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SkyMan

Is an adult riding a jeepney with a bunch of minors as passengers suspicious? Is a man riding a motorcycle with a minor in tow suspicious? Does an adult sitting with a minor at McDonald's raise suspicion? Does an adult talking to a group of students in a park raise suspicion? Of course not, these are day to day activities and we see them every time we go out in public. If it were a "sh*t law" as you say, then the jails would be overflowing with innocent adults being charged for being alone with minors. Since this is not the case, then the law is being used exactly as it was intended. 

Is a guy taking his nieces out for ice cream which he's done every week for months seem suspicious?  No?  Does the fact their mother arrived at the police station to identify the girls and their uncle and attest to the normalcy of the outing failed to appease the police seem suspicious?  Oh yes it does.  Does the fact the police only let him go when he told them he had no money for a bribe seem like this law is being used for extortion?  Oh yes it does.  Can Tullioz or HTM tell the difference between a shiit law and shinola?  Not a fuggin chance.  It is in no way a benefit to have a law that basically can be used to easily put anyone in a very bad situation in order to protect children.  If the police could do a proper job of investigating there would be no need for this complete shit law.

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Why all this interest in Underage/Minors ? As I see it, the law may not be well written (very few are) but it is quite clear So it puzzles me why so many mature aged guys are getting all worked up o

I think it's important to keep a sense of perspective here.   Contrary to what a lot of posters seem to believe, the Filipinos are not out to get us.   Perhaps over consumption of cheap alcohol ca

We have three kids of our own, 3.5,8.10..all boys,also raise the wife's two younger siblings girl 13..boy 19.....the house is always full of their friends...almost never a time during the day, especia

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SkyMan

 

 

BTW when they got the video and sworn testimony evidence that they couldn't possibly have committed the crime from NBI, that was the time they was released, they didn't have that early or from the start.
Sso then you're saying it took 16 days for them to take a picture of Erik and his gf to the Waterfront hotel and ask if they were checking out of the hotel at the time they said they were and to review the video clearly showing them there at the time.  Do you realize who inept that makes them?  And then if that is the case then why was the Cebu police chief fired by the governor for withholding evidence in the case?  Maybe you need to go review all that documentation you have on the case because it doesn't wash.
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And then if that is the case then why was the Cebu police chief fired by the governor for withholding evidence in the case?

WOW, more new info for me,pleas give a link to this.

My memory of what happen to Digal is quite different.

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It is in no way a benefit to have a law that basically can be used to easily put anyone in a very bad situation in order to protect children. If the police could do a proper job of investigating there would be no need for this complete shit law.

 

ooh well  I think  you should call the senate/senator and ask to have the law removed

maybe you should call du30 on that special number

lets see how that will work out

Edited by Woolf
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mikewright
Can Tullioz or HTM tell the difference between a shiit law and shinola? Not a fuggin chance. It is in no way a benefit to have a law that basically can be used to easily put anyone in a very bad situation in order to protect children.

 

It's not so much a matter of how members of LinC interpret the legislation, but rather how the legislation works in practice. Whether we like the legislation or not, (and I do), it's going to be how the Courts here interpret it and how the police enforce it. 

 

Any law can be abused, in any country, whether through over zealousness, corruption, etc, and probably will be at some time or other. Doesn't make it a bad law though, just a bad official. As Tullioz indicated, the law has been around for several decades, and in practice it seems to be working as intended. If there were widespread abuse of the law I'm sure we would have factual accounts of numerous people being wrongly arrested over the last few decades, but that doesn't seem to be the experience of LinC members. With the experience on this board, you would expect numerous factual reports if the law were being abused, but that hasn't happened.

 

In 20-odd years, I've only been questioned once, when travelling alone with my daughter who was a minor at the time. Not a problem, they questioned me, questioned her, looked at our papers, smiled and sent us on our way. They were doing their job, and did it well. No complaints from me.

 

To me, it's the old advice, if you don't like the laws of a country, don't go there.  Or if you do go, use a bit of common sense, and leave minors alone.

Edited by mikewright
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RogerDuMond

 

 

If the police could do a proper job of investigating there would be no need for this complete shit law.

 

That is not part of their job.

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.... if you do go, use a bit of common sense, and leave minors alone.

 

 

And don't buy any icecream. :rolleyes:

 

 

Again, lax enforcement doesn't fix a broken law, and yes, any law that attempts to outlaw behavior that's not in and of itself harmful is a broken law. We do tolerate this to some degree in highly restricted circumstances, but those restriction cannot be left up to the discretion of potentially corrupt LEOs, they must be encoded into the law itself. 

 

An example of a law that's on the edge in a civil country would be a drunk driving law; a drunk driver has not yet harmed anyone, but there is a pile of science that says they are likely to, and the circumstances under which they can be picked up are very specific, and the crime of drunk driving is treated much differently than the crime of vehicular manslaughter. 

 

 

None of those factors are present in RA7610; it is the equivalent of charging everyone who owns both a beer and a car with vehicular manslaughter "for the children". 

Edited by Cipro
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That is not part of their job.

 

"Well THERE's your problem!" - Every mechanic ever

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This why I said earlier that unless someone is planning on abusing a minor or they are already doing so, there is no need to start worrying about this law now. It has been on the books since 1992, and it has not been used to round up innocent adults to date. If a person is a decent human being and not messing around with underage girls/boys, there is really nothing for them to worry about. On the other hand, if a person is messing around with minors, then they have a lot to worry about and rightfully so.

I dont think being "a decent human being" and innocent can keep a foreigner here worry free from the laws . "Not been used to round up innocent adults" ... No one is saying its a witch hunt . The worries and issues are being at the wrong place at the wrong time with the fickle imagination of the local authorities to decide our (any foreigner) fate . Dont forget the added lure of corruption and possible bribe situation that is everywhere here. Especially with laws  that arent black and white and open to grey areas of interpertation by the officials and police and citizens in a country with an average I.Q. of 86 . Foreigners will always be placed under added scrutiny by the officials and powers that be and need to  worry about even looking guilty much less being so (this appearance of guilt can include taking your girlfriends kids to jollibees) And what about the scenarios that members of this forum have mentioned about a nosey security guard or local employee asking a question or two when a foreigner is at the mall or restaurant with his kids or relatives ?  So what if he doesnt go to jail and nothing becomes of it . Doesnt the added scrutiny and having to answer questions have something to do with a foreigner having reason to worry when hes totally innocent ? In this place? When the president of the country itself has made  bad comments and terrible generalities to the press about americans and pedophiles ....I had a policeman hit up my cabbie while we were eating lunch in parking lot (many other cars beside us) waiting for road construction to clear(it wasnt illegal where we were parked) . Ended up paying 50 peso bribe/ticket for being parked there . Right and wrong and being a "decent human being" had nothing to do with my guilt or innocence .This is because a white guy was sitting in the cab . Period . Foreigners are not considered equal to locals here and dont get the luxury of playing by the same rules . Law abiding or not . Or is being a nice guy with good intentions gonna keep you safe and worry free ?         You help many with your work and volunteering and i know your intentions are good . You also have many thoughtful and knowledgable posts . I just dont see how you can believe and promote that being  innocent and  good will always prevail here and should keep you worry free from the laws and their enforcement of in the philippines

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USMC-Retired

That is not part of their job.

Police do not investigate?

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Tullioz

I dont think being "a decent human being" and innocent can keep a foreigner here worry free from the laws . "Not been used to round up innocent adults" ... No one is saying its a witch hunt . The worries and issues are being at the wrong place at the wrong time with the fickle imagination of the local authorities to decide our (any foreigner) fate . Dont forget the added lure of corruption and possible bribe situation that is everywhere here. Especially with laws  that arent black and white and open to grey areas of interpertation by the officials and police and citizens in a country with an average I.Q. of 86 . Foreigners will always be placed under added scrutiny by the officials and powers that be and need to  worry about even looking guilty much less being so (this appearance of guilt can include taking your girlfriends kids to jollibees)

 

I feel that history shows that the fears above are not warranted when it comes to RA 7610.  How many times do we read about this law being used against a foreigner in the news each year? 8, 10, 12? And of those times, how many of those arrested were doing something to raise suspicion? How many were actually guilty of something far worse than just being alone with a minor? Not every story gets reported of course, but even then, when you consider the number of foreigners who live, work, and visit this country annually, it is clear that the law is not being abused or used to target foreigners. 

 

And what about the scenarios that members of this forum have mentioned about a nosey security guard or local employee asking a question or two when a foreigner is at the mall or restaurant with his kids or relatives ?  So what if he doesnt go to jail and nothing becomes of it . Doesnt the added scrutiny and having to answer questions have something to do with a foreigner having reason to worry when hes totally innocent In this place?

 

 I actually like the idea of security guards or employees asking a few questions when they see a foreigner with a minor. There is a big problem in this country when it comes to child abuse and sexual exploitation of minors, and unfortunately foreigners have been a large part of that problem over the years. Being questioned as a parent or relative of a minor should be comforting to most.

 

I am sure if your child had been abducted and taken to another island, you would be thanking that nosey security guard or local employee who tipped off the authorities when things didn't seem quite right when they questioned the person who had your child at the mall or other public place.

 

Law abiding or not . Or is being a nice guy with good intentions gonna keep you safe and worry free ?

 

No good intention goes unpunished ;)

Edited by Tullioz
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Some of you forget where you are!
The PNP has not the resources here that we are accustomed with for the police in our home countrys.

Some examples that you maybe don't know
First this year it was opened a modern crime laboratory for the Visayas region her in Cebu, and soon they handle all the tests.
Before the crime scene forensic evidence was send to Manila. (1-6 week delay)

Three years ago they had here in CebuC only one vehicle per police station.
And very limited budget for fuel
It was and still is quite common that police officers use their private vehicles to perform their duties. This without any compensation for the use of private vehicles.

They had/have only 2-3 handheld communications radios per station, most partially defective. Many have purchased private radios for their own safety and efficiency out on assignments in the fields.
In 2011 could not CPPS call international calls, even to Manila they had to order the call manually.

How effective had the police in your home countries been with only one vehicle per 25k inhabitants, and without effective communications equipment?
 

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SkyMan
WOW, more new info for me,pleas give a link to this. My memory of what happen to Digal is quite different.

 

As I remember Digal resign, Gwen did not fired him.

When the boss gives you the opportunity to resign instead of being fired in disgrace you resign.  Same thing.

 

ooh well  I think  you should call the senate/senator and ask to have the law removed

maybe you should call du30 on that special number

lets see how that will work out

My point in posting is that others read this forum and if they see Harry or Tulli posting there's nothing to worry about they could be in extreme danger unwittingly.

 

Any law can be abused, in any country, whether through over zealousness, corruption, etc, and probably will be at some time or other. Doesn't make it a bad law though, just a bad official.

But then why leave the door wide open?  Or maybe just make the law that anyone can be arrested whenever we feel like it and then it's wide out in the open instead of trying to hide it in some protection of minors bs.

 

 

it is clear that the law is not being abused or used to target foreigners. 

But it just takes one time to make your life hell, one time.

Edited by SkyMan
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When the boss gives you the opportunity to resign instead of being fired in disgrace you resign. Same thing.

That was not the case! He did that before Gwen was able to do that. Thinking that that was smarter for his record, but it was not.

Digital waiting that time that he would receive his star on the shoulder. from rank as Senior Superintendent to Chief Superintendent.
Instead PRO-7 gave him and some other of CPPO what is called a floating position.
As of today five years later, Digal is still a Senior Superintendent.

But this was is a decisions of PNP central, not from politicians. it also shows that the police can not do whatever they want here without consequences.
BTW- PRO-7 has also apologized in writing to Erik and Karin.

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