Jump to content

23yr Old Wants To Overturn The Phils Power Industry


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 65
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Cipro

    22

  • PhilsFan

    13

  • rizla

    6

  • thebob

    5

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

When Leandro Leviste studied at Yale University, he heard about Elon Musk’s designs for Solarcity. Leviste had bought stocks in Tesla, Musk’s electric car brand, when they were cheap and sold them for

As long it lacks the storage capacity at LOW COST - to store the produced energy - solar power is too expensive !

'What it will cost you' is not what it costs. You have to figure in what sort of breaks you're getting to reduce costs, including but not limited to tax breaks, direct subsidies, as well as indirect s

PhilsFan

let me google that for you:   http://lmgtfy.com/?q=solar+is+cheaper+than+coal#seen    Its already cheaper.. can you imagine how much more cheaper it will be in 5 to 10 years.    OPEC is quaking.  

Hmmm...wonder if that might have anything to do with Saudi's plans to sell off a bunch of Aramco and run the country  off the profits of a Soverign Wealth fund?  :sarcasm:

Link to post
Share on other sites
rizla

You know, I used to do factory automation, and I can't think of a worse idea (fiscally and operationally) than a manufacturing plant that shuts down every evening and starts up every morning. Sorry to say, but true. 

And yet many still do open and close between 7am and 7pm, as do Banks, offices etc, they all consume far more electricity during the day than after dark.

Link to post
Share on other sites
rizla

I am getting quotes from various suppliers to install an array of panels on my home's roof in Argao, If the manufacturer in Guangzhou is to be believed, then the panels will power all my electricity, and by using the latest in fridge/aircon technology, which reduces the startup surge, the battery will continue to power throughout the night.

I don't care about selling excess, I care about not paying for electricity, and in less than 5 years the panels and system will have paid for itself. and just an annual maintenance cost thereafter, vastly cheaper than the annual electricity cost.

 

So far the cost is around $4000, so it has to be a cheaper option than just refusing to try!

I do accept that there may be hidden costs, but even so, at 3000peo per month, that 36,000P a year, I feel the outlay is worth the risk.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
PhilsFan

I am getting quotes from various suppliers to install an array of panels on my home's roof in Argao, If the manufacturer in Guangzhou is to be believed, then the panels will power all my electricity, and by using the latest in fridge/aircon technology, which reduces the startup surge, the battery will continue to power throughout the night.

I don't care about selling excess, I care about not paying for electricity, and in less than 5 years the panels and system will have paid for itself. and just an annual maintenance cost thereafter, vastly cheaper than the annual electricity cost.

 

So far the cost is around $4000, so it has to be a cheaper option than just refusing to try!

I do accept that there may be hidden costs, but even so, at 3000peo per month, that 36,000P a year, I feel the outlay is worth the risk.

Please keep us posted on your solar project!

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Oz Jon

You know, I used to do factory automation, and I can't think of a worse idea (fiscally and operationally) than a manufacturing plant that shuts down every evening and starts up every morning. Sorry to say, but true. 

We probably were a bit slack to use the word "factory" (many of which need to run multiple shifts) - "industries" would have been a better word.

 

There are plenty of them that run mainly in daylight hours.

A bit of storage and/or a bit of grid power would be needed as well as solar,but they could could get most of their energy from solar.

 

Energy economics are changing rapidly.

 

I guess that if the economics work out right, they will do it.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Cipro

 

 

And yet many still do open and close between 7am and 7pm

 

Factories?

 

Maybe we have different ideas of what a factory is, but I spent literally a decade doing consulting work for factories and I literally NEVER saw one that didn't run 24 hours a day unless they were running 0 hours a day for maintenance. There is too much expense involved in shutting down and starting up. Things cool off, warm up, dry out, draw moisture, and generally just play Hobb with any attempt to have good control of the process.


.

 

 

 

We probably were a bit slack to use the word "factory" (many of which need to run multiple shifts) - "industries" would have been a better word.

 

OK, for small time stuff, cottage industry, I can see it. My cousin owns an AL boat fabrication business where the work is all done by skilled labor. They run one shift during the daytime. 

 

But no, it's not a factory. It's a shop full of craftsmen. 


 

 

Its already cheaper.

 

Again, this assumes certain needed things are without cost, and other things are subsidized. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
samatm

 

 

 

Again, this assumes certain needed things are without cost, and other things are subsidized. 

 

the last report i read  comparing Solar  to Coal  head to head factoring out subsidies showed  that new solar panels and equpment to to produce electric cheaper per KWH than Coal.

Edited by samatm
Link to post
Share on other sites
rizla

 

 

Maybe we have different ideas of what a factory is, but I spent literally a decade doing consulting work for factories and I literally NEVER saw one that didn't run 24 hours a day unless they were running 0 hours a day for maintenance. There is too much expense involved in shutting down and starting up. Things cool off, warm up, dry out, draw moisture, and generally just play Hobb with any attempt to have good control of the process.

 

I have spent the best part of my life travelling around the world training engineers, I would think around half, maybe a little more, worked 24 hours.

 

My father was the GM of a large company manufacturing fire engines and specialist commercial vehicles, they employed over 500 staff, is that a cottage industry?  Because they also worked a standard day with on the very rare occasion, needing to work through the night to complete an order. 

 

I think we can agree that a large number of factories need to work 24 hours, but you cannot say all, and those that don't work 24 Hrs are hardly cottage industries.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Cipro
is that a cottage industry

 

It's not a factory. It sounds like a very vertical market for very specialized things, in this case, vehicles, made in a very labor intensive way. 

 

 

 

.

 

 

new solar panels and equpment to to produce electric cheaper per KWH than Coal

 

I'll read the specific one you linked, but I really doubt they computed n the costs of things that would be required to make the solar plant provide that level of power all day and all night, rain or shine. If they did not, they are comparing apples to horse turds. 

 

 

EDIT: Read the top results, same shit that was on /. long ago, some politician spewing his opinion, no facts given. 

Edited by Cipro
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
PhilsFan

I believe Cipro is accurate in most cases Solar is not quite as cheap as coal...yet. However, if you account for the environmental costs of using coal...it's really no contest. Coal gets plenty of subsidies/tax breaks/loop holes, as well. Recent coal bankruptcies are due to the low price of Natural gas, Solar and wind have some impact, but gas is why coal is not making money.

 

Renewables get cheaper every year..in just a few years no one will be able to dispute prices...(subsidies,carbon costs or otherwise.) Remember too, that Nat Gas is at historical lows right now...how competitive will renewables be if Nat gas and/or coal increase in price?  

 

Renewables will only continue to fall in price whereas FF's will soon have to account for environmental damages. Oil companies would be wise to start shifting assets if they wish to grow and prosper...and some are starting to do just that.

 

As a side note, China is really gearing up. They installed more solar last year then ever, and surpassed Germany in total MW installed...China is now #1.

China installed MW equal to almost 50% of our ENTIRE installed solar in the USA..in 1 year. 

 

The faster we start adopting, the better off we will be...and the more jobs we will create. 

Edited by PhilsFan
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Cipro

I think solar and wind are great and we should adopt a lot more, but I also think we need to develop and deploy a lot of nuclear plants for, you know, evenings, rainy days, night time, and when the wind isn't blowing. We accidentally produce about 20% of our electricity via nukes we put in so we could make bombs. Imagine what we could do if we did it with an eye on the best way to produce clean safe power instead of how we could make the best Plutonium. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
PhilsFan

I think solar and wind are great and we should adopt a lot more, but I also think we need to develop and deploy a lot of nuclear plants for, you know, evenings, rainy days, night time, and when the wind isn't blowing. We accidentally produce about 20% of our electricity via nukes we put in so we could make bombs. Imagine what we could do if we did it with an eye on the best way to produce clean safe power instead of how we could make the best Plutonium. 

 

But we still haven't been able to fiqure out how to eliminate the waste...storing rods for 100,000 plus years is not my idea of safe. When they can neutrelize the waste to inert/non toxic and radioactive-free...then I am all for it. Who wants to risk their water supply for nuclear energy...when it's not the only choice we have?  Lets not forget about the cost for building/maintaing a plant and of course, storage costs.

 

You won't be seeing any more Nuclear development in Japan..until those issues are addressed, that's for sure.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
rizla

Yes clean safe Nuclear power 

 

20150829_USM933.png

23159.ngsversion.1422035600401.adapt.768

So which do you think is safer? This

Japan%20earthquake%20and%20tsunami%20dev

 

or this

imag0430-e1355416323541.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Oz Jon

OK, for small time stuff, cottage industry, I can see it. My cousin owns an AL boat fabrication business where the work is all done by skilled labor. They run one shift during the daytime. But no, it's not a factory. It's a shop full of craftsmen.

 

Right! - that is a small-time operation example, but there are plenty of much bigger "industries" that could get the majority of their energy needs from solar.

 

Banks, insurance companies, much of government services, much of retail, etc .... all pretty much "daytime" operations and quite big employers.

 

Maybe the economics are not quite right yet, but they are heading that way.

 

I agree with you that nuclear is probably the best solution for base-load generation, but it faces a lot of political/psychological opposition and needs to be implemented in much more sensible ways than in the past!

(not on geologically unstable land, not a few metres above sea level, not without gravity fed cooling water backup supply, with properly planned and implemented waste storage, properly planned and funded end-of-life#,  etc)

 

 

# It would be nice if the same criteria were applied to coal mines, etc!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use, Privacy Policy and Guidelines. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue..