Jump to content

Underage/minors


Recommended Posts

A laudable aim to eliminate child abuse in the Phils.

 

If it's as big a problem as it's frequently reported to be, why isn't there a far bigger effort to track it down and punish the culprits.

 

Just a very small number of arrests and convictions reported every year. 

That suggests a lack of interest.

 

It doesn't need a Draconian RA7610 law to get the job done.

(Using RA7610 would be OK too, if it was based on evidence or at least just cause)

Surely there is enough other applicable law to deal with the problem.

 

What it mainly needs is the will, effective policing, intelligence gathering and effort on the part of the relevant authorities.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 384
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • HTM

    91

  • SkyMan

    32

  • Cipro

    31

  • USMC-Retired

    31

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Why all this interest in Underage/Minors ? As I see it, the law may not be well written (very few are) but it is quite clear So it puzzles me why so many mature aged guys are getting all worked up o

I think it's important to keep a sense of perspective here.   Contrary to what a lot of posters seem to believe, the Filipinos are not out to get us.   Perhaps over consumption of cheap alcohol ca

We have three kids of our own, 3.5,8.10..all boys,also raise the wife's two younger siblings girl 13..boy 19.....the house is always full of their friends...almost never a time during the day, especia

Posted Images

Tullioz

Then you haven't read my posts and you just refuse to acknowledge you're wrong.  It has happened.

 

I haven't read a post where you mentioned someone meeting a kid on a beach, begging for money and food and that person taking pity on them and taking them to Jolly Bee and buying them a meal. Then going back to the beach to chat with them trying to figure out how to help them solve there problems and someone thinking that person was a pedophile and they were reported, arrested, and incarcerated. If you did, I am sorry, but I missed that one. 

 

 

So your solution is to come up with a bullshit law that says we can arrest anyone anytime for being near a kid with no proof of anything other than they were near a kid.  That is utter hogwash.

 

It is not that simple, there are procedures that are followed. A person will not be swept off the street and hauled off to jail if they are simply in the company of a minor. There are several steps involved before an actual arrest is made. Below is a link with information that explains this process. This will hopefully ease some people's minds here.

 

Protocol for Case Management of Child Victims of Abuse, Neglect, and Exploitation

https://www.doj.gov.ph/files/transparency_seal/2016-Jan/CPN-CSPC%20Protocol%2026Nov2014.pdf

 

 

Edited by Tullioz
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

A person will not be swept off the street and hauled off to jail if they are simply in the company of a minor.

 

Oh, so the law is not strictly enforced then?

 

WHY NOT?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Tullioz

Oh, so the law is not strictly enforced then?

 

WHY NOT?

 

Because the purpose of RA 7610 is to protect against child abuse, exploitation, and discrimination. If someone is in the presence of a minor under normal everyday circumstances, there are no laws broken. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Tullioz

So I get arrested and incarcerated. - no evidence needed, just someone's opinion?

Is my action  "the performance of a social, moral or legal duty" ? - who decides? -  When?

 

How soon after I am incarcerated can I get this sorted out and the case dismissed by a judge?

 

Same day?, a day or two in jail later? When?.... Why not same day?

 

I know I responded to this in an earlier post, but here is a more detailed answer to the questions you asked. 

 

Annex K: Implementing Rules and Regulations of Republic Act 7610 on Reporting and Investigation of Child Abuse Cases
 
Sec. 21. Speedy Trial of Child Abuse Cases. – The trial of child abuse shall take precedence over all cases before the courts, except election and habeas corpus cases. The trial in said cases shall commence within three (3) days from the date the accused is arraigned and no postponement of the child initial hearing shall be granted except on account of the illness of the accused or other grounds beyond his control.
 

 

 

Edited by Tullioz
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
RogerDuMond

 

 

charged by the police

 

The PNP station police do not charge, they take a report and if a warrant is issued, they arrest.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Because the purpose of RA 7610 is to protect against child abuse, exploitation, and discrimination. If someone is in the presence of a minor under normal everyday circumstances, there are no laws broken. 

 

That's oxymoronic. You clearly know the letter of the law was broken, you just don't want to admit it, so halfway along you jump the tracks and start talking about "the purpose" of the law. News flash: The purpose of the law is to secure money from fat international sources.

 

Now try to focus: Why is the letter of the law not strictly enforced?

 

 

 

Free hint: Because the letter of the law does not accurately reflect the stated intent of the law. In other words, it's very badly framed, AKA f*cking broken. 

Edited by Cipro
Link to post
Share on other sites
Tullioz

That's oxymoronic. You clearly know the letter of the law was broken, you just don't want to admit it, so halfway along you jump the tracks and start talking about "the purpose" of the law. News flash: The purpose of the law is to secure money from fat international sources.

 

The reason I mentioned the purpose of the law is because that is the most important part about understanding how this law works. Normal everyday interactions with minors by adults is not illegal. If your train of thought was correct, then there would be thousands of people getting picked up every year for violating this law. This is getting repetitive, but history proves that this law is not being abused and is working exactly as it was intended. 

 

I will post this again, but under the rule of statutory construction you can not take a single line out of a law without taking its entire context into consideration. That is why I mentioned the purpose of the law in my previous comment. 

 

It is a rule in statutory construction that every part of the statute must be interpreted with reference to the context, i.e., that every part of the statute must be considered together with the other parts, and kept subservient to the general intent of the whole enactment. Because the law must not be read in truncated parts, its provisions must be read in relation to the whole law. The statute's clauses and phrases must not, consequently, be taken as detached and isolated expressions, but the whole and every part thereof must be considered in fixing the meaning of any of its parts in order to produce a harmonious whole. Consistent with the fundamentals of statutory construction, all the words in the statute must be taken into consideration in order to ascertain its meaning.

 

http://sc.judiciary.gov.ph/jurisprudence/2010/june2010/183517.htm

 

So in relation to your comment below:

 

 the letter of the law does not accurately reflect the stated intent of the law.

 

When read in its full context, the letter of the law does in fact accurately reflect its stated intent and purpose. 

Edited by Tullioz
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

When read in its full context, the letter of the law does in fact accurately reflect its stated intent and purpose

Yes you can not just read a line of a law and interpreting the law based on that line.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
SkyMan

 

 

Sorry but I do not see it as a bullshit law, either can I see someone being imprisoned for normal contact with children
Then I can only assume it's because English isn't your first language which is not intended as an insult, just a fact.  Either that or you're naively assume all cops are really nice people and would never take advantage of a poorly written law.  A poor and dangerous assumption.

 

And if bullshit laws put innocent in jail then US must have many bullshit laws. "About 10,000 people in the United States may be wrongfully convicted of serious crimes each year"

 

The study also found that the most important factor leading to wrongful conviction is eyewitness misidentification.
Your own post shows the convicted innocent (I absolutely don't believe 10K) are likely convicted due to bad witnesses, not bad laws.  If anything, badly written laws in the US let the guilty off.

 

I haven't read a post where you mentioned someone meeting a kid on a beach, begging for money and food and that person taking pity on them and taking them to Jolly Bee and buying them a meal. Then going back to the beach to chat with them trying to figure out how to help them solve there problems and someone thinking that person was a pedophile and they were reported, arrested, and incarcerated. If you did, I am sorry, but I missed that one. 
No, I didn't.  I posted about a guy picked up and held/interrogated for hours for taking his nieces out for ice cream.  They continued to hold him even after their mother showed up identifying herself as their mother and him as her BIL and stating this is quite normal.  He was not released until he told them he had no money with which to bribe them.  And the worst part is he is related to the girls and therefore exempt from RA7610 anyway and yet this crap still went on.  I would bet there are MANY other instances of such abuse but they don't show up in the papers because the guys wisely payoff than fight this BULLSHIT law.  So now Tulli, you can't say you haven't heard of any abuse of the law.  

 

It is not that simple, there are procedures that are followed. A person will not be swept off the street and hauled off to jail if they are simply in the company of a minor.
That's how it happened to my friend so you are wrong again.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Tullioz

No, I didn't.  I posted about a guy picked up and held/interrogated for hours for taking his nieces out for ice cream.  They continued to hold him even after their mother showed up identifying herself as their mother and him as her BIL and stating this is quite normal.  He was not released until he told them he had no money with which to bribe them.  And the worst part is he is related to the girls and therefore exempt from RA7610 anyway and yet this crap still went on.  I would bet there are MANY other instances of such abuse but they don't show up in the papers because the guys wisely payoff than fight this BULLSHIT law.  So now Tulli, you can't say you haven't heard of any abuse of the law.  

 

That's how it happened to my friend so you are wrong again.

 

 

Based on what you have said here my statement was not wrong, it doesn't sound like your friend was arrested and/or hauled off to jail for violating RA 7610, questioned and inconvenienced maybe, but that's about it. If your friend was being held in an attempt to extort money from him, he should have filed a complaint following this incident. It is more likely that the authorities were just being extra cautious and wanted to be certain that the children were not in any danger. I am not doubting the story, but you are only presenting a one sided second hand account which leaves out a lot of details. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Then I can only assume it's because English isn't your first language which is not intended as an insult, just a fact. Either that or you're naively assume all cops are really nice people and would never take advantage of a poorly written law. A poor and dangerous assumption.

There is also another possibility, and that is that you do not understand the interpretation and meaning of the law, and how the justice system works and laws are interpreted here in the Philippines. How things are interpreted elsewhere is totally unimportant.
 

I still have not met a single police officer, lawyer or judge who interprets the law as you do. Indirect you interpret the law like that 90 +% of the adult population can be arrested almost daily for violation of RA 7610.
I prefer to relate to reality and how the law is used and interpreted here, everything else is unimportant silly in this context.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

The law is not only for foreigners

For sure . In this case a badly written law includes everyone 

Link to post
Share on other sites
mikewright

If a tourist came to your country and told you how to draft laws to suit how he interacted with minors, guess what the reaction would be.

 

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

For sure . In this case a badly written law includes everyone

So you claim the law would have been better if it were only for foreigners, interesting point of view, strange but interesting...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use, Privacy Policy and Guidelines. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue..

Capture.JPG

I Understand...