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New Boat Build Project - (Totally Rebuilding an Older Boat)


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thebob

did u decide what donk to put in james,,that 14hp kwakka seems a good price if the HP was enough?

 

I'd be tempted to put in 2. He can fit the pipe for a second prop and engine mounting forward of his main. The auxiliary shaft can exit on the starboard side just astern of his main engine. When he buys a new engine he can just relocate his old one.

 

Run both for more power, less chance of them both breaking down at the same time. I'm a great believer in an auxiliary in a boat.

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For the last two weeks the 'Arthur 1' has been receiving an upgrade. The old 8.5hp engine has now been replaced with an 18Hp engine.This required the installation of a heavier shaft and replacing the

The location is a nice little secluded strip of pebbled beach that seems to have a large shallow waterfront area which will be ideal for the small children of the family to run, play and splash about

I have owned six boats over the 7 years we have lived here in the Surigao. One of the advantages of living here in the Surigao City area is boating, with great fishing and so many small islands around

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JamesMusslewhite

Well in between all the hammering, chiseling and sawing we have started gathering the proper bamboo needed for the outriggers They are about the size of 2 inch PVC water pipe. There is a special variety of bamboo used for this purpose. It is very thick-skinned and though it may be as big around as a 2" PVC pipe the whole that runs through it's middle is only large enough to stick a finger in. This variety has the strength and flexibility to take a pounding by the waves and still spring back. I have heard that bamboo has the tensile strength superior to steel. Some silly facts about bamboo:

  • Unlike wood, bamboo has no rays or knots, allowing it to withstand more stress throughout the length of each stalk.
  • Bamboo’s sectional anatomy, both as a cane and on a microscopic fiber level, enhances its structural integrity.
  • The high silica content in bamboo fibers means the material cannot be digested by termites.
  • Bamboo contains different chemical extractives than hardwood, which make it better suited for gluing.

The very dense fibers in each bamboo cane give the plant extreme flexibility, allowing it to bend without snapping. In earthquakes, a bamboo forest is actually a very safe place to take shelter, and houses made of bamboo have been known to withstand 9.0 magnitude quakes. For thousands of years bamboo has been the go-to building material for most of the world.

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thebob

 

 

There is a special variety of bamboo used for this purpose. It is very thick-skinned and though it may be as big around as a 2" PVC pipe the whole that runs through it's middle is only large enough to stick a finger in.

 

They call it "Chinese Bamboo" around here but I've no idea of the species.

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JamesMusslewhite

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The bamboo is stuck in a nitch, hole or exposed root and then coconut palm leaves are rolled up into something akin to a big torch. Up to ten of these torches are lined up and the first one is lit. Then the tip of the burning torch is held several inches from the bamboo where the intended bend is to be made, and gently moved up and down the stalk on both sides of the bamboo were the desired bend is to be made.. Then after about five or six of these rolled torches are burned completely they will pull on the bamboo to see if it is ready to bend, if not then they use another torch. Eventually the bamboo becomes maible due to the heat and sure enough it bends. Once the bend is made a rope is tied around the top of the bamboo and it us pulled down and wrapped around a large stone or weighted with timbers and stones for several days. The bamboo will then maintain this bent shape where the fire had heated up the fibers in the bamboo. It is certainly low-tech but very effective.

 

Note: just continue to keep the fire of the torches in a general area but keep the fire moving up and down were it is not maintained in one spot for too long. You only want to heat the fiber not catch the bamboo on fire.

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trthebees

Love the old Stanley plane. Bet you wish you has a router.

 

Nice job James. Looks like you guys know what they are doing.

 

I've got a 10 year old sailing dinghy I made with 1/4" Santa Clara. It's fine for the purpose.

 

I steeped mine with Cord Laminating Epoxy to keep the water out. There's plenty of filler material in the Pioneer Marine Epoxy, but it's good stuff.

 

If you can find some epoxy reducer there, it can be thinned down and used as an epoxy base coat. lacquer thinner will do in a pinch, but proper reducer is better. The idea is to try and soak it through from both sides. If you paint it with reduced epoxy, and then use clear plastic sheet and squeegee out all of the air bubbles, you end up with a finish like glass when you peel off the plastic. It saves a huge amount of sanding and stops any runs. Try a bit as an experiment.

 

I just use the nails to hold the plywood until the epoxy has kicked. I leave the heads protruding and then remove them. The epoxy bond on the wood is far stronger than the nails. And the nails slowly loosen over the years as the hull flexes giving the water a way into the wood.

 

If you can afford it. Bulk up that epoxy with corn starch or talk and make a nice smooth fillet on every internal angled corner, then glass mat tape.

 

Are you going to scarf joint the ply before fixing or just butt joint it?

 

Keep the reports coming, great project.

An excellent post. Most definitely the most valuable thing you can do is to coat the whole boat in bare wood everywhere inside and out with a good laminating epoxy Wipe it with reducer, then apply a reduced first coat. Then another coat of epoxy. Be aware the coat will take some hours or a day or two to cure. Any fillets or filing needed, I prefer to use laminating epoxy with some filler powder or some matting which could be chopped up if wanted. I've found it better than using the pioneer etc readymix.

(Actually, as an aside, there's a lot of patching up done round here with the readymixes. lt fails after a couple of years cos it sets rather hard, and doesn't cope with wood movement. It's not too much of an issue because they are for the most part local fishermen with simple paddle boats trying to keep fishing, and a simple quick repair with a lick of paint, and back out fishing in the evening is more important)

I bought my epoxy from Polymer products in Mandaue.

And paint with an epoxy system.

The whole point, apart from providing a physically tough coating, is to completely seal the wood against permeating moisture from the atmosphere which causes expansion and contraction. Simpler paint coatings let vapour pass through. 

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They call it "Chinese Bamboo" around here but I've no idea of the species.

 

Yes, that is what we used, you will generally find it growing near a water source.

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JamesMusslewhite

They call it "Chinese Bamboo" around here but I've no idea of the species.

 

there are 62 known species of bamboo here in the Philippines there are six of those which has the thick culm walls and big-diameter culms and the locals call Chinese bamboo. Two are actually from China, two are native to the Philippines, one from India and the other from all places is from Columbia. All six are excellent for construction projects, home building and outriggers for boats. The bamboo varieties with the thinner culms make good cheap furniture but are lousy for outriggers as that are just two flexable and lack the needed tensile strength. One good wave and they can easily snap or fail and leave you in a world of hurt on a nasty day out on the open water. The thicker the clum walls the better.    .

Bambusa bambos (India),

Bambusa oldhamii (China)

Bambusa utilis (Southern China) , 

Dendrocalamus latiflorus (native)

Dendrocalamus giganteus (native)

Guadua angustifolia.(Columbia)

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JamesMusslewhite

2 engines,,wow,,we go water skiing?

The extra motor comes in handy if your pulling a net or you are out in the deep blue 20 miles from any land. It is sure nice to have that spare in a pinch or a jam. Plus of anyone wants to screw with you out on the open water then you can hammer down and really make them work hard for it... My family have run boats this size between Dinagat, Cebu and Bohol so two motors is a good thing to have in a 34 footer and a not-so-bright gent like me playing navigator. I would be tempted.to take it up to Luzon or the just trod down the Eastern coastline of Mindanao to Davao or the Western coastline down to Nasipit or CDO just to pickup fish fry or lobster fingerlings. Boating is one reason why I really I love living in this area. I can always find a way to get myself into some kind of mischief where two motors would be more than handy... :biggrin_01: 

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If you can afford it. Bulk up that epoxy with corn starch or talk and make a nice smooth fillet on every internal angled corner, then glass mat tape.

 

I note that you said that you plan to apply 2 coats of thicker (clear, laminating) epoxy to the outside before the epoxy primer and finishing paint application.

 

That's good, but a much better solution (if you can afford it) is to progressively apply even the lightest/thinnest layer of (preferably double bias cloth, or cheaper glass matt) over the 1st coat, before it cures and then apply the 2nd coat over the top (using fibreglassing rollers to squeeze out any air bubbles as you go).

 

If you do this, don't add any thinner- it evaporates out leaving holes/weak spots. Just apply a bit more effort working the thicker stuff!

 

You won't have much time to do it before the epoxy cures in Phils temperatures, so you need to be well organised, with several rollers and 2 or 3 workers to do it well. 1 man exclusively "clean" handling cutting and fitting the dry glass and the rest (inevitably getting messy with epoxy) measuring and supplying batches of epoxy and doing the rolling.

 

That would be a dramatically better solution - it locks-in the relatively expensive epoxy reasonably cheaply and prevents any future cracking - you will never regret having spent the extra money.

 

Good luck with your project!

 

Looking Good!

 

I'm getting deja vu reading your account. (been there-done that)

 

Thanks for publishing your progress!

 

ps. if you get caught short and the epoxy "goes-off on you" before you can get the next bit done, wait 24hrs till it cures, then fine sand back the join area (to remove the surface wax coating) before doing the next bit. Fresh epoxy won't bond to old epoxy if you don't remove the wax surface.

( I presume that Phils epoxy has wax added to it, so that the skin cures hard? - if it doesn't contain wax, then skin will cure sticky!) Laminating epoxy normally doesn't have added wax.

 

Best you test a bit to find out before starting the main job.

 

pps.

If your resin is laminating resin, it will probaly cure with a sticky surface.

Test  a bit and find out.

Let me know if the test cures sticky and I'll advise you how to deal with that.

 

ppps.

 

Supply yourself and your workers with rubber gloves (cheap, domestic "washing-up" grade - the disposable ones don't last very long) when handling epoxy resin. It is nasty stuff if you get it on your skin (or breath too much of the vapour)

 

Clean up workers and tools with acetone and/or vinegar, then soap and water.

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James, have you thought about putting flotation chambers (filled with expanding foam) fore and aft in this boat (so it will float high enough to bail out the water if it swamps)? You are talking about taking this into open water, so you need to have a way to raise the boat if a wave comes over the gunnel. If a boat sinks too far (so that water is still coming in), it can be very difficult to bail the water out. The only thing that will prevent that (as far as I know) is flotation in the boat.

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thebob

James, have you thought about putting flotation chambers (filled with expanding foam) fore and aft in this boat (so it will float high enough to bail out the water if it swamps)? You are talking about taking this into open water, so you need to have a way to raise the boat if a wave comes over the gunnel. If a boat sinks too far (so that water is still coming in), it can be very difficult to bail the water out. The only thing that will prevent that (as far as I know) is flotation in the boat.

 

In a banka it's only a problem if you lose the outriggers. They should have enough buoyancy to keep the thing afloat. In a swamped banka you just move everyone to the stern to raise the bow, then rush forward.

 

A determined man with a bucket can beat any pump ever made.

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JamesMusslewhite

Very interesting thread, thanks James.  I still hope you get to build the PT boat one day.

 

http://www.livingincebuforums.com/topic/21458-pt-boat-devil-boats-style-hulls/?hl=%2Bboat+%2Bbuilding

 

It is a pipe dream which I hope to make a reality, it's one of the reasons I decided to start building a few small businesses to fund building the boat. It would really cost no more than a good size two story home here. Being only 57 I certainly still have time on my side. I still try to collect all the information that I can on the specs of the hull. They where primary 78-82 footers depending on the designer. I want to do a 3/4 size (65 footer) using the same hull design but the interior will be all pleasure craft. Sort of like a small condo unit that floats with separate captain and crew quarters. I can run the beast until I have finally had enough of touring and exploring these islands, then decide if I want to sell the beast if my son does not want it. If he does then I will hand him the keys.

 

I see you found that old thread on PT boats I posted a while back.

http://www.livingincebuforums.com/topic/21458-pt-boat-devil-boats-style-hulls/

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JamesMusslewhite

Love the old Stanley plane. Bet you wish you has a router.

 

Nice job James. Looks like you guys know what they are doing.

 

I've got a 10 year old sailing dinghy I made with 1/4" Santa Clara. It's fine for the purpose.

 

I steeped mine with Cord Laminating Epoxy to keep the water out. There's plenty of filler material in the Pioneer Marine Epoxy, but it's good stuff.

 

If you can find some epoxy reducer there, it can be thinned down and used as an epoxy base coat. lacquer thinner will do in a pinch, but proper reducer is better. The idea is to try and soak it through from both sides. If you paint it with reduced epoxy, and then use clear plastic sheet and squeegee out all of the air bubbles, you end up with a finish like glass when you peel off the plastic. It saves a huge amount of sanding and stops any runs. Try a bit as an experiment.

 

I just use the nails to hold the plywood until the epoxy has kicked. I leave the heads protruding and then remove them. The epoxy bond on the wood is far stronger than the nails. And the nails slowly loosen over the years as the hull flexes giving the water a way into the wood.

 

If you can afford it. Bulk up that epoxy with corn starch or talk and make a nice smooth fillet on every internal angled corner, then glass mat tape.

 

Are you going to scarf joint the ply before fixing or just butt joint it?

 

Keep the reports coming, great project.

You know in a way I am glad I do not have an electric router. There is something about a hammer and chisel that is almost primal and it gives one a sense of an older simpler time. We have two electric drills yet we primary find ourselves grabbing the hand drill, and the electric planner is never used as the old hand plainer gets all the workout. I have waited almost 3 years to start this project so there is a certain satisfaction doing it all by hand. Hell I have a electric jigsaw and skill saw yet we have yet to use them even for cutting the plywood. It feels almost artsy. I only regret not having more money to invest in the project right now, because I will have to cut some corners and opt for some cheaper options. This will mean I will have to dry-dock the boat in the near future and re-sand the boat and re-epozy and re-paint, upgrade the motor and add second motor and prop. I am fighting a budget, the weather and time as I need to get this boat in the water so I can get it working for me so I can get to the lobster huts, the fish traps and make supply runs to the city. I will get to enjoy some fishing on the side but by the end of December the rainy season starts and it will literately pound almost nonstop for months. But I can have the satisfaction of knowing the woodwork is solid and sound and that is the main thing, everything else is cosmetics and upgrades. I still have two 45 footers I know I will be building over the next few years and those I hope to not have to cut these same corners then and can really take my time to do them up right.

 

I'm lucky because my wife's family are decent boat builders so I have been able to work well with them as it has been easy to stay on the same page. There is not attitude issues, senseless debates or miscommunications. I merely tell them what needs to be accomplished and they find the material and help iron out all the kinks and wrinkles. I can not wait until I can start on one of these larger boats.  .  

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