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nothingbutquestions

Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid)

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cvgtpc1

I am giving it a shot. 48 years old. Test level 460.  Taking 25 mg on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. (Splitting the 50 mg pills).

 

On it for 30 days.  Started cuz I was feeling lethargic quite a bit.  All my lifts in the gym have gone up and my bodyfat level is dropping. Feeling better as well - more energy.

Gonna get test level checked in another couple of months to see if any actual change.

 

460 is still a good level and in the US at least a US MD wouldn't treat you for low T.

 

I tried shots and gels and couldn't get them till T levels went below 300.  Tried them though and didn't see enough change to warrant taking them.  Now finding losing weight (gym/diet) and learning to leave work at work is working better than any med.

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Headshot

Here's the caution: when T rises, E2 is sure to follow

 

E2?

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Bill H

I spoke to my Urologist at the VA when I was back in the States, he is also the staff fertility specialist.  He was very positive about the Clomiphene and the VA will supply them.  He wants me taking 25mg a day as opposed to the 12.5mg every other day routine I've been on.  My cost here is 100p per pill (50mg) at the local pharmacy.  So I split the pills to get the 25mg and my cost per day falls to 50p.  I've been on the higher dose now for about 6 weeks and everything is better with no side effects noted.

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contraman
learning to leave work at work

 

That is the best medicine in the world :)

Edited by contraman

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Bill H

That is the best medicine in the world :)

 

I always thought that honor belonged to a very old single malt Scotch.   :unknw:

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nothingbutquestions

There are several forms of Estrogen: E1 Estrone, E2 Estradiol, and E3 Estriol. 

E2 Estradiol is the most active and, in excess OR when lacking sufficient. messes us up.

Each guy has his own "sweet spot." When we were young under 45, everything worked automagically.

After 45 (for me it was 51), aromatase levels increase and T levels drop and E2 rises. Since most docs are clueless, it's everyman for himself to find what works for him.

This works for me, and I am happy to share it and see that it also works for some of you.

For me, if I can sleep through the night, awaken with morning wood, pee without any issues, then life is good.

Increased drive, slimming waist, better outlook, these are all plusses.

Keep in mind, Test numbers are ONLY NUMBERS. What matters is how YOU feel.

IF at 460 everything is great then don't mess with success. If at 700, there are still issues, , you might want to investigate this or some other way to lower your E2 and increase your T.

FYI, yes your ball sacs will grow.

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RogerDat

Here is an article about T causing the prostate gland to shrink, and increase urine flow, an effect I have noticed.

http://www.empoweryourhealth.org/vol1-issue2/Testosterone-and-Mens-Health

 

page22-top.jpg

Today’s man, especially the mature man, is under assault. Each night as he tunes into the evening news or his favorite TV sports event he cannot escape the relentless attack on his masculinity. One after another prime time advertisers remind him that he is no longer as young as he once was- he spends too much time in the bathroom trying to urinate and too little time in the bedroom having sex. He is encouraged to “Speak with your doctor.” But which doctor should he speak to about these problems? Both urination and the ability to have sexual intercourse require normal male genital function. In the past, his Urologist, someone familiar with male genital anatomy, may have been consulted to help him cope with these problems. Today, however, he might want to chat with his Endocrinologist who has a better understanding of the male sexual chemistry needed to allow a man to urinate effortlessly and acquire and maintain penile erections firm enough to allow him to have and enjoy sexual intercourse.

One hormone (testosterone) plays a critical role in man’s problems with urination and sexual function as he ages. With advancing years, the testosterone made in a man’s testicles enters his blood stream and then penetrates his prostate gland. There, under the influence of an enzyme (5-alpha reductase), testosterone is transformed into another hormone dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and it is the increasing level of intraprostatic DHT that is the culprit responsible for the age-related increase in the size of a man’s prostate. His prostate gland is anatomically positioned right next to his urethra (the tube in the penis through which man urinates). Pressure from the bulging prostate on the urethra causes a blockade impeding the flow of urine, making it difficult for a man to release all the urine stored in his bladder. He is left with a sensation of fullness, as well as a need to urinate more often. Years ago, prostate surgery to whittle down the size of the prostate was the only way to alleviate pressure on the bladder so that urine could flow more freely.

Now that we know that the hormone DHT is directly responsible for prostate growth, there are other options. Some men have low DHT levels because they are born without the enzyme needed to transform testosterone to DHT. These men have tiny prostate glands that never enlarge. To mimic this experiment of nature, medications (finasteride (Proscar) and dutasteride (Avodart)) have been developed. These medications block the conversion of testosterone to DHT and short-circuit the stimulus to prostate growth. Treatment with either medication brings about a decline in the amount of DHT stored in the prostate. As DHT levels within the prostate decline, the prostate becomes smaller and no longer impinges on the urethra allowing men to urinate more freely.

Testosterone and Sexual Function in Young and Not-So-Young Men

There is a moment in every man’s life, coinciding with the teenage surge in testosterone release into his blood stream, when he wakes every morning with an erection and quite suddenly starts to experience sexual feelings. The morning erections are due to a diversion of blood flow into specialized spongy tissue in his penis called corpora cavernosae. As the pressure within these areas increases, his penis swells and then becomes rigid enabling him to have sexual intercourse. As a young man, the flow of blood into his penis is free and uninterrupted so that he can experience an erection without difficulty. His interest in sex (libido) is, however, testosterone dependent. As long as blood flows freely in his body, he can experience erections; and, as long as his testicles churn out a full quotient of testosterone, interest in sex is sustained. Unfortunately, over time as a man gets older he may acquire new habits and problems that disrupt both his natural sexual energy and sexual potency. For instance, he may not always eat properly, exercises less, starts to put on weight, becomes addicted to smoking cigarettes, and could be prone to the development of diabetes and high cholesterol levels. These are behaviors that individually and collectively start damaging blood vessels in his body limiting the flow of blood to his vital organs. If blood flow through his coronary arteries is diminished, he has chest pain (angina), whereas leg cramps (claudication) are the natural consequence of diminished blood flow to his lower extremities. An inability to acquire or maintain an erection is inevitable if blood flow to the penis is compromised.

Fortunately, there are now three different medications sildenafil (Viagra), vardenafil (Levitra) and tadalafil (Cialis) to help with this problem. All increase blood flow to the erectile chamber of the penis and improve a man’s chance of acquiring and maintaining an erection in response to sexual stimulation. They were thought to be the only medication men with erectile dysfunction would need to become sexually potent again. Unfortunately, none of these medications are always effective for all men. Some men fail to benefit from these medications because in addition to low blood flow they also have low serum testosterone levels. In the original studies of sildenafil (Viagra), vardenafil (Levitra) and tadalafil (Cialis) men with low testosterone levels were not allowed to participate. We now know why. It turns out that an enzyme within the penis nitric oxide synthetase (NOS) must be present in ample amounts for all of these erection enhancers to work. Men with low testosterone levels have low NOS levels and that is why they do not have erections after using sildenafil (Viagra), vardenafil (Levitra) or tadalafil (Cialis). Testosterone treatment normalizes testosterone levels; and, once this occurs, men can once again experience erections when they use either sildenafil (Viagra), vardenafil (Levitra) or tadalafil (Cialis). Not only is the maintenance of a normal testosterone level vital for a man’s sexual health, it now appears to be critical for his emotional health and possibly his longevity as well. Recent studies indicate that when men experience depression all do not respond equally to antidepressant medication. Some men, especially those with low testosterone levels, remain depressed until testosterone treatment is added to their antidepressant medication.

Testosterone and Longevity

Surprisingly, there are other risks for men with testosterone deficiency. Men with low testosterone levels do not live as long as men with normal testosterone levels. In one study, 794 men had serum testosterone levels measured and then followed for 11.8 years. Those with the lowest serum testosterone level (241 ng/dl)* were more likely to have died during those 11.8 years than age-matched men with normal testosterone levels.

Testosterone and the Annual Physical

Today, men show up for their annual physical and can expect to have measurements of height, weight, blood pressure, A1c to check for diabetes (one out of every three men with age-related diabetes have low testosterone levels), as well as a cholesterol screen. Considering the importance of testosterone in man’s sexual, and emotional health, as well as his longevity, perhaps it is now time for serum testosterone measurements to be included as part of the routine annual physical for all men.

*(280-800 ng/dl is the normal male testosterone range.)

This article is concurrently being published in Review of Endocrinology

drrichard.jpgRichard Spark, MD, FACE, received his undergraduate training at Yale and his medical degree from Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine where he was elected to Alpha Omega Alpha. His research papers have been published in several major medical journals. Dr. Spark is co-author of the recently published AACE Clinical Practice Guidelines on Hypogonadism and Erectile Dysfunction. Dr. Spark has written three books on men’s health and has also written for articles that have appeared in the New York Times Sunday Magazine and the New Republic. He and his wife have been married for 48 years and they have four wonderful children, one grandson and twin granddaughters.

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nothingbutquestions

Never rely on one article, one test result, or one man's opinion. Do your research and see what works for your body. You are all that matters.

 

Current research shows the medical researchers still do not know why the prostate grows. They see the symptom and design a way to fix the symptom, but they do not understand the root cause.

BUT they will sell you drugs that might fix the problem and have a few "side effects" for no extra charge.

 

I'll stick with having my own body produce a higher level of testosterone and keep my E2 in check. Works for me.

 

Ran across a great quote: "You cannot outexercise a poor diet."

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cvgtpc1

 

 

Ran across a great quote: "You cannot outexercise a poor diet."

You got that brother....much easier to skip the Big Mac than eat it and burn it off...

Here is an article about T causing the prostate gland to shrink, and increase urine flow, an effect I have noticed.

http://www.empoweryourhealth.org/vol1-issue2/Testosterone-and-Mens-Health

 

 

page22-top.jpg

Today’s man, especially the mature man, is under assault. Each night as he tunes into the evening news or his favorite TV sports event he cannot escape the relentless attack on his masculinity. One after another prime time advertisers remind him that he is no longer as young as he once was- he spends too much time in the bathroom trying to urinate and too little time in the bedroom having sex. He is encouraged to “Speak with your doctor.” But which doctor should he speak to about these problems? Both urination and the ability to have sexual intercourse require normal male genital function. In the past, his Urologist, someone familiar with male genital anatomy, may have been consulted to help him cope with these problems. Today, however, he might want to chat with his Endocrinologist who has a better understanding of the male sexual chemistry needed to allow a man to urinate effortlessly and acquire and maintain penile erections firm enough to allow him to have and enjoy sexual intercourse.

One hormone (testosterone) plays a critical role in man’s problems with urination and sexual function as he ages. With advancing years, the testosterone made in a man’s testicles enters his blood stream and then penetrates his prostate gland. There, under the influence of an enzyme (5-alpha reductase), testosterone is transformed into another hormone dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and it is the increasing level of intraprostatic DHT that is the culprit responsible for the age-related increase in the size of a man’s prostate. His prostate gland is anatomically positioned right next to his urethra (the tube in the penis through which man urinates). Pressure from the bulging prostate on the urethra causes a blockade impeding the flow of urine, making it difficult for a man to release all the urine stored in his bladder. He is left with a sensation of fullness, as well as a need to urinate more often. Years ago, prostate surgery to whittle down the size of the prostate was the only way to alleviate pressure on the bladder so that urine could flow more freely.

Now that we know that the hormone DHT is directly responsible for prostate growth, there are other options. Some men have low DHT levels because they are born without the enzyme needed to transform testosterone to DHT. These men have tiny prostate glands that never enlarge. To mimic this experiment of nature, medications (finasteride (Proscar) and dutasteride (Avodart)) have been developed. These medications block the conversion of testosterone to DHT and short-circuit the stimulus to prostate growth. Treatment with either medication brings about a decline in the amount of DHT stored in the prostate. As DHT levels within the prostate decline, the prostate becomes smaller and no longer impinges on the urethra allowing men to urinate more freely.

Testosterone and Sexual Function in Young and Not-So-Young Men

There is a moment in every man’s life, coinciding with the teenage surge in testosterone release into his blood stream, when he wakes every morning with an erection and quite suddenly starts to experience sexual feelings. The morning erections are due to a diversion of blood flow into specialized spongy tissue in his penis called corpora cavernosae. As the pressure within these areas increases, his penis swells and then becomes rigid enabling him to have sexual intercourse. As a young man, the flow of blood into his penis is free and uninterrupted so that he can experience an erection without difficulty. His interest in sex (libido) is, however, testosterone dependent. As long as blood flows freely in his body, he can experience erections; and, as long as his testicles churn out a full quotient of testosterone, interest in sex is sustained. Unfortunately, over time as a man gets older he may acquire new habits and problems that disrupt both his natural sexual energy and sexual potency. For instance, he may not always eat properly, exercises less, starts to put on weight, becomes addicted to smoking cigarettes, and could be prone to the development of diabetes and high cholesterol levels. These are behaviors that individually and collectively start damaging blood vessels in his body limiting the flow of blood to his vital organs. If blood flow through his coronary arteries is diminished, he has chest pain (angina), whereas leg cramps (claudication) are the natural consequence of diminished blood flow to his lower extremities. An inability to acquire or maintain an erection is inevitable if blood flow to the penis is compromised.

Fortunately, there are now three different medications sildenafil (Viagra), vardenafil (Levitra) and tadalafil (Cialis) to help with this problem. All increase blood flow to the erectile chamber of the penis and improve a man’s chance of acquiring and maintaining an erection in response to sexual stimulation. They were thought to be the only medication men with erectile dysfunction would need to become sexually potent again. Unfortunately, none of these medications are always effective for all men. Some men fail to benefit from these medications because in addition to low blood flow they also have low serum testosterone levels. In the original studies of sildenafil (Viagra), vardenafil (Levitra) and tadalafil (Cialis) men with low testosterone levels were not allowed to participate. We now know why. It turns out that an enzyme within the penis nitric oxide synthetase (NOS) must be present in ample amounts for all of these erection enhancers to work. Men with low testosterone levels have low NOS levels and that is why they do not have erections after using sildenafil (Viagra), vardenafil (Levitra) or tadalafil (Cialis). Testosterone treatment normalizes testosterone levels; and, once this occurs, men can once again experience erections when they use either sildenafil (Viagra), vardenafil (Levitra) or tadalafil (Cialis). Not only is the maintenance of a normal testosterone level vital for a man’s sexual health, it now appears to be critical for his emotional health and possibly his longevity as well. Recent studies indicate that when men experience depression all do not respond equally to antidepressant medication. Some men, especially those with low testosterone levels, remain depressed until testosterone treatment is added to their antidepressant medication.

Testosterone and Longevity

Surprisingly, there are other risks for men with testosterone deficiency. Men with low testosterone levels do not live as long as men with normal testosterone levels. In one study, 794 men had serum testosterone levels measured and then followed for 11.8 years. Those with the lowest serum testosterone level (241 ng/dl)* were more likely to have died during those 11.8 years than age-matched men with normal testosterone levels.

Testosterone and the Annual Physical

Today, men show up for their annual physical and can expect to have measurements of height, weight, blood pressure, A1c to check for diabetes (one out of every three men with age-related diabetes have low testosterone levels), as well as a cholesterol screen. Considering the importance of testosterone in man’s sexual, and emotional health, as well as his longevity, perhaps it is now time for serum testosterone measurements to be included as part of the routine annual physical for all men.

*(280-800 ng/dl is the normal male testosterone range.)

This article is concurrently being published in Review of Endocrinology

drrichard.jpgRichard Spark, MD, FACE, received his undergraduate training at Yale and his medical degree from Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine where he was elected to Alpha Omega Alpha. His research papers have been published in several major medical journals. Dr. Spark is co-author of the recently published AACE Clinical Practice Guidelines on Hypogonadism and Erectile Dysfunction. Dr. Spark has written three books on men’s health and has also written for articles that have appeared in the New York Times Sunday Magazine and the New Republic. He and his wife have been married for 48 years and they have four wonderful children, one grandson and twin granddaughters.

I was told the opposite, that T therapy would enlarge the prostrate and cause less....

 

Wish I had the results some of you have but wasn't doing it for me so stopped.

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BigAl

Never rely on one article, one test result, or one man's opinion. Do your research and see what works for your body. You are all that matters.

 

Current research shows the medical researchers still do not know why the prostate grows. They see the symptom and design a way to fix the symptom, but they do not understand the root cause.

BUT they will sell you drugs that might fix the problem and have a few "side effects" for no extra charge.

 

I'll stick with having my own body produce a higher level of testosterone and keep my E2 in check. Works for me.

 

Ran across a great quote: "You cannot outexercise a poor diet."

What is you're dosage level? And at what level did you start to have to keep your e2 in check? Or is it a time issue not dosage issue? I know manybof the gym guys are dosing at up to 50mg twice a day. Which is double the females fertility use rate and what.... Eight times the the 25mg twice a day??

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nothingbutquestions

As men our enemy is not T, but a lowered level of T due to an elevated E2. DON't LISTEN TO CRAP! Do your own homework! Learn how your body works! Our prostate are small when our T levels are highest from ages 15 to 40. Then T levels drop and the Prostate grows. 2+2=4

 

At 66, I wanted to be what my mind thinks I am. Not the guy I saw in the mirror. Now my time exercising is finally paying benefits and I like what I see and how I feel.

I took my T level at 600 plus and raised it to 900 plus (see my previous post) using 25 mg e.o.d at night because that is when your body makes everything.

IMHO, twice a day is crazy. Your body does not work that way. I take the AI the same way - 1/4 mg e.o.d. at night.

 

You can't fix stupid.Too great a doseage too often is a recipe for disaster. Everything in moderation; nothing in excess.

 

Test your T and, if possible, Free T. You want to use the lowest possible dose to achieve you goal - and nothing more. For me that was 25 mg e.o.d. Keep the AI on hand.

 

I cannot help you with when the E2 became a problem, except as time - post 60 days, but it might be T level related just as easily. Remember I didn't see a  problem until the Prostate swelled. I know the problem disappeared in 3 days after the I started the AI, but I do not know whether it started as quickly as it stopped. It may have been slowly developing, maybe not. Right now with the AI, that is totally academic. Praise God, everything is working.

 

I will test again in late November to verify my T is still above 900 and to see if my Free T has gone up since starting the AI. It certainly feels that way, but the tests will simply document it.

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BigAl

Oh i agree those dosages and schedules are stupid. But I have seen that exact dose discussed on body building Forums.

 

I was just wondering if the e2 problem was due to a hifherndose or just time. I reread your earlier post after I posted. So it appears your not sure but it sounds time. I am having my levels tested I'll keep an eye on them

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nothingbutquestions

It's all about you, your goals, and your body.

It matters not how it is prescribed for ladies unless you happen to have a vagina.

Who knows what trolls are running around the Bodybuilding forums.

As far as I can tell, we are just a bunch of guys trying to sort out the best way to live our lives and take care of our families.

No axes to grind, no products to promote, just sharing what works for us and asking questions.

Good luck to you.

Please post back with your experiences.

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BigAl

I've got some muscle ache from this. Does that go away or has anyone else experienced it? Its not bad just a low grade stiffness at 25mg.

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Bill H

I've got some muscle ache from this. Does that go away or has anyone else experienced it? Its not bad just a low grade stiffness at 25mg.

 

I was concerned about moving up to the 25 mg daily dose from the 12.5 mg every other day dose I was on, but my concerns were unfounded.  I've noticed no adverse effects at all and I feel good.

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