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Bill H

So you want to build/buy a boat in the PH, here is the place to discuss it!

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thebob

I think it is also important to include propulsion in your initial decisions.

 

Oars, or peddles.

 

Sail.

 

Motors/Engines.

 

Inboard/Outboard.

 

Gas/Diesel/Electric//Steam

 

Marine/Stationary/Automotive

Edited by thebob
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hilyfe

I have a small bangka in philippines

With a motor in it i think its a kubota motor?

They use it for fishing only

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Oz Jon

So, this is a start. Make your comments, ask your questions and I will do what I can to facilitate the process.

 

Thanks Bill!

 

A well thought out and concise start to the thread - a few gems of wisdom and experience there!

 

 

On the topic of deciding what you want in a boat, I'm reminded of a bit of professional boat designer (laconic) wisdom :-

 

" there are 3 key factors in boat design, performance, comfort, cost - which 2 do you want!" - Lol!

 

 

Cheers, Oz Jon

Edited by Oz Jon
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Oz Jon

Even a small boat is a pretty big project, and will cost more money than you think.

 

 

With "tounge-in-cheek" I once suggested that there is a hidden factor of "Pi" (= 3.142) involved in DIY  boatbuilding.

 

I suggested that the way to estimate what a DIY boat will cost to build and time to finish it is:-

 

a) 1st make a conservative (bias to the high side) estimate of what it will cost and how long it will take.

b) then multiply the answer by "Pi" (= 3.142) and you will be about right!

 

It was said as a joke, but my experience suggests that this isn't too far from the truth.

 

Even professional boat builders tend to underestimate boat building time/costs. (by a factor much less than "Pi" though!)

 

There are many "abandoned dreams" partly built and lying in back-yards and boat yards.

 

Building a boat is a very rewarding experience and a great thing to do, but not a project to be taken on lightly.

 

Don't be discouraged by the above, but a reality-check is always worthwhile.

Listen to the advice of others who have "been there, done that"

 

ps. Much off the estimating error results from basing it on building experience with projects using readily available material/components, flat surfaces, straight-lines, right-angle joints and easy access- there are very few of these things in a boat! - they are much more complicated.

Edited by Oz Jon
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colemanlee

I put a picture of our boat and a description of something Im gona try in James thread....been thinking about for some time...using two 16 footers as outriggers

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JamesMusslewhite

With my boat I have been keeping a rough estimate of costs and expenditures so far to date. This includes the initial cost of the boat, transporting to the water and towing the boat over to our island. The tearing down the boat to the solid hull board and transporting the hull board to our farm. The cost of all bamboo, plywood, boards, nails and epoxy. Cost of clear epoxy and epoxy 'white' pigment primer.

 

cost of original boat............................... 10,000 php

transportation-towing and tear down........6,000 php

new building materials...........................15,000 php

------------------------------------------------------------------

cost to date...........................................31,000 php

 

All that is left is the materials to finish the painting of the boat which requires 3 gal epoxy primer, 3 gal base paint, 3 which should cost less than 8,000 php. I will also be building a removable canopy w/ storage box which I have no idea of the total cost for the completed canopy project, but I expect it to be less than 6,000 php.

 

so when done I will have approximately 45,000 php wrapped up in this boat once in the water. Now I do not have any labor costs involved in the rebuild of the boat. But if I had all the materials on hand at startup I can safely say that two experienced boat builders could easily turnkey a boat project like mine in under 3 weeks from start to completion. So members can use these figures to determine the financial obligation they will be taking on if they want to build a similar size boat. I have taken my time, used quality woods and used quality materials throughout the build but I am also lucky because I am located where the wood is readily available and I have boat builders in my family. In areas like Cebu or Bohol one could easily spend 65,000-80,000 php for a well built 34 foot boat (without motor). 

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Bill H

 

 

Now I do not have any labor costs involved in the rebuild of the boat.

 

   And that is a very good thing for you, because about 80% of the cost of building a boat is labor!!   :yahoo:   One of the reasons building a boat in the PH is such an attractive prospect.

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Pman

So how much is a fair price for a little two seat boat for close to shore fishing and exercise? I've been wanting to buy one but don't want to pay too much. In the USA I could buy a small sea kayak for less than 200. Any chance of getting one built for that here?

 

Needs:

2 seats

Fishing

Daily exercise paddling.

As small as possible to be able to launch by hand alone.

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thebob

So how much is a fair price for a little two seat boat for close to shore fishing and exercise? I've been wanting to buy one but don't want to pay too much. In the USA I could buy a small sea kayak for less than 200. Any chance of getting one built for that here?

 

Needs:

2 seats

Fishing

Daily exercise paddling.

As small as possible to be able to launch by hand alone.

 

Something like this could easily be built for $200

 

http://spirainternational.com/downloads/How_To_Build_an_Easy_Home_Built_Sea_Kayak.pdf

 

I've thought of using these as amas for a banca.

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AussieLex

 

I built one of these in Australia a few years ago and am thinking of building another one using the same plan but modified to give a little more freeboard and over dimensioned so it is about 15'6" long overall... I think that would work well... Anyone who can use basic tools can build this without too much trouble. Take your time and think each step through and it should be easy. 

 

Over the past 50 years I have built everything from a corrugated iron canoe, (when I was a kid on the farm), to an 18 foot half cabin with double diagonal ply hull, powered by a 6 cylinder inboard engine. I guess I have built 11 or 12 boats of varying kinds over the years.  I even built a batton and canvas canoe once that also worked well but I want something a little more solid in the future...

 

The last boat I owned, (but didn't build), was a 42 foot ferro cruising yacht.

Edited by AussieLex

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Bill H

I'm planning on getting to propulsion in a bit, but first I want to cover some other topics.

 

Today I will fess up and explain why I am such a strong believer in steel boats.  Here is an example:  Back in 1982 a world renowned French sailor by the name of Bernard Moitessier left his boat unattended and anchored off the beach of Cabo San Lucas, Mexico while he and a friend entertained some ladies in a local motel.  An unexpected storm appeared and raged for several days.  Many boats were lost and Bernard's boat sat in the heavy surf for several days until the storm passed.  By that time his boat was full of sand and water, the wooden mast and boom were destroyed but the hull itself was undamaged.  To make a long story short, in a fit of depression Bernard gave the boat to some guys, thinking it was a total loss.  The new owners pumped out the water, cleaned out the sand, repaired the engine, fixed the interior and the boat remains sailing today.  Bernard's boat was made of steel.  FRG boats caught in the same storm were all destroyed as were wooden boats, but Bernard's survived and sails to this day.  Such is the remarkable strength of steel.

 

You are probably thinking of that dirty four letter word, RUST and yes, steel does rust, but modern epoxy coatings have gone a very long way to prevent rust from causing any significant damage to the underlying steel.  Yes, epoxy coatings have gotten that good.  You have also been told how heavy steel is and a cubic foot of steel does in fact weigh about 490 pounds depending upon the alloy.  I don't know about you, but I'd hate to have 490 pounds of anything dropped on my big toe!

 

But wait, we generally don't build boats with 12" thick steel plate, battleships yes, yachts and fishing boats no.  In fact the typical steel recreational boat is probably made with 3/16" thick plate.  How much does that weigh?  Are you ready for this?  7.66 pounds per square foot.  Even your wife can lift that!  Commercial fishing boats are usually made with 1/4" plate and that weighs 10.2# per square foot.  Have you ever seen the "Time Bandit" crabbing boat on the Discovery Channel?  She's made with mostly 1/4" steel plate.

 

While any boat can sink (even the Titanic) steel boats have proven time and again they can take a beating and keep on ticking (Fred will like that and relate to it!).  A FRG catamaran foolishly sailed through the south Pacific relying solely on it's GPS charts and promptly ran onto a reef.  The owner lost his leg, but the family survived.  The boat was torn to pieces in the surf.  Steel boats under similar circumstances suffer little to no damage.  Here are two more examples that happened to me personally:

 

I owned a 65' steel cutter rigged, twin engine boat that was the love of my life.  At 65' she was simply too big for any available slip in the marina so they had us toward the end of a quiet dock even though our bow stuck out about 20'.  One night, a very drunken fisherman came into the marina going way too fast and being way too drunk to skipper his boat responsibly.  He managed to T-bone my boat in the process with his bow impacting with the forward side of my boat.  The impact caved in his bow and he began to sink.  Fortunately for him, there was a Coast Guard station just across from the accident site and the whole affair was witnessed by the duty officer and Senior Chief on duty.  They sounded the alarm and as luck would have it, they had been practicing emergency pumping that very afternoon, so all the equipment that was needed was at hand.  They mounted portable pumps on the fishing boat and towed/pushed it to the travel lift dock.  The travel lift operator came down at 3AM to lift the boat from the water which saved it.  I was called because the damage to the fishing boat was so severe the Coasties assumed my boat was badly damaged as well.  So, like the travel lift operator who was also the Harbor Master I made the short trip down to the marina at 3 am as well.  It was very dark, but I had a good flashlight still I could not find any damage to the hull.  I went below and the bilge was just as dry as it always was.  The next day, I did find where the paint was slightly marred, but no other damage occurred.  In the end, the fisherman decided to write off his boat as being beyond repair.  Score another for steel boats.

 

In 2009 my lovely 65 was lost to divorce I acquired a older 15m cutter.  It had a lot of character and also needed a lot of TLC but I could afford her and she was mine, so I was happy.  I was taking her up to Napa California where the Napa Marina is known locally as a very good place to work on your own boat.  There was little wind that day as I made the trip from Alameda and all was well.  It felt very good to be back on the water, even though by now my hearing was mostly lost.  Before making the Napa river to turn for the run upstream to the marina the boat was acting strange.  Of course I couldn't hear anything was amiss, but in fact things were seriously amiss.  The hose that takes the hot water from the exhaust heat exchanger and blends it with the exhaust gases to cool the whole lot ruptured.  So instead of spitting the water out the back of the boat with the exhaust it was filling the engine compartment, then the cabin and finally the engine compartment was so far under water the engine began to ingest water.  At that point, I saw white billowing smoke pouring out my stern and knew I had a problem.  When I opened the companion way I saw I was sinking, not a good feeling at all.  

 

My adopted brother who chronically worries about my adventures while deaf, was monitoring his phone so he saw my text message immediately and summoned the Boat US towing service to my rescue.  The young man who finally arrived had far more enthusiasm than intelligence or experience, but he was eager.  By the time he arrived, I'd gotten the boat all pumped out and of course the engine long ago shut down, so the danger of sinking was past.  The young man threw me a bow line and told me he would stop before entering the marina to rig a better tow.  That was fine with me, so off we went.  He was going far faster than I liked, but was also ignoring my signals to slow down.  We made the marina after a while but instead of stopping to rig a proper tow he just steered his boat into the entrance with me following close behind.  I blew my horn, my stack and most anything else I could lay my hands on trying to get him to stop, but he would have none of it.

 

The owner of the Marina saw all this happening and came on the run down to the dock to try and get me a snubber line so I could stop my forward momentum.  My engine was inoperative at this point, so I had no was to stop the boat.  Normally you would put the transfer case in reverse and apply the throttle to slow down, but without an engine this was not an option.  At this point it was clear the only thing that would stop me would be another boat or a dock.  I was hoping the kid would cooperate so I could ram him good and proper, but he didn't, so my choices dwindled quickly.  In the end I opted for the transient dock and adjoining fuel shack as I really did not want to hit the fuel dock itself or any of the boats near it.  I steered for what looked like the best place to crash and did just that.  My 15m boat weighs over 16t  so at a speed of about 5mph we made quite a spectacle.  Wood, pieces of dock, then pieces of the fuel shack all went flying until we finally came to a stop.  The owner of the marina was beyond furious and I'm sure wanted the kid to come close enough to the dock so he could be throttled without mercy, but the kids was not that dumb and kept his distance.  Fortunately, the owner saw me as much the victim as he was, so he had no issues with me.  In the end, Boat US paid him handsomely and he was happy.

 

My boat?  Almost nothing.  The bow pulpit (fabricated out of 1 1/4 thick wall stainless pipe had a slight bend to it where it went through the fuel shack roof, but I'd have to show it to you for you to notice it.  There were a few mars to the paint on the bow where it cut the dock in two, but nothing to bare metal.  Essentially I was unscathed.  I probably should have, but I never pressed a claim against Boat US, I figured the Marina Owner was doing a pretty good job of that and didn't need any help from me.  And that my LinC friends is why I'm so fond of steel boats!

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Bill H

So how much is a fair price for a little two seat boat for close to shore fishing and exercise? I've been wanting to buy one but don't want to pay too much. In the USA I could buy a small sea kayak for less than 200. Any chance of getting one built for that here?

 

Needs:

2 seats

Fishing

Daily exercise paddling.

As small as possible to be able to launch by hand alone.

 

If you do all the labor you might have a chance, but if you have to hire help I doubt it can be done.  Quality plywood is very difficult to find and expensive when you do.  I would stay away from the name brand epoxy companies here who are, in my view, way over priced and I'm no fan of epoxy which contains fillers except for specific purposes.  I'm guessing 4 sheets of ply or 8 if you use thin ply and laminate it (which will give you the strongest hull).  If your budget was $300 I think you'd have a far better chance of getting it built.

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Bill H

I did a Google for "boats for sale" in the PH and not one of them caught my eye, but there were very few available as well.  Most were banca style or GRP ski boats.  I've seen many advertisements in the past for boats made in China, but honestly I know nothing about them.  My gut feeling is the cost of shipping just one small boat would make the project not very cost effective.  If you could fill a container then maybe the cost wouldn't be so bad, if (big if) you could sell the boats in a reasonable time frame.

 

I'm a little surprised by this, but then again I'm not.  I doubt there is much of a local market for small pleasure boats.  Pinoy's want a boat they can use to fee their family, not go water skiing with.  I think the combination of VAT, import duty and high shipping costs makes importing boats from other places not very coast effective.

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AussieLex

 

 

I'm no fan of epoxy which contains fillers

 

Umm No, epoxy only contains  fillers if you add them, usually when used for gluing, joining pieced of ply or filling cracks and filleting joins ...

 

maybe you should read this ... http://www.amtcomposites.co.za/sites/default/files/media/howto/Advantages%20of%20Epoxy%20over%20Polyester.pdf

 

Epoxy is stronger, lighter, more resistant to osmosis and more expensive ... given a choice I would pick epoxy every time.

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