MECO grounding issues

[musicman666 1,961]

Drive a metal stake into the soil outside ....run a wire from your cpu case to the stake....no more shocks!

[Cipro 6,202]

Drive a metal stake into the soil outside ....run a wire from your cpu case to the stake....no more shocks!

 

Probably effective, however you still have a current leaking to ground, which is a fault in the wiring SOMEPLACE. 

[Woolf 8,550]

Probably effective, however you still have a current leaking to ground, which is a fault in the wiring SOMEPLACE. 

 

 

yes there is a tiny leakage  but it is NOT a fault in the wiring

 

it is normal, it is an effect of the line emi filter in the equipment, there is no danger

 

the leakage is so small that it would not flip a current fault relay

Edited October 29, 2015 by Woolf

[Woolf 8,550]

There are many types and shapes of EMI line filters

 

https://www.google.com.ph/search?q=single+pole+emi+filter&espv=2&biw=1523&bih=867&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CCUQsARqFQoTCIbq5Yen6MgCFSYlpgodAdQOXg#imgrc=-0Zjel-wvC16oM%3A

[philuk 3,146]

The dreaded tingle of electricity coursing through your appliances.

 

I've had a computer get fried and haven't plugged in my nice hifi for months now because of this darn issue.

 

'grounded' as they call it...which means actually it's not grounded.

 

I'm not sure the proper technicalities but apparently it's a problem with a badly installed wiring system. No voltage regulator or surge device will stop it.

 

People talk about making your own ground but how does this work? I live in a house and want to ground my pc or record player your telling me I have to run a wire form the 'chassis'? case? to the earth outside...

 

Any electricians care to shed some light for us lamens?

 

Thanks

 

This is a TT earth sytem, TT stands for "Tera Tera",   It requires that all plug outlets have a third wire, the green and yellow, known as a CPC "Ciruit Protective Conductor"

 

This is needed for a MCB circuit breaker to function,   Any fault to earth, ie a short goes to ground through the earth stake, travels back to the point of supply, and then back up the live to the circuit breaker as an over voltage and trips the MCB.

 

If you have MCB's in your consumer unit and no earth, they will not work

 

You will notice the CPC is also conected to the metal gas and water pipes,   this not to help with the earth to ground, it is equepetential bonding, (good chance of a bad spelling there guys)

The purpose of the cross bonding is to protect you from electrocution if the pipes should ever become live,  the live would travel through the ground stake and again back to the MCB and trip it,   without this cross bonding the pipe would be just waiting for you to grab hold and earth them out,

 

Hope this explanation help you guys,   shit knows i got a head ache when i took the exams

Edited October 29, 2015 by philuk

[Cipro 6,202]

yes there is a tiny leakage  but it is NOT a fault in the wiring

 

it is normal, it is an effect of the line emi filter in the equipment, there is no danger

 

the leakage is so small that it would not flip a current fault relay

 

As far as I know, the NEC says that no non-fault current shall be routed down the grounding conductor. Not sure what the PEC has to say on the subject. 

[Woolf 8,550]

As far as I know, the NEC says that no non-fault current shall be routed down the grounding conductor. Not sure what the PEC has to say on the subject. 

 

 

Yes you are right, but you aint in kansas any more

 

When there is no ground in the socket where can it go, the best solution to prevent the tickling,

ground your chassis to your own ground stick, the current is so low that the ground do not have to be 

very effective

[Cipro 6,202]

Yes you are right, but you aint in kansas any more

 

When there is no ground in the socket where can it go, the best solution to prevent the tickling,

ground your chassis to your own ground stick, the current is so low that the ground do not have to be 

very effective

 

I think ideally this is supposed to be routed into the groundED conductor, and that conductor should have low enough impedance that the voltage drop to ground should be effectively zero?

 

But as you said, we're talking about a place where they figured it was a genius plan to use 120v plugs and sockets for 240v circuits ....

[Woolf 8,550]

This is a TT earth sytem, TT stands for "Tera Tera",   It requires that all plug outlets have a third wire, the green and yellow, known as a CPC "Ciruit Protective Conductor"

 

This is needed for a MCB circuit breaker to function,   Any fault to earth, ie a short goes to ground through the earth stake, travels back to the point of supply, and then back up the live to the circuit breaker as an over voltage and trips the MCB.

 

If you have MCB's in your consumer unit and no earth, they will not work

 

You will notice the CPC is also conected to the metal gas and water pipes,   this not to help with the earth to ground, it is equepetential bonding, (good chance of a bad spelling there guys)

The purpose of the cross bonding is to protect you from electrocution if the pipes should ever become live,  the live would travel through the ground stake and again back to the MCB and trip it,   without this cross bonding the pipe would be just waiting for you to grab hold and earth them out,

 

Hope this explanation help you guys,   shit knows i got a head ache when i took the exams

 

This is needed for a MCB circuit breaker to function,   Any fault to earth, ie a short goes to ground through the earth stake, travels back to the point of supply, and then back up the live to the circuit breaker as an over voltage and trips the MCB.

 

How can anything travel when it has been earthed,  in my opinion this is some kind of misunderstanding just pure nonsense

 

as an over voltage ?????   a circuit breaker is tripped by current not voltage

 

What is an MCB ???   a current fault relay ??

Edited October 29, 2015 by Woolf

[philuk 3,146]

This is needed for a MCB circuit breaker to function,   Any fault to earth, ie a short goes to ground through the earth stake, travels back to the point of supply, and then back up the live to the circuit breaker as an over voltage and trips the MCB.

 

How can anything travel when it has been earthed,  in my opinion this is some kind of misunderstanding just pure nonsense

 

as an over voltage ?????   a circuit breaker is tripped by current not voltage

 

What is an MCB ???   a current fault relay ??

 

not nonsense,   pure fact, 

 

EARTHING SYSTEMS

 

These have been designated in the IEE Regulations using the letters: T, N, C and  S.              These letters stand for:

 

T    -  terre  (French for earth) and meaning a direct connection to earth. 

N    -  neutral

C    -  combined

S    -  separate.

 

When these letters are grouped, they form the classification of a type of system. 

The first letter denotes how the supply source is earthed.  

The second denotes how the metalwork of an installation is earthed.   The third and fourth indicate the functions of neutral and protective conductors.

 

TT SYSTEM

 

A TT system has a direct connection to the supply source to earth and a direct connection of the installation metalwork to earth.  An example is an overhead line supply with earth electrodes, and the mass of earth as a return path as shown below.

 

so as can be seen by the diagram above the earth fault travels back through the ground to the source and back up the neutral wire to the consumer unit

 

apologies for stating the live wire in the previous post, I'm still new to this.

 

where did you think the electric went to when it dissapears into the ground,  it does not simply disperse, it has to go back to the source.

Edited October 29, 2015 by philuk

[Woolf 8,550]

Philuh!

 

MCB = Master CB ?  just a normal CB something like 25 amp ?

 

Do you not use current fault relays in UK ?

Edited October 29, 2015 by Woolf

[Woolf 8,550]

I think ideally this is supposed to be routed into the groundED conductor, and that conductor should have low enough impedance that the voltage drop to ground should be effectively zero?

 

But as you said, we're talking about a place where they figured it was a genius plan to use 120v plugs and sockets for 240v circuits ....

 

The electric system here in philippines was started up by americans

and I thik it started up as a 110/120 volt system

 

somewhere along the line it was decided  to go to 220/240 so they kept the sockets

bad idea to use the same socket? yes

 

they could have gone with the other flat pine ones like china australia and argentina

 

by going to 240 you save on copper

[philuk 3,146]

Philuh!

 

MCB = Master CB ?  just a normal CB something like 25 amp ?

 

Do you not use current fault relays in UK ?

sorry mate i missed the question in your post :  an MCB is a miniature circuit breaker, and it needs an earth fault loop back through the source to trip when a supply voltage goes to earth as in a short to the casing of an electrical appliance,

 

without an earth fault loop it will only trip if live and neutral short,  probably what you call a current fault relay,  not sure looks like this

 

this a 32 amp

 

we also use RCD's as extra protection, which can supply more than one circuit in a consumer unit

Edited October 29, 2015 by philuk

[Woolf 8,550]

Sorry but this looks to me as just an ordinary circuit breaker, the only thing that will trip it is over current

 

https://www.google.com.ph/search?q=mcb+breaker&espv=2&biw=1523&bih=867&tbm=isch&imgil=VLIxVW_wOVIyRM%253A%253B3HvfrFA_y0yZpM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.diytrade.com%25252Fchina%25252Fpd%25252F6203726%25252FBKN_MCB_mini_circuit_breaker.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=VLIxVW_wOVIyRM%253A%252C3HvfrFA_y0yZpM%252C_&usg=__GjQPoPxk33Qm-y_WN2eCAZ5_CfI%3D&ved=0CEkQyjdqFQoTCMrqztfm6MgCFcPjpgodk3ELAw&ei=aKcyVsqWJMPHmwWT460Y#imgrc=HWT4hUwJ2y1zxM%3A&usg=__GjQPoPxk33Qm-y_WN2eCAZ5_CfI%3D

[Woolf 8,550]

Current fault relay looks like this one