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Mass shooting in San Bernardino, California,


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Unfortunately Oz, you missed the point I was making by a country mile, as I also said, some peoples seeming hatred of all things muslim is clouding their judgement, at no time have I commented on what I feel about muslims or their faith, at no time have I ever condoned or tried to convince anybody that what these people do is right, it isn't.

what I was saying is that regardless of religion, the nut job who shot up an abortion clinic, and all the other nut jobs that continually decide to kill innocent people for whatever reason in the USA all have a fervent belief that what they're doing is right,

The point I made was that they all had easy access to firearms.....

Hi Darren

 

I did not miss your point and i do respect your opinion..... but please allow me  to disagree with you.

I made many points and thank you for prompting me to do so.

I had no intention to get into a peeing contest with you or anyone else, good debate is however stimulating and if the world agreed with me there possibly would be no wars....your point about no weapons is a valid one, your point about this guy being a nutter i see as an excuse.... and thats the point i was making.

 

I am sick of excuses.... every time there is a religion based crime, defenders of the faith (s) do everything to justify activity by their members...for me, these people are cold blooded killers. Maybe i am old fashioned but when citizens fight against their own country it is treason, no more no less, we need to start to call it for what it is.

 

Democracy gives us the chance to rid ourselves of our elected leaders.... demonstrating against their actions by killing fellow citizens is a crime and their ain't no excuse for that.

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why do the people in the west NEED to understand and embrace their culture they should be doing to embracing ..... We move here to the philippines and we must follow the laws here so why should they c

Screw them. They (Muslims) need to start learning more about US. If they are going live in OUR countries, within OUR cultures, then they can live in accordance with OUR laws, OUR rules, and OUR guidel

You must be the most one eyed person on this planet , the fact that they demand sharia law in Britain , Australia and other country's they have migrated to is testament that your statement holds no we

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Scotsbloke

We should dispassionately work to eliminate Isis without losing focus and making the problem worse.

 

PC drivel. Their aim is not to make us suspect all Muslims. That's something western governments have made up because they are trying to integrate Muslims into our society.

Honestly.  'our society' has lots of religions almost none of whom are terrorists.

 

Here in the UK most terrorists are Catholic Christians yet The US of A continually endorses Catholic bomb-throwers.

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JSL-USMC

Seems to me that many of the talking heads are trying their best to make the shooting "not a terrorist attack" Then just WTF was it?  It was a muslin terrorist attack as in      " a rose by any other name..."

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Your point is fine, but you are either mistaken about or not telling the truth about their aim.

 

The aim of IS is to establish their caliphate. The aim of domestic western terrorists who align themselves with IS is to kill us because they hate us for our war against their evil empire and to 'strike terror' into our hearts. It's not to manipulate westerners' feelings towards other Muslims, that's completely made up to try to have us focus on the enemy we can hit. It's perhaps trying to get the right result, but not by not telling the truth. I prefer to know the truth and still do the right thing, personally. It's better again.

 

Muslims are doing what they do because of their religious beliefs. Nowhere in that religion are they taught to manipulate people against others of their faith. Let's tell the truth.

One is (establish a world Islamic state) a strategy ,the other (alienate western muslims to gain their support) is a tactic. These guys are not the brightest but I do not think they think they are on the verge of world domination in the short term.
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Tullioz

PC drivel. Their aim is not to make us suspect all Muslims. That's something western governments have made up because they are trying to integrate Muslims into our society.

 

In all honesty, their aim is to kill as many of us as they can because they hate us. 

 

The only way ISIS can flourish and survive is to create a division between Muslims and non-Muslims. It has been their game plan all along. Sadly too many politicians and even people here are taking their bait. All this anti Islamic talk and politicians pandering to it will no doubt cause more Muslims to become radicalized even in western countries. It may have even been what pushed this couple over the edge, who knows for sure, but I doubt very seriously their goal in life was to become terrorist some day. There had to be some influence that made them choose such a path in life.

 

The more we get angry and demand our governments discriminate against Muslims and continue bombing Muslim countries in retaliation, the stronger ISIS becomes. Imagine if you were a Muslim and you watched the west bombing and killing for decades with hundreds of thousands of your fellow Muslims dying during that time. Seeing mangled bodies of women and children being pulled out of the rubble after a western country dropped bombs somewhere in the Muslim world almost daily for years on end. You don't think that will make someone angry enough to take up arms and kill for the sake of their people? You know, like an eye for an eye? Think about this for a moment. How did you feel on 9/11? I remember exactly how I felt. Now imagine if scenes like that occurred day in and day out for years on end in western countries.  

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This one was radicalized. His computer contains links to jihadist websites and ISIS literature was found in his home along with the 15 pipe bombs that were found. Not just your everyday American citizen.

 

Don't forget that the wife who committed the crimes with him was a Pakistani citizen. She was here on a K1 visa.

 

Is it too soon for me to say "thank god she wasn't here illegally" do you think?

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Scotsbloke

studies have shown that the more Muslims adopt their religion, the more they align themselves with terrorism.

Jesus. I am all for containing terrorism.  But this?  Really?

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Tullioz

Indeed; Islam itself. They are following a popular interpretation of the Quran. In fact, studies have shown that the more Muslims adopt their religion, the more they align themselves with terrorism.

 

I don't have time to rehash that argument again and there are 2,000,000,000+ Muslims who prove otherwise. I will try to stick to the topic at hand from here on out.

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Jesus. I am all for containing terrorism.  But this?  Really?

I withdraw my statement after researching it further. I was mistaken, I believe.

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The only way ISIS can flourish and survive is to create a division between Muslims and non-Muslims. It has been their game plan all along. Sadly too many politicians and even people here are taking their bait. All this anti Islamic talk and politicians pandering to it will no doubt cause more Muslims to become radicalized even in western countries. It may have even been what pushed this couple over the edge, who knows for sure, but I doubt very seriously their goal in life was to become terrorist some day. There had to be some influence that made them choose such a path in life.

 

The more we get angry and demand our governments discriminate against Muslims and continue bombing Muslim countries in retaliation, the stronger ISIS becomes. Imagine if you were a Muslim and you watched the west bombing and killing for decades with hundreds of thousands of your fellow Muslims dying during that time. Seeing mangled bodies of women and children being pulled out of the rubble after a western country dropped bombs somewhere in the Muslim world almost daily for years on end. You don't think that will make someone angry enough to take up arms and kill for the sake of their people? You know, like an eye for an eye? Think about this for a moment. How did you feel on 9/11? I remember exactly how I felt. Now imagine if scenes like that occurred day in and day out for years on end in western countries.  

 

The only way for  ISIS to flourish is by the acceptance  of peaceful Muslims who do nothing. As was said in another post how many actually beleive the terrorists are acting in accordance with what their god wants? Not the 0.01% you claim. They may not actively support their methods but give indirect support with their silence..

 

Right it's our fault because we don't study the Koran - how is reading a book going to stop a bullet? Is that the only way? 

 

I don't give a crap what happens in other countries  Funny they don't seen so outraged that  Muslims are killing many more of their fellow Muslims then we are.

 

" It may have even been what pushed this couple over the edge, who knows for sure, but I doubt very seriously their goal in life was to become terrorist some day. "

 

Or it may have been a religion that glorifies and promises rewards for those who murder innocents

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I don't give a crap what happens in other countries Funny they don't seen so outraged that Muslims are killing many more of their fellow Muslims then we are.

 

 

There many muslims who are now actually fighting Isis while we sit and talk and rant and rave. In Syria both anti and pro Assad forces are fighting Isis. The Kurds are fighting isis. The shite militias are fighting isis in Iraq along with the Iraqi military. The Egyptians are fighting isis. They were so outraged with extremists they deposed the Islamic brotherhood. Most muslims and all shites despise isis. Focus on the enemy.

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'Oh what a tangled web we weave. When first we practice to deceive'

 

...They , like christians know that the book which outlines how they should live their lives is simply not applicable in this day and age. ...

Christians use the Bible which is most certainly applicable to our lives now. In it, it says much of the Old Testament (the law) isn't something we are to live by now, otherwise it would be reasonable for you to include Christians in your post.

 

The only way for  ISIS to flourish is by the acceptance  of peaceful Muslims who do nothing. As was said in another post how many actually beleive the terrorists are acting in accordance with what their god wants? Not the 0.01% you claim. They may not actively support their methods but give indirect support with their silence..

 

I can answer this question with statistics gathered by a collaboration of researchers overseen by the University of Maryland:

 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans

32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans

41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans

38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans

83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)

62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)

42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)

A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans: 

(Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%)

About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf

 

Here are some more statistics, these from Pew Research:

 

26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.

35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).

42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).

22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).

29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).

 

http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60

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Scotsbloke

I withdraw my statement after researching it further. I was mistaken, I believe.

Well in, chappy.  I respect your post.

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Not sure about the US, But on OZ Government employees are very well paid

BTW:  Wasn't it a Rented SUV  :idontknow:

 

Yes it was a rented SUV (Ford Expedition)

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