Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
JamesMusslewhite

New Boat Build Project - (Totally Rebuilding an Older Boat)

Recommended Posts

JamesMusslewhite

Clear what??? Apology? What is that?

Sorry had a big barangay bash last night and I got just a little more than hammered drinking with the officials. I do not remember if I wrote that out of a brain fart moment or if at the time I was somehow trying to be humorous. That should have read as 'clear epoxy'. I'm leaning more towards it just being a brain fart  I was walking home sideways like a crab in a zig-zag pattern which is quite a feat when using a cane, and did quite an impressive belly-flop into the rice patty when I auspiciously stepped from the path leading to our dwelling. I was told it was as gracious as it was humorous to all those accompanying me. It left quite an impression... :biggrin_01:

Edited by JamesMusslewhite
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bill H

Yup Tuba will do it to ya' every time!  How's the head?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
woodchopper

there is some quite tidy looking new diesel motors here in the city james,,i looked a few b4,,let me know if u want details/prices etc,,i would gladly walk down and find  etc etc 4 u!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oz Jon

That little curve can make all the difference of climbing a wave or having the bow or stern pushed down by the force as it is like a curved tip of a slicing blade.

 

James,

 

Here is a neat llttle trick you can add (even after the boat is finished) to help ensure that the bow doesn't dig too far into waves.

 

Fit a pair of  about 2" x 3/4" x 2-3' long strips (almost longitudinally, but a bit higher at the front than the back) on edge at the bow, about half-way up from the waterline.

 

As the bow starts to seriously dig into a wave, these strips progressively deflect water out sideways and down, helping to lift the bow. They may also reduce spray from the bow when (most of the time) not being immersed.

 

Simple, cheap, effective and they double-up as a bit of glancing-blow collision protection - (we all do it sometime!)

Edited by Oz Jon
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JamesMusslewhite

Thank YOU sir!   very informative thread.  I really had no idea how all these Bancas were put together.      I would like to see some information on what to look for when purchasing a second hand boat.

I have bought a few here over the years and I learned the hard-way on my first purchase. It was a 26 footer that I purchased from a Surigao expat. I was told it was a sound boat with all the parts (no motor included) which was being stored at a friends house. I went over and looked at the boat. This was in early 2009 and the price asked was 6,000php. I paid the man did the paperwork and then went to get the boat. Then I found out the floorboards were missing, the bamboo outriggers and bamboo wing floaters he showed me actually belonged to the local Filipino friend who was watching the boat, and that the expat had actually sold the rudder to the boat earlier to his Filipino friend. When I informed the expat of the discrepancies he merely shrugged it off and implied that he did not know and he had already spent the money.. Two options were left to me at that point, option 'A' beat the little weasel, or option 'B' just chalk-up the loss as a learning experience. I was surprised that I actually picked option 'B' but I had to spend almost another 6,000php to purchase all the items that were missing and get it over to Dinagat Island were I discovered the plywood bottom had dry rot having been sitting upside down in the full sun. So 12,000php for something fit only for burning, and at the time 15,000 would have purchased a new boat of that size (without motor), or a good used boat of that size with a motor included. Later I talked to another expat who had come to the Surigao City to visit his girlfriend and discovered that the boat actually belonged to him and that the expat sold they boat without even asking him first.

Lessons learned?

A. Trust nobody on just their word.

B. See the boat first with all parts accounted for, and have these parts listed in writing and signed by the seller before payment.

C. Check around with the locals and find out what the reasonable expected price for a new or used boat.

D. The motor - American or Japanese internal parts because Chinese motors with Chinese internal parts are crap. Some Chinese motors do have Jap parts as they assembly-line for Japanese companies. Go to the local dealers who sell boat motors and ask "Chinese components?" or ''Japanese components?" and they will both know and tell you. That little fact I learned a couple of years back when I was going to all the shops selling motors here, and it is important to ask. Same identical motor can be found in different shops and some came off the assembly-line with Chinese components and the other with Japanese components. Trust me the dealer knows, and if he acts like he doesn't then he is either an idiot or a shyster so do yourself a favor and just walk out and go to another shop.  

E. Look how the hull frame is put together. As you see in my photos the horizontal board running down the length of the hull frame on the inside. This should be thicker than the ribs and notched the fit over the ribs. Some boat builders will cut these only to fit between the ribs which give not real strength to the sides of the boat. Trust me, if they did that than they probably also cut every corner possible when building the boat. Walk away, you will find a better built boat for the same price. They can paint it where it looks really nice and hide all the flaws, but a well built fame is easy to spot. 

F. Look at the seams were the plywood comes together and joins very closely. Sometimes they will try to wood putty cracks, splinters and seems, but like with bondo on a car, if you look closely you can see where it shows under the new paint because there will be a discoloring under the paint.

G. Do not be in a big hurry to buy a boat. Lewis's Law, "A better deal always comes, after you have already made the purchase." Man, it that true when looking for boats here in the Philippines. Due diligence can serve you well in this case of finding a quality used boat. Locals will try to give you the 'Long-nose Tax' just write down a more-than-fair offer with your cell phone number if you think they are trying to over-price you on a boat. They will look at that number you quoted on that piece of paper and odds are they will call you and settle on your price. If not, than don't sweat it because there is always another boat for sale here in the Philippines.

 

these are the main thing I can think of right now, but I am sure others can add to that list of "what to look out for'.     

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JamesMusslewhite

Well yesterday we took a trip to the city and purchased the plywood for the hull skin. The boat is 33 foot 9 inches in length so we only needed 5 sheets. The shop where we went actually carries 1/4 inch #1 grade Santa Rosa marine plywood @ 700php per sheet 

 

I also did some pricing on boat motors, specifically 20HP diesel engines I did find one that interest me which was a 'Yama' brand made in China. The price was 19,000php and they will allow me to put one on a lay-a-way plan. I have to go out of country by the 15th of March to do the Visa run so once I am back I can put down a deposit and than pay it off over a few months. I was told by some of the locals here that the 'Yama' brand engines have a good reputation for being both an affordable and a reliable motor, and that repair parts are available in this area. I have seen 'Yama' pumps and generators being sold both here and in Cebu. Have any of you guys actually heard of the brand and perhaps have some dependable information on these engines? Yes I know Kabota, Yamaha, and Hondas are vastly superior brands but their cost also reflects this which for now puts them well out of my price range.   

Edited by JamesMusslewhite
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JamesMusslewhite

there is some quite tidy looking new diesel motors here in the city james,,i looked a few b4,,let me know if u want details/prices etc,,i would gladly walk down and find  etc etc 4 u!

 

Yes please do. I did find one here in Surigao City that caught my eye as it was within my price range. The brand name is 'Yama' and they have a 20HP diesel engine that is 19,000php new still in the box. I do not really like the fact that it is a Chinese engine but if properly maintenanced and broken in properly it should be good for a couple of years. The shop will even allow me to do a short lay-a-way term with them. Right now this is rather beneficial as I am on a tight budget and this will allow me to spread out the payment over a few months. I still have to commit funds to several projects in the works and I have to do a Visa run by this coming March 15th. I might have to go cheap over being able to get a better quality boat motor and just plan on trying to upgrade to a better engine sometime in the near future. So I am quite interested in any information you might find out  It could give more options. Thanks for the offer.  

Edited by JamesMusslewhite
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
woodchopper

ok,,i pm u later

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
woodchopper

james,,the Yama brand in 16hp is about K18p

 

but,,there is a genuine Kawasaki 14php for k16.5p(best choice if enough grunt?) here in colon

 

diesels

Edited by woodchopper
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
thebob

The brand name is 'Yama' and they have a 20HP diesel engine that is 19,000php new still in the box.

 

Dont confuse it with the Japanese brand Yanmar, which are excellent.

 

james,,the Yama brand in 16hp is about K18p

 

but,,there is a genuine Kawasaki 14php for k16.5p(best choice if enough grunt?) here in colon

 

diesels

 

The twin cylinder Kawasaki/Kubota diesels are great value.

 

2 cylinder Mitsubishi diesels C45 and C50 are also worth looking at. The matching "tractor" transmissions are good low range forward and reverse boxes, but make sure your propshaft is isolated with a good thrust bearing.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JamesMusslewhite

Well the last few days has been occupied with doing all the needed details to the hull frame. This involved finishing all the need mitering of the frame with chisels so all the needed areas on the frame are properly recessed to allow for the thickness of the plywood which must be both epoxied and nailed to the outside of the hull frame. Then all the surfaces that will come in contact to the plywood outer skin must be checked, prepped and sanded. Patience, attention to detail and due diligenceis paramount at this stage because once the epoxy is applied to the outer surface of the hull frame is certainly not the time for unexpected surprises. There are two peals of wisdom that come to mind.

 

"There is never enough time to do it right, but always time to do it over" Benjamin Franklin

 

"Measure twice cut once." proverb

 

I want to mention what wood types are used in the boat construction. The names of the woods are in Visayan/Surigonoan  

Top Rails of hull frame - 'Kujait' wood

Bow and Stern Boards - 'Kajait' wood

Ribs of hull frame - 'Lawa-an' wood

all Cross Bracing of hull frame - 'Lawa-an' wood

Original Hull Plank - 'Lawa-an' wood.

Plywood for hull skin - 1/4 inch #1 grade marine 'Santa Rosa'

 

I will now post some photos so I can show certain details and additions to the hull frame which can help show some areas where members may want more detail or show just how certain additions are constructed. First is the mitering and chisel work I have mentioned several times throughout this thread so far. The wood of this hull frame as as follows. This must be done along the full length of the outside bottom of the top rail of the hull frame an along the whole length of the solid hull plank on both sides of the boat, and also on both sides of both the Bow Board and Stern Board. This is so when the plywood is nailed and epoxied to the outside of the hull frame it will be flush with the outside edge of the Hull Plank, bottom outside edge of the Top Rail, outside surface of both the Bow and Stern Boards; but also allowing a flush smooth contact with all outside surfaces of the Rails and Middle Rails of the hull frame. As the plywood hull skin is being nailed to the hull frame as generous amount of epoxy is applied to all the outside surfaces that will come into contact with the plywood. The first photo shows the mitering done to the outside of the Hull Plank, second photo shows the mitering done to the bottom outside edge of the Top Rail and the third photo shows the mitering done on the outside back of the Bow Board which is also who the Stearn Board is mitered. .       

 

12115728_10205679873295967_7786257986656

12108148_10205679877696077_8931557255826

12141633_10205694247895323_2877572056197

 

A support was added to the middle Rib of the hull frame for the Middle Rail merely for additional support for the Middle Rail, this is to help prevent any possible bend or break due to normal usage of the boat. Just a precautionary addition to help prevent any future mishap. This was done under the Middle Rail on the extra thick Rib I had earlier mentioned that there were three heaver Ribs which were spaced where the bamboo outriggers will be attached to the top of the hull frame to attach and support the Bamboo Wings on both sides of the boat..

12115920_10205694253575465_3869495690648

12144826_10205694253055452_6488598869389 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JamesMusslewhite

Tools and material used are pretty basic and brass nails and marine epoxy is being used throughout the construction of the boat. Later two coats of thick clear epoxy will be applied to all the surfaces inside the boat to help further strengthen the hull frame and the plywood outer hull shin. Once dry then an epozy primer coat will be added before the base paint. This will help protect all the wood surfaces from the effects of the weather and saltwater. But that will all be covered later on when the boat progresses to that point. Now to basic needs: Actually tools are quite basic, saws (well sharpened), assortment of chisels sizes, straight edge, squares, hammers, screwdrivers, rulers, plainer and brushes.

12122460_10205679878616100_2968740542579

12072770_10205679880976159_1978598585870

 

Plenty of decent quality marine epozy

12074753_10205694252615441_4223620164610

 

and an brass nails (brass does not suffer the ill-effects of saltwater) and only use quality stainless steel bolts, nuts and screws as the saltwater will cause standard hardware to quickly corrode. This not a good thing to happen to all the nails screws and bolts holding your boat together.

10174785_10205694248775345_4321300433545 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JamesMusslewhite

Closer details showing the propeller shaft and how it is setup and placed. I will cover this in much more detail at a later time when we go to install the motor and connect the propeller shaft to the motor and I will go into more detail on what type of pipe is used and the gasket pictured in the last photo. This for now is to merely to show what is needed as it relates to the framing and to the positioning. It is far easier to view this before the plywood skin is added. 

12063296_10205676305406772_6260057154621

 

12140592_10205679867815830_2280336582020

 

11218620_10205676308646853_5753837489275

 

12107128_10205676306126790_1377209645231

 

12096109_10205679867055811_2220066280567

Edited by JamesMusslewhite
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
thebob

Love the old Stanley plane. Bet you wish you has a router.

 

Nice job James. Looks like you guys know what they are doing.

 

I've got a 10 year old sailing dinghy I made with 1/4" Santa Clara. It's fine for the purpose.

 

I steeped mine with Cord Laminating Epoxy to keep the water out. There's plenty of filler material in the Pioneer Marine Epoxy, but it's good stuff.

 

If you can find some epoxy reducer there, it can be thinned down and used as an epoxy base coat. lacquer thinner will do in a pinch, but proper reducer is better. The idea is to try and soak it through from both sides. If you paint it with reduced epoxy, and then use clear plastic sheet and squeegee out all of the air bubbles, you end up with a finish like glass when you peel off the plastic. It saves a huge amount of sanding and stops any runs. Try a bit as an experiment.

 

I just use the nails to hold the plywood until the epoxy has kicked. I leave the heads protruding and then remove them. The epoxy bond on the wood is far stronger than the nails. And the nails slowly loosen over the years as the hull flexes giving the water a way into the wood.

 

If you can afford it. Bulk up that epoxy with corn starch or talk and make a nice smooth fillet on every internal angled corner, then glass mat tape.

 

Are you going to scarf joint the ply before fixing or just butt joint it?

 

Keep the reports coming, great project.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
woodchopper

did u decide what donk to put in james,,that 14hp kwakka seems a good price if the HP was enough?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use, Privacy Policy and Guidelines. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue..