thinking out loud

[Paul 55,114]

 

 

Motor cycles use permanent magnet alternators. The rotor is a steel ring with lots of magnets in it and the stator (the bit that stays still) is a bunch of copper coils.   

 

So get a machine shop to adapt a multi cab wheel spindle. Bolt some blades on the rotor and put the lot on a pivot on the top of a pole, with a tail to keep it facing the wind.  

 

The problem is that it will take a lot of wind to start it spinning, but it will be very easy to for it to spin the blades to pieces once it gets going.  

 

Joining the wires together will stop it spinning, so a switch to do that will act as a brake. So what you need is a spring loaded switch activated by the rotation of the hub so that it joins the wires before the hub spins itself to pieces. Very old car distributors used a similar centrifugal switch to advance the ignition. You should be able to adapt one. Find a scrap distributor from a 1960's 4 banger, a VW one would do.  

 

This will give you AC current at a frequency depending on the speed of the rotor. So you need to overpower the the blades, and set the cutoff switch just after it hits 60Hz. Then you get a wall wort transformer, that does 230V to 12V, chop the diodes out of it, and wire it in backwards. This will give you somewhere near 230V AC out, but it will fluctuate horribly with wind speed. It should be OK for light bulbs though!

 

I may be wrong here. And, if I am, apologies to our RC buddy, hilyfe. But, something tells me he is more of the type of a personality who would rather buy a ready made product, than one he would have to fabricate from raw materials.

[hilyfe 1,279]

It's quite easy. Just move a coil of wire through a magnetic field.

 

 

 

 

 

Because the sun doesn't shine at night... but the wind blows.

 

Motor cycles use permanent magnet alternators. The rotor is a steel ring with lots of magnets in it and the stator (the bit that stays still) is a bunch of copper coils. 

 

So get a machine shop to adapt a multi cab wheel spindle. Bolt some blades on the rotor and put the lot on a pivot on the top of a pole, with a tail to keep it facing the wind.

 

The problem is that it will take a lot of wind to start it spinning, but it will be very easy to for it to spin the blades to pieces once it gets going.

 

Joining the wires together will stop it spinning, so a switch to do that will act as a brake. So what you need is a spring loaded switch activated by the rotation of the hub so that it joins the wires before the hub spins itself to pieces. Very old car distributors used a similar centrifugal switch to advance the ignition. You should be able to adapt one. Find a scrap distributor from a 1960's 4 banger, a VW one would do.

 

This will give you AC current at a frequency depending on the speed of the rotor. So you need to overpower the the blades, and set the cutoff switch just after it hits 60Hz. Then you get a wall wort transformer, that does 230V to 12V, chop the diodes out of it, and wire it in backwards. This will give you somewhere near 230V AC out, but it will fluctuate horribly with wind speed. It should be OK for light bulbs though!

 

How about using a battery

The windmill is there only to recharged the battery

Just like the car your using electricity while the battery is being recharged

[hilyfe 1,279]

I may be wrong here. And, if I am, apologies to our RC buddy, hilyfe. But, something tells me he is more of the type of a personality who would rather buy a ready made product, than one he would have to fabricate from raw materials.

that is so true

But its good to use the brain sometimes

And i want to try this you n3ver know w3 might come up with an idea that can help others

In our home town

Theres still lots of people who cant afford a thing

Still using those lamps

[Oz Jon 2,476]

that is so true

But its good to use the brain sometimes

And i want to try this you n3ver know w3 might come up with an idea that can help others

In our home town

Theres still lots of people who cant afford a thing

Still using those lamps

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but a lot of people who appear to be at least as smart as you appear to be, and with certainly much more knowledge of the subject than you, have worked on this problem for many years.

 

Amongst other things, they have come up with inexpensive solar charged lamps, etc - with all of the design and manufacturing etc problems already solved.

 

Now, you figure that you can come along with practically no knowledge of physics, engineering, manufacturing, distribution, etc and invent some great, new, cheap product? ...... Get Real! ....... Rather unlikely!

 

If you want to help people with electricity sources, get involved with one of the organisations already doing this stuff. Or buy the locals  some product that's already available and works.

 

I'm sure that your heart's in the right place, but you are a bit misguided.

[Paul 55,114]

How about using a battery

The windmill is there only to recharged the battery

Just like the car your using electricity while the battery is being recharged

 

Unlike solar, wind turbines need a diversion load to send power to, once the batteries are fully charged. If wind turbines were to spin freely, under no load, they could be damaged. That is, if I understand the mechanics right, here. 

 

Fortunately, though, that diversion load can be an electric element heater (in cold climates), an electric element water heater, some incandescent light bulbs, a pump motor, or any number of other loads that would burn off the unused power being generated, but not needed to charge the battery bank. 

[Oz Jon 2,476]

Unlike solar, wind turbines need a diversion load to send power to, once the batteries are fully charged. If wind turbines were to spin freely, under no load, they could be damaged. That is, if I understand the mechanics right, here. 

 

Fortunately, though, that diversion load can be an electric element heater (in cold climates), an electric element water heater, some incandescent light bulbs, a pump motor, or any number of other loads that would burn off the unused power being generated, but not needed to charge the battery bank. 

You are quite right Paul.

 

Not only an excess load required, but also some kind of (electronic?) gear needed to control load shedding and battery charging.

 

And all this extra complexity costs money - Wind power doesn't look like a good candidate solution for a cheap electricity source ( which hilyfe is seeking).

Edited July 25, 2015 by Oz Jon

[hilyfe 1,279]

I guess windmill is not going to work?

I thought it would be easy

Like that dynamo on a bicycle

You pedal itll turn the dynamo and power the lights

[Oz Jon 2,476]

I guess windmill is not going to work?

I thought it would be easy

Like that dynamo on a bicycle

You pedal itll turn the dynamo and power the lights

No! - wind power is not viable for very cheap solutions on a small scale.

Lots of people before you thought it would be easy - they were wrong!

 

The only viable candidate for very cheap, small sized power supply ( equivalent to, say, just a single lamp, or maybe a cell phone charger, etc) is solar with a re-chargeable battery, operating an LED based light. A much improved version of those very cheap solar garden lamps you can buy for less than $20.

 

Some people have already invented products like this ( I read about some NGO? or religious organisation? distributing such a product to the poor).  They have already solved all the material sourcing, design, manufacturing, etc problems.

 

Maybe you should do some Google searching to find out more about what products they have and what they are doing?

Edited July 25, 2015 by Oz Jon

[Paul 55,114]

 

 

Not only an excess load required, but also some kind of (electronic?) gear needed to control load shedding and battery charging.

 

Yes, of course. A controller. My Midnite Solar "Kid" will work with solar or wind, actually. 

[Paul 55,114]

I guess windmill is not going to work?

I thought it would be easy

Like that dynamo on a bicycle

You pedal itll turn the dynamo and power the lights

 

Well, you could get you a monkey, some bananas, a bicycle, and an alternator connected to the bicycle. That may work and isn't too complex.  

 

Wind will work. The problem is, the Philippines isn't exactly a windy place. Not all the time, anyway. Just not sure how well wind turbines will perform there. We do have a member who set one up. But, again, not sure of his results. He had put one of those Chinese made turbines in the top of a coconut tree, on his property. 

 

If there is a water fall nearby, you could go with hydro. Or, solar would be the two options I would choose for the Philippines. 

[Paul 55,114]

 

 

The only viable candidate for very cheap, small sized power supply ( equivalent to, say, just a single lamp, or maybe a cell phone charger, etc) is solar with a re-chargeable battery, operating an LED based light. A much improved version of those very cheap solar garden lamps you can buy for less than $20.

 

Actually, this may be down his alley, Jon. The SunRaiden project was designed with third world countries in mind. I think, currently, they have a limit of 250 watts for the solar array. At the moment, it is a PWM controller that will provide charging for cell phones, DC (low voltage) lighting, and charge a battery for night time usage through the unit. It will provide 230vac output, as well.

 

hilyfe could get one of those, a single battery, and two 120w solar panels, and be generating power in no time at all. Simple, cost effective, and portable. 

 

Michael Sewanaku, the developer / owner of SunRaiden wanted to help countries in Africa with his invention. I am sure it will be beneficial around the world, though. I can't wait to see them in final production, come September.

[Oz Jon 2,476]

Well, you could get you a monkey, some bananas, a bicycle, and an alternator connected to the bicycle. That may work and isn't too complex.

 

Wind will work. The problem is, the Philippines isn't exactly a windy place. Not all the time, anyway. Just not sure how well wind turbines will perform there. We do have a member who set one up. But, again, not sure of his results. He had put one of those Chinese made turbines in the top of a coconut tree, on his property. 

 

If there is a water fall nearby, you could go with hydro. Or, solar would be the two options I would choose for the Philippines. 

 

The problem we have is it isn't clear what HiLyfe's aims are.

 

I understood him to be looking for a very cheap light source for very poor families. ie - less than $20-$50/family.

And he hopes to invent a new solution himself?

 

If he is prepared to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on a power system for many families then there are many more viable solutions - solar, wind, hydro, diesel.

 

He is unlikely to invent a new superior solution for any of these scenarios - many people with relevant skills have been there before him.

*****************************************************************************************************************************************************

I've just seen Paul's latest contribution - I agree! That's the sort of thing that HiLyf may care to consider if he wants to help the poor. Get on board projects where others have already done the inventing, etc.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Oz Jon

[Paul 55,114]

 

 

I've just seen Paul's latest contribution - I agree! That's the sort of thing that HiLyf may care to consider if he wants to help the poor. Get on board projects where others have already done the inventing, etc.

 

Definitely. There is nothing on the market, currently, that performs all of the duties of this single unit:

 

Charge controller.

Charging for a 12vdc battery.

DC to DC power for charging phones and running lights.

DC to AC power for running AC lighting / appliances.

 

So, no need to buy a separate controller AND inverter. Just add a single battery and at least a single solar panel, and off you go.

[hilyfe 1,279]

Yeah i think the only option is a solar

[Paul 55,114]

Yeah i think the only option is a solar

 

It's too late to get in on their Kickstarter deal. But, keep an eye out, or ask me in a few months, and I can let you know where they are in production. He is going to send a unit here for me to try. I can let you know how it goes.