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Tatoosh

Abortion - Advice on How

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Tatoosh

Abortion is illegal here, but that doesn't mean it isn't practiced. ABS-CBN reported a police raid outside the Quiapo Church in Manila where vendors were selling remedies that are supposed to induce a miscarriage. <Report Here> So while some consider it a sin and others consider it illegal, some must consider it a necessity.

 

The rules between guys and girls have been running for a long long time. I don't think we are going to change them much unless we decide to emulate the Taliban and some other Mid-Eastern cultures that make the penalty draconian for indulging in sex without the benefit of marriage. And as much as you may find the guy desicable, it took two to tango.

Edited by Bob Ward
Moved here from another thread where it was OT. RBS started this thread but this post was dated earlier than his!

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RBS

Please refrain from discussing the moral and/or ethical issues on abortion in this thread. If you wish to discuss that, start another thread in the appropriate section.

 

This thread has been started after obtaining permission from Bob. Thank you Bob. I'll try and tread carefully and accept the flack, so here goes.

 

My personal believes are against abortion in most circumstances. However, I also believe in not trying to impose my believes on others who may hold different opinions to my own. According to WHO research, between 3% and 6% of all pregnancies in the Philippines are terminated. The Philippines has one of the highest rates of pregnancy terminations in the world (excluding China). As such, I believe it is not something that we can just pretend should not be discussed in this topic.

 

A few years ago, I was approached by a young Filipina (14yo) whom I knew well. She believed she was pregnant from an incestuous pack rape involving her older brother and a cousin (both of whom were married with children of their own). She could not discuss this with her family and was unwilling to report the matter to the authorities.

 

What I have learned:

 

The first thing to do when a girl believes that she is pregnant is for her to have an ultrasound examination. This will confirm the pregnancy (much more accurate than all other tests), determine the location of the foetus and give a good indication of the age of the foetus. This examination can be performed at most good hospitals and should cost between P2,000 to P4,000 (2008).

 

With this information, the girl can then discuss with her healthcare provider which option to take. Basically there are two options available-

  • Continue with the pregnancy.
  • Terminate the pregnancy.

There are risks to the girl associated with either choice. Generally, if foetal development is less than 60 days, proper termination (not a "backyard" job) presents the lessor risk to the girl. Between 60 to 90 days, the risks are about equal. After 90 days termination is a greater risk to the girl than birth.

 

If the decision is made to terminate the pregnancy, there are a further two main methods to consider:

 

NOTE: All forms of abortion, for whatever reason, are illegal in the Philippines (2008).

 

1. Clinical Abortion

When properly performed, this method involves vacuum aspiration of the foetus. It is about 99% effective with about 3% requiring further medical treatment.

 

Abortion clinics are located in most major towns and probably all cities in the Philippines. The problem is finding them and ensuring that it is a reputable one. The better method of locating a good clinic is to consult with a healthcare professional. This may involve consulting with a few until one is found who is willing to point in the right direction.

 

The cost of a good clinical abortion is between P10,000 to P25,000 (2008) depending on the location of the clinic and the services provided. The actual procedure should take less than 30 minutes plus precautionary antibiotics and a check-up a week or two later.

2. Medical Abortion

A medical abortion is performed using a combination of drugs like Mifepristone and Misoprostol (RU-486). These are as safe or safer than a properly performed clinical abortion up to foetal development of about 60 days. The success rate is about 95% with about 5% requiring further medical treatment.

 

The first drug is taken to kill the foetus. This is later followed by a course of the second drug that induces menstrual bleeding to "flush out" the aborted foetus. This procedure should not be undertaken without first consulting with a healthcare provider. If the girl has certain other medical conditions, the use of these drugs would not be recommended.

 

Drugs for medical abortion are readily available (although not publicly promoted) in the Philippines. With a little investigation on the internet, contact numbers for procurement can be found. The problem with this method of procurement is the worry about the quality of the medication and lack of obtaining proper medical advice prior to using the drugs.

 

An alternative source can also be found on the internet by searching for an organisation "womenonweb". This organisation is based in the Netherlands and they ship the drugs from India. Their service costs EUR70.00 (2008) including an on-line medical consultation and courier delivery to your door in the Philippines.

Whatever method is chosen for pregnancy termination, budget on possibly having to pay tens of thousands of pesos extra if their are complications. Do not hesitate in seeking medical attention if complications develop. Such complications are relatively common in the Philippines and most hospitals/medical clinics are quite use to dealing with them with no legal repercussions.

Edited by RBS

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Bob Ward

No, thank you for following a suggestion not to go off on that tangent in a thread meant to discuss a certain girl's situation and also how Filipinas in general could be educated on how to prevent that same situation rather than what to do afterward. It was appreciated!

 

My first reaction to your post in general is that if you look at the costs associated with the services you suggest, they are cost prohibitive for the vast majority of Filipinas and their families. Therein lies the root of the problem.

Edited by Bob Ward

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poby
My personal believes are against abortion in most circumstances. However, I also believe in not trying to impose my believes on others who may hold different opinions to my own. According to WHO research, between 3% and 6% of all pregnancies in the Philippines are terminated. The Philippines has one of the highest rates of pregnancy terminations in the world (excluding China). As such, I believe it is not something that we can just pretend should not be discussed in this topic.

 

That surprises me and I find it quite ironic that a country where abortion is illegal actually has a higher termination rate than most other countries where it is perfectly legal and allowed (and government subsidised in many cases). It seems sometimes the law can have the opposite to it's intended effect.

 

Thank you for posting especially in such a factual and non-judgemental manner.

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Tatoosh

RBS, I respect your personal views and I agree with the problem when faced with a situation like the one described with the 14 year old (on the previous thread). Tragic circumstances and consequences. After they reach a certain age, mother has told them that guys lie and that the way you tell is if their lips are moving. If they choose to ignore that warning there can be consequences. But that is not the situation all the time.

 

There are no "safe" alternatives in the Philippines, but abortions are performed in the metro areas routinely and I am told it is not uncommon in many provinces. By safe I mean either unlikely to harm the individual physically or put her in legal jeparody. Women sometimes turn to herbs and potions, there are the backstreet psuedo medical types, and then I suppose a few real doctors, but those will be far and few between given the consequences of getting caught and if not prosecuted then at least blackmailed.

 

It seems to me that approaching an uninvolved kano would be the last thing a Filipina would do unless she had other motives. Now trying to locate a deadbeat dad is different, but the native girls will have a much better idea where to find what services are available in their area than most any kano. Sadly a trip to Thailand or another country with a more progressive view is usually out of the question for most of the young women involved.

 

I don't mean to argue the right or wrong of anything here. Just that noting what I have seen or heard.

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A_Simple_Man
The cost of a good clinical abortion is between P10,000 to P25,000 (2008)

 

I know of one American man who was involved with a 21 yr old filipina this past January. She got pregnant and she found out that a relatively safe abortion could be obtained for 10,000 Pesos. She asked the man for that amount of money. He was only too happy to pay it and get the heck out of that situation. Many months later we found out that she had the baby anyway, and it wasn't his. It was the child of a different American. So I wonder how many other men paid her 10,000 Pesos. The moral is to be very wary. This can and does get used as a scam.

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smokey
I know of one American man who was involved with a 21 yr old filipina this past January. She got pregnant and she found out that a relatively safe abortion could be obtained for 10,000 Pesos. She asked the man for that amount of money. He was only too happy to pay it and get the heck out of that situation. Many months later we found out that she had the baby anyway, and it wasn't his. It was the child of a different American. So I wonder how many other men paid her 10,000 Pesos. The moral is to be very wary. This can and does get used as a scam.

 

 

 

 

 

 

that is just one of 1.000,000 scams and the list just keeps getting bigger ..

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RBS
....

My first reaction to your post in general is that if you look at the costs associated with the services you suggest, they are cost prohibitive for the vast majority of Filipinas and their families. Therein lies the root of the problem.

Quite so.

 

I have heard that a "backyard" abortion can be procured for as little as P2,000 to P4,000. Still quite a sum for many poorer Filipino families. If an abortion is to be performed, my recommendation would be to obtain the best that you can - within your means.

 

.... I find it quite ironic that a country where abortion is illegal actually has a higher termination rate than most other countries where it is perfectly legal and allowed (and government subsidised in many cases). It seems sometimes the law can have the opposite to it's intended effect. ....

I believe this irony is bought about by the belief of many Filipinas (particularly the less educated ones) that oral contraceptives are extremely dangerous and/or ineffective. This could account for the relatively low usage rate of this form of birth control in the Philippines.

 

Those countries where abortion is legal, tend to also have an enlightened society where oral contraceptives are used at a much higher rate. This could go partly towards the cause of such a high rate of pregnancy terminations in the Philippines.

 

.... It seems to me that approaching an uninvolved kano would be the last thing a Filipina would do unless she had other motives. ....

Normally I would agree with you here, however the girl I was referring to became fatherless at 6yo and was disowned by her mother (for reasons I will not go into here) at 12yo. I have been her de facto father since she was 10yo. She was in effect, turning to the closest family support that she had.

Edited by RBS

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til
I believe this irony is bought about by the belief of many Filipinas (particularly the less educated ones) that oral contraceptives are extremely dangerous and/or ineffective. This could account for the relatively low usage rate of this form of birth control in the Philippines.

 

Those countries where abortion is legal, tend to also have an enlightened society where oral contraceptives are used at a much higher rate. This could go partly towards the cause of such a high rate of pregnancy terminations in the Philippines.

Also a lot of countries where abortion is illegal (including the Philippines) are very catholic, which means birth control is also frowned upon. So my guess is: less birth control equals more abortions. And it seems that the legal considerations are pretty much the last thing a woman considering abortion is worried about. I think the biggest issues are moral questions and the view of personal situation (how will my life be, if i have a kid?).

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breakfast

OK time let my hair down a bit here

 

I have an MBBS(hons)

 

I met my babe last year in a city in PI

 

And the day after became an issue pertinent to this thread...

 

At home, it's easy, you get a "morning after pill" (MAP), a high dose hormone pill, preventing implantation of the conceptus

 

But what to do in the PI when you're in a jam?

 

I'll post my improvisation, off the record, strictly. No liability. If you want to know the risks, ASK. Emergency contraception is TIME LIMITED. Best in 24 HOURS after the fact. MAX 72 hours, and the probability of it working drops past the first 24 hours appreciably.

 

There are several ways to "Emergency contraception".

 

Basically, your best shot is buying the USUAL oral contraceptive pill in the PI. No script required. This is BECAUSE you cannot buy emergency contraception. BUT they still sell the same drugs, but in a different form.

 

The principle is emergency contraception using high dose oestrogen and/or progesterone analogues.

 

The "Morning After Pill" (MAP) is essentially a high dose of progestogen. We used levonorgestrel. The nicer, less nauseating drug is desogestrel ($$$$, so a turn off). They are both, in practical terms, as effective. What makes you spew is the oestrogen analogue, which is combined with the progestogen in the oral contraceptive pill. This is where it gets sticky.

 

The progestin-only method (POP - progestogen only pill) using the progestin levonorgestrel is in a dose of 1.5 mg, either as two 750 μg doses 12 hours apart, or more recently as a single dose.

 

Unfortunately, this means buying the "POP", "progestogen only pill". This is not the cheapest. And it is NOT an option in the PI (they are onto it).

 

The cheapest deal in the PI I found is to buy the cheapest biphasic or triphasic oral contraceptive pill (OCP). One is called the "Trust" pill. :D

 

This means swallowing oestrogen (spew factor) with the progesterone analogue. But this method, Yuzpe method, is well known in the West. The POP method is relatively new.

 

You can buy metoclopramide, which is an anti-nausea agent, to take with the dose of emergency contraception, BUT, there is a small risk of muscular spasm, eg in the neck OR eye muscles. Rare, but you need to know IF you are in a jam. Still, its a must, unless contraindicated.

 

As for the Trust Pill, its a case of "do the math". You will need 750 μg (microgram) doses of levonorgestrel 12 hours apart. That means adding up the doses of the ACTIVE pills to give you "that" dose OF levonorgestrel.

 

In the case of the TRUST pill, that means an observation that each of the "21 ochreous tablets has 0.125ug (ie 125 microgram) of levonorgestrol). Therefore you will need to swallow 6 of these pills and another 6, 12 hours later.

 

This makes the 750 μg (microgram) doses 12 hours apart.

 

Bear in mind the main side effect is nausea (and vomiting up the pills, which WONT work if they are not absorbed!), due to the oestrogen analogue. In this case, Trust Pills, it is ethinyl estradiol, 0.030 mg per tablet, that causes this.

 

As for other risks, you can look up the Yuzpe method. Its commonplace still in the West.

 

Other Qs pls ask. I bear no liability. It was survival for me. :cry:

 

FYI - metoclopramide dose is 10mg one hour BEFORE the emergency contraception, EACH dose.

 

My final edit - it worked fine for me.

Edited by breakfast

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poby

There is a website which gives precise medical information on how to do a "morning after" pill, describes the pills available in each country and the dosage required. Trust needs 4 pills and then another 4 pills 12 hours later and the procedure is effective up to 5 days after the.. er event. 95% effective if within first 24 hours dropping to 80% on the fifth day.

 

Nausea is the biggest problem and by all accounts it's a most unfun experience but then the first 3 months of pregnancy aren't much fun either.

 

As always when you need urgent info, google it.

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