LED 12 VDC lighting problems.

[Cipro 6,202]

V=IR

 

The drop will depend on how big the load actually is, or more intuitively, the importance of the wire size is dependant on what part of the total system resistance is in the wires. Generally some LEDs wouldn't be much of a load. 

[thebob 18,260]

 5W / 12V = .42 Amps

 

Low Voltage Power Drop Charts

 

Note: for both AC and DC low voltage, generally the maximum acceptable voltage drop is 10%. The below charts assume this.

                    24 AWG    22 AWG      20 AWG       18 AWG      16 AWG   14 AWG    12 AWG

DC 400mA  54 feet      85 feet         148 feet        216 feet      344 feet    549 feet    877 feet

 

 

http://www.cctvcamerapros.com/AC-DC-voltage-drop-cable-distance-s/846.htm

Edited June 2, 2016 by thebob

[RogerDat 3,478]

And where to get 220 volts during blackouts?

14/12 gauge wire. amp draw is 0.11 per 12 DC LED.

12 volt DC LED's are indeed 12 volt. I use auto type 3 light strips for night lights, so little amp draw.

4/5 watt is security lights.

 

Paul, marker page 12. Time to buy. This is my way bringing the post forward cause it is many pages back, took 10 minuets to find it.

[Oz Jon 2,476]

LED's aren't 12V devices. Generally they have a forward voltage drop between about 1.2V and 3.8 Volts depending on colour. "White" LED's are usually between 3.4 and 3.8 volts. Current limiting is where most efficiency is lost. Automotive style "bulbs" are pretty inefficient, but they don't need to be.

 

Oh Bob!,

 

You and me both, trying to figure this lighting thing out.

 

We are both too Engineering/Technically oriented! - Lol!

 

I was thinking about 30cent (pea-sized things with wire legs) or higher powered $2? (postage stamp sized things) LED's too!

 

I'm pretty sure they are talking about the (rather expensive) retail LED lamps that are about the size and shape of traditional residential filament lamp bulbs or 12V LED array versions intended for the auto market.

 

The 12VDC or 240VAC rated ones must have some kind of current limiting/conditioning electronics built-in.

 

 

edit:

After a quick re-reading earlier posts, it strikes me (without enough evidence to be sure) that the battery plan is a bit of an overkill .... but that's better than under-providing! 

 

I'm reminded of an old Engineering adage - "any solution that works, is a good solution!" - Lol!

Edited June 3, 2016 by Oz Jon

[easydrifter 106]

Just get a small inverter connected to your batteries and go AC all the way, get rid of the 12 volt lights and use 230 volt AC LED lights.

[thebob 18,260]

 

 

was thinking about 30cent (pea-sized things with wire legs) or higher powered $2? (postage stamp sized things) LED's too!  

 

I'm pretty sure they are talking about the (rather expensive) retail LED lamps that are about the size and shape of traditional residential filament lamp bulbs or 12V LED array versions intended for the auto market.  

 

The 12VDC or 240VAC rated ones must have some kind of current limiting/conditioning electronics built-in.  

 

Inside they are all the same device just scale and packaging. The expensive mains ones just have an expensive phosphor coating to help them look like daylight.

 

Even the yellow postage stamp ones are just tiny arrays of series parallel devices.

 

Running long lengths of 12V is very inefficient, especially if you are relying on a slowly draining lead acid battery, as the voltage droops. everything just gets worse.

 

The reason that trucks use 24 volt is because of how long they are!

[Oz Jon 2,476]

Just get a small inverter connected to your batteries and go AC all the way, get rid of the 12 volt lights and use 230 volt AC LED lights.

canceled

 

I misunderstood you - Your idea has merit - it reduces the current by ~20:1 and consequently, high power losses in long runs of thin cabling.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Oz Jon

[easydrifter 106]

I could recommend the charger that I bought 6 months ago in Handyman Hardware for P4,300. It's a "Panther" brand made in the Philippines, 25 Amp either 12 or 24 volt. I don't know how 'smart' it is but it weighs 9 kilos and looks heavy duty. Not saying it's the best thing out there but I used it for charging a 150 ah deep cycle battery just fine but have never needed it since I got my first solar panel. A guy on YouTube called "Gadget Addict" does a little demonstration of charging a big Motolite deep cycle with his 10 Amp Panther charger.

[contraman 29,026]

I

 

Running long lengths of 12V is very inefficient, especially if you are relying on a slowly draining lead acid battery, as the voltage droops. everything just gets worse.

 

The reason that trucks use 24 volt is because of how long they are!

 

 

canceled

 

I misunderstood you - Your idea has merit - it reduces the current by ~20:1 and consequently, high power losses in long runs of thin cabling.

 

To minimise voltage drop, Trucks (Semi Trailers) also use 4mm wire and up to 6mm wire on Road Trains  

[easydrifter 106]

I run my 3 AC LED yard lights for a total of 19 watts for 12 hrs every night.Powered by a 150ah Chinese 12v battery and an inverter. I've heard that inverters are not as efficient for small loads as 12v but my battery voltage only drops from 12.7v to 12.6v over night. I mainly have this for brownouts but figure I might as well get some use out of it every day.

Edited June 3, 2016 by easydrifter

[Oz Jon 2,476]

I run my 3 AC LED yard lights for a total of 19 watts for 12 hrs every night.Powered by a 150ah Chinese 12v battery and an inverter. I've heard that inverters are not as efficient for small loads as 12v but my battery voltage only drops from 12.7v to 12.6v over night. I mainly have this for brownouts but figure I might as well get some use out of it every day.

 

Not surprising that you see hardly any change in the battery voltage in the morning!

 

19Watts at 12V is (19/12) Amps. [i=W/V]

For 12 hours, that's 12*(19/12) = 19 Amp.hrs (only 12-13% of the battery's capacity).

 

Even allowing for the fact that Chinese specs are notoriously optimistic, you have a well-over-engineered system - nothing wrong with that, if the cost was sensible!

 

Cheers!

Edited June 3, 2016 by Oz Jon

[RogerDat 3,478]

T2PPaB

[RogerDat 3,478]

Well, I got the battery and charger today. Battery is a 200 AH, 12VDC.

Charger is a automatic charger. It is a 20 amp rated.

is Oz John in Cebu? Who can build the switch thingy he posted, and how much?

 

I have approaching a 6 amp draw with 10, 5 watt, 1, 1 watt, 1,6 watt, and 18, 0.1 watt LED lights.

I have to build a new bench that can support about 100 lbs.

 

[Paul 55,113]

 

 

is Oz John in Cebu? Who can build the switch thingy he posted, and how much?

 

???

[Paul 55,113]

http://www.livingincambodiaforums.com/ipb/topic/4954-automatic-transfer-switch-from-mains-to-inverter/

[RogerDat 3,478]

 

 

LINC_PWR-Model.jpg

 

Oz Jon 2nd pager this post.

[Woolf 8,548]

I think RogerDat is thinking of  this one

 

http://www.livingincebuforums.com/topic/91784-led-12-vdc-lighting-problems/?p=1196900

[RogerDat 3,478]

I found a sticker on the back of my new charger that say's to only charge battery's less than 100AH!

The store that sold it to me says they will take it back, if they do, will post the name and address.

I know a truck driver in Germany, I will contact him about a 220 3 stage charger.

[RogerDat 3,478]

Well they refunded the charger, but held 3% to cover the card cost. Good source for solar and golf cart battery's.

PM me for store name, and location near pier 4.

[Paul 55,113]

Well they refunded the charger, but held 3% to cover the card cost. Good source for solar and golf cart battery's.

PM me for store name, and location near pier 4.

 

You can post it, if you want.

[RogerDat 3,478]

 

 

I have approaching a 6 amp draw with 10, 5 watt, 1, 1 watt, 1,6 watt, and 18, 0.1 watt LED lights.

 

I am NOT running 6 amps, my new clamp on says 1.7 with all automatic, and manually switched lights on.

 

The store is Seguro Marketing Pier 4 North reclamation area, go toward pier 4 entranc and make a u turn and come back to the pier road and make a right, its on the right side. Do NOT make a left turn on this road at red light as it is a high speed container truck route, you can die there. Yellow building with red strips. Tel # 416 6790. they also have a store on Colon street.

 

I found an UPS homemade here in Cebu post that is what I need I think.

1. A pair of 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in series
2. An automatic battery charger with a DC UPS mode
3. A 300 watt sine wave inverter (I do not need this as I am only interested in 12VDC)

4. I’m using a Samlex SEC-1230A 12 Volt 30 Amp Automatic Battery Charger. I have the DIP switch settings set to “Battery with Load” so the charger effectively becomes a DC UPS. There’s a good manual that explains the settings, and it’s available from the Samlex website as a PDF.

   The charger comes wired for 120V 60Hz input, but there’s an internal jumper that can be changed to make it 230V 50Hz. If you do that, you need to change the fuse as well. I made the change, and use it with a 220V 60Hz power source and so far I haven’t had any problems.

5. I have requested information on price and shipping.

http://www.kilovox.com/homemade-ups/ It goes on for several pages, and rambles, so will not post.

[thebob 18,260]

 

 

The charger comes wired for 120V 60Hz input, but there’s an internal jumper that can be changed to make it 230V 50Hz. If you do that, you need to change the fuse as well.

 

It's 60hz here not 50!

[Woolf 8,548]

If it is this one 

 

http://www.samlexamerica.com/documents/manuals/11001-SEC-1215-1230-2415UL-0513%20Lrez.pdf

 

it has an input range of 50-60 Hz

 

stated in section 7

[Paul 55,113]

I still can't get my head around the reasons behind a 20 ampere battery charger not being suitable to charge a 200 AH battery. Can anyone explain that to me?

[RogerDat 3,478]

Per your post, whats going on man? "but there’s an internal jumper that can be changed to make it 230V 50Hz. If you do that, you need to change the fuse as well".

I just want to know, please do not take this as a attack! LOL