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Plus day to day savings due to less power needs required to operate.

 

 

I do not understand,   less power needs  ?

less than what ?

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James, first you need to design your pump system / requirements knowing your flow rate and head pressure etc., so you can determine your total power requirements. As an estimate you will need approx.

Try a company called Interlock.  they specialize in water pumps.   NEW INTERLOCK SALES & SERVICES Door No. 3 NGS building, M. J. Cuenco Avenue. Mabolo, Cebu City 6000 Philippines Tel nos. (032)

There are two issues I am facing with the grid power to this small island. One is regular brownouts some lasting two or three days. In the ten weeks I have been here we have had more than ten days wit

 

 

and emailed each a list of my pumps and their output requirements.

 

You ARE an optimist, I'll say!

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go to YouTube and type James Musslewhite lobster

 

Or, click HERE

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JamesMusslewhite

I do not understand,   less power needs  ?

less than what ?

Quite simple really. 9 pumps circulating 23,000 gallons (84,000 liters) of saltwater through the filters, 3 aerator pumps, 1 in-tank circulating pump, air compressors, in-line UV sterilizers and overhead lighting all wired on 240v running continuous 24/7 for a month in a country with one of the highest utility rates in this region using a larger fuel generator as power back up. Vs. the same number of pumps and equipment all running on 24v and 12v using battery backup of solar panels, wind generators and tidal generators running 24/7 for a month and only needing a small generator as a backup. Which would actually cost more for monthly operation?

 

Now consider if there is long-term brownout conditions due line damage say from a tropical storm or earthquake. A 240v setup requiring a larger fuel generator to keep the operation going which require many 55gallon barrels of fuel held on standby and during constant operation would require constant refueling meaning 55gal barrels being constantly transported back and forth from the city to this little island. Or a 24v 12v setup running primarily on solar, wind and tidal wind power generation already free of the local power grid that would only need a much smaller generator only as a power backup to run the operation and recharge the battery backup on occasion?    

 

The 24v 12v setup would make me independent of the local power grid and would require a much smaller more fuel efficient fuel generation requiring much less running time and fuel consumption. This is what I meant when I said less power needs. 

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Ok I understand that you want to be off grid

 

You could use an invertor to bring your 12/24 volt to 220/240 ac

then you could use pumps that could be easier to get,

cheaper and maybe more efficient 

 

Have you calculated approx how many watt

you will need ?

 

This has to run 24/7, I guess

 

Edit:

 

You also have to calculate in the cost of higher dimension

wiring, copper aint cheap

Edited by Woolf
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Which would actually cost more for monthly operation?

 

It's funny you asked that.

 

The magic number will be about $.50¢ / kWh, where it starts becoming just as cheap to go off-grid. Unless you are paying that, use the grid as much as possible.

 

You have grid power there? If so, try researching grid-tied and hybrid systems. The best option for you would be a grid-tied system with battery backup. A generator can be used for extended days of rain, to keep the batteries charged.

Edited by Paul
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3 aerator pumps,

 

Could you possibly add venturis to some of the water pumps, to kill the need of some of your air pumps?

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Ozepete

James, first you need to design your pump system / requirements knowing your flow rate and head pressure etc., so you can determine your total power requirements.

As an estimate you will need approx. one watt of power per ten liters per hour pumped.

Your five largest pumps will therefore consume approx. 7500 watts per hour running regardless of the supply voltage.

Once you establish your total power requirement then you can correctly consider supply options, and alternatives are going to be very expensive and also not reliable as a base load. Storage such large reserves will be a huge cost and ongoing.

Don't want to be a party pooper but there really are no easy alternatives for the volumes you require, unfortunately!

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Your five largest pumps will therefore consume approx. 7500 watts per hour running regardless of the supply voltage.

 

 

7500 watt @ 12 volt  = 625 amps

7500 watt @ 24 volt  = 313 amps

That is going to take some heavy copper wire 

buss bars maybe

 

7500 watt @ 220 volts = 34 amps

Still a good size wire

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As an estimate you will need approx. one watt of power per ten liters per hour pumped.

 

Never looked at it from that angle. My aquaponics system is currently about 15 to 1. Adding a second pump and the grow beds, should change it to about 20 to 1. Of course, these are much smaller pumps, and lower flow rates.

 

Thanks, Peter.

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to_dave007

Plus you should calculate battery storage requirements to sustain the pumps on the island in the event of grid power failure..  How long will you wish to keep the pumps going strictly on battery power? Is there a degraded mode you can tolerate to reduce power requirement?  that list of pumps will require quite a bit of battery power to keep the pumps running over night...  let alone for several days without direct sunlight after a typhoon takes out the local grid.  How long can you tolerate the pumps shutting down before the lobster die?

 

Batteries cost money to buy initially, PLUS they have a limited life.  So you'll need to think of batteries as BOTH an initial cost, AND an annual cost.

 

I've not priced batteries, but others here have.

 

Seems to me that ALL the costs (pumps, copper, battery, solar panel and more) will be directly related to how much water you'll need to pump..  I'm not an expert but it got me thinking of the offshore fish farms I've read about on west coast of Canada and Norway, where the fish farm just "floats" in the ocean, rising and falling with the tide, and relying on natural ocean currents to flush out the shit and bring in clean water.  It made me want to ask what use you are making of the natural tides and local currents to help you with water "pumping". In fact I thought I read about floating fish or lobster tanks with a PVC frame in one of your earlier threads.  So why the need to pump so much water now?

 

Maybe it's totally unrelated..  but how sensitive are the lobster to temperature variations in the water? 

Edited by to_dave007
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7.5 kw/h

24 hours

30 days

 

7.5x24x30 = 5400 kw/h

 

@ 10 peso per kw/h

 

= 54000 PHP

Edited by Woolf
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JamesMusslewhite

There are two issues I am facing with the grid power to this small island. One is regular brownouts some lasting two or three days. In the ten weeks I have been here we have had more than ten days with brownouts. Also the ability of the system to handle the working load of all the pumps, aerators and lighting as we are on the very tail end of the wire with many other residence hood to the feed. There has been two blown transformers since we have been here and I have not even hooked the facility to the grid yet. The power lines are coming through the twisting mangroves with some poles being actually set in the marshy mangroves. A heavy tropical storm could knock out power here for months is lines or poles are down and the repair crews would first work on the lines in the city and work their way outward and here we are in the boonies.

 

Lobster larva are voracious eaters and cannibalistic and require a well aerated swirling water to keep them in a state of movement. They are keep in a proverbial soup of brine shrimp copepods, rotifers so they will choose an easier meal then each other but if the water becomes stagnant they can easily control their movement and turn on each other. This means 300,000 larvae can easily deplete to half numbers in just one day and be in numbers of only a couple of thousand 3-5 days. This is not even considering losses or damage of larvae due to lack of proper oxygen levels. Literally a whole crop would be lost in less than a week. I would also quickly lose vast amounts of brine shrimp, shrimp, copepods, and rotifers being raised in saltwater tanks. The system must be able to run independent of the power grid for long extended periods of time (weeks even months). The system must be a closed circulation system to control water temperatures, solidity and pH levels due to regular heavy rainfall which quickly turns the surrounding waters brackish greatly altering temps, solidity and pH levels. Lobster larva are highly sensitive and great losses would be quick if I relied on direct saltwater pumping from the sea. Plus lobster and shrimp will not be the only crustaceans I intend to be working with. Even if everything is perfect from my research over the years of papers published by other renown lobster hatcheries 30-70% loses are expected due to their sensitivities, but in closed circulation systems that are well aerated and filtered using UV light sterilization can consistently yield 80-87% success rates. Larvae survival in the wild is believed to be less than 3%. There is a reason a lobster female can release over 1.6 million eggs a year.   

Edited by JamesMusslewhite
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to_dave007

Given these factors, what makes this remote island location, with poor power reliability, a good location for this lobster hatchery?

 

Does it help you if you separately consider how to:

 - CIRCULATE or MOVE the water (this is the one that MUST be continuous, and could be accomplished without pumping water)

 - AERATE the water (you likely have more time to restore this if power interrupted)

 - FLUSH the water (and even more time to accomplish this)

Edited by to_dave007
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