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Marines say they don't want women


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There is a website called "Women of the IDF". On it, it says that women are eliglible for only 89% of the jobs in the IDF.  The Israelis once tried for 100%, but it didn't work out.

Just a coincidence that depending on the type of mission statement less than 15% of MOS's are ground ponder actual front line combatants?

 

" On Friday, the Marines announced they would open armored units to women, but would seek to keep several front-line combat jobs – infantry and artillery (my edit)-- closed, a senior military official told Fox News.That would buck the trend being followed by the other three military services."

 

Those are positions in which if you do not have enough upper body strength and stamina people will die.

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Irenicus

What with being out on ships all the tinme, Marines haven't wanted women for a while.

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smokey

Well why would they want women in combat it would spoill their time at the Bar and with the bar fine..

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Well why would they want women in combat it would spoill their time at the Bar and with the bar fine..

Maybe we are gonna see women only bars with male dancers....   that would cause a conundrum in Angeles...

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broden

there should be no affirmative action.

 

everyone should have to deal with the same requirements.

 

even more so when it is something where others lives might depend on your abilities

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smokey

Maybe we are gonna see women only bars with male dancers....   that would cause a conundrum in Angeles...

 

could have 3 bars ... one with male dancers ...one female dancers and one with half half

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Nangulo

I was grading a battle stations drill on a Navy destroyer back in '98 or '99.  The ship had about 350 folks and had been co-ed for a number of years.  But it was the law of large numbers that got in the way of her battle readiness.  This destroyer had standard hatches - steel, horizontal doors hinged on one end and held open at a 45 degree angle by two stanchions so that personnel could descend or ascend a ladder to the next deck.   When the ship goes to battle stations, 2 people are assigned to pull the stanchions, lower the hatch and secure the dogs to make the opening watertight.  The people are assigned to this task, and others, as they come into the organization.  When the battle stations alarm sounded, I watched what must have been the two smallest females on the ship attempt to do this task.  They couldn't.  They didn't have the strength.  This could be viewed as something that can be designed out of future ships, and I actually think that is the case.  But you cannot design everything out that requires strength.  

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JamesMusslewhite

Marines can easily carry 150 lbs or more distributed around their persons. Then if they are on 50 cal. teams, mortar teams, or Comm tech which then must carry extra ammo, tripods, tubes, weapon or tool kits add even more weight needed to be carried. This does not even include and extra gear, supplies or munitions which must be distributed among the group over their already required gear. Sometimes I had over 200lbs of weight on a 170 lb frame and had that weight added to as physically fit men dropped out of marches or were injured as it is required to then distribute their gear, ammo and weapons among us.

 

Yes I agree that there are some woman who may be able to handle the physical stress of the weight and could endure the force marches over a multitude of terrains and conditions, but their numbers are very few. In a combat situation you do not need to subject men in dealing to cover the slack of weaker members within their units. 'Please pick this up, carry this, or do this because it's too heavy or difficult for a girl' situations being imposed on Marines in combat merely so the Corps can pacify the PC feminist is rather ridiculous. Keep women in fields and tasks where the majority of women can handle. G.I. Jane was a fictional movie, but combat is a reality. Make the women do the same training, under the same condition, to the same standards without alterations or special condition and if they can then prove they have the right to stand along the side of men. If they fail to complete that standard of training then send them down to fields and tasks they are properly suited.

 

I do not see many, if any, women being actually qualified to be in the Recons. Weak links get good men killed.

Edited by JamesMusslewhite
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Salty Dog

Hmmm ... I never met any jarhead who said he don't want women.

 

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Headshot

there should be no affirmative action.

 

everyone should have to deal with the same requirements.

 

even more so when it is something where others lives might depend on your abilities

 

True...and the standards need to be as high as is necessary for the job to be done. If the female requirements are high enough for being a Marine, then the male requirements should be dropped. If they aren't high enough, then keep the male requirements and force any female recruit to meet them if they want to be a Marine. Obviously, being a clerk and being force recon take different levels of strength and skill, so specific skill set requirements should be left to the advanced schools. The same standard should be true of the requirements for all advanced schools. If a requirement is necessary to do the job, then ALL candidates must pass the same requirement. Otherwise, you are saying it isn't a requirement in the first place.

 

If the minimum requirements are realistic due to the requirements of a specific job, then they should remain...whether women can meet them or not. It is ludicrous to let a woman pass at a level where a man would fail. If you set the standards at a level appropriate to the job, then only those who can meet those standards will get that job. It will select successful candidates without regard to gender. For instance, if a job requires that those in it be able to carry a 60 kilogram pack for 30 kilometers at double time, then all candidates must do that or fail the course...NO exceptions. There will always be the exceptional woman who can pass such requirements, but they will be rare.

 

Requirements for some schools cull out a lot of men too. In my school, 105 men started the course and 20 of us graduated. If women are allowed into such schools, they should be made to meet the same requirements as men...or fail. Special forces schools (in all branches) have requirements that must be met to even enter the school. That will weed out a lot of people who could never pass the school requirements without having them show up in the fail rate.

Edited by Headshot
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True, what was that old saying " there are no gays in a firefight"? Would still rather have him along side me instead of a woman. 

 

True...and the standards need to be as high as is necessary for the job to be done. If the female requirements are high enough for being a Marine, then the male requirements should be dropped. If they aren't high enough, then keep the male requirements and force any female recruit to meet them if they want to be a Marine. Obviously, being a clerk and being force recon take different levels of strength and skill, so specific skill set requirements should be left to the advanced schools. The same standard should be true of the requirements for all advanced schools. If a requirement is necessary to do the job, then ALL candidates must pass the same requirement. Otherwise, you are saying it isn't a requirement in the first place.

 

If the minimum requirements are realistic due to the requirements of a specific job, then they should remain...whether women can meet them or not. It is ludicrous to let a woman pass at a level where a man would fail. If you set the standards at a level appropriate to the job, then only those who can meet those standards will get that job. It will select successful candidates without regard to gender. For instance, if a job requires that those in it be able to carry a 60 kilogram pack for 30 kilometers at double time, then all candidates must do that or fail the course...NO exceptions. There will always be the exceptional woman who can pass such requirements, but they will be rare.

 

Requirements for some schools cull out a lot of men too. In my school, 105 men started the course and 20 of us graduated. If women are allowed into such schools, they should be made to meet the same requirements as men...or fail. Special forces schools (in all branches) have requirements that must be met to even enter the school. That will weed out a lot of people who could never pass the school requirements without having them show up in the fail rate.

 

Agree as to applies to specific MOS's.  To say a "Marine"  is establishing an unreasonable physical requirement, same as all Fire department personnel. and many other organizations.

 

This is a commentary from a female Marine  who did serve in a combat zone  - worth reading  - if we expected all female Marines to meet the male physical standards of boot camp and beyond there'd be damn few who could.

 

http://www.westernjournalism.com/the-problems-of-women-in-combat-from-a-female-combat-vet/  part 1 

http://www.westernjournalism.com/the-problems-of-women-in-combat-part-2/ 

http://www.westernjournalism.com/the-problems-of-women-in-combat-part-3/ 

 

Side note: This is what is required of marines today  including females with some differences - not the same as the 60's - no more hitting recruits, no PT after gas chamber till you puke if you hadn't before - no derogatory comments " the only thing that comes out of Texas are steers and queers", and I don't remember any mess duty.

 

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marinejoin/a/marinebasic.htm

 

Gas chamber exercise

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marinejoin/a/usmcgasmask.htm

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