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Young guys like to  say that their pecker is lethargic.   Older guys are more willing to admit that they are having problems getting it up . 

I think you mean 300 mg.  Do you realize how much 300 ml is?  Almost the contents of a soft drink can.  That would take one hell of a syringe and hurt like hell!

Had blood test done at Silliman University hospital (1,500 pesos) today.  Been on 25 mg clomid three times/week for about 90 days.  Test level from today's test is 841. That's a pretty significant in

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I asked my doctor about this and how/why everyone is using it.


He said basically WTF…

Of course he/she did. He/she doesn't get a kickback from the pharmaceutical rep for giving you clomiphene. He/she only gets extra money when they prescribe the $300/month stiuff...

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Any pics...?

<<<<<<<<<< Laughing button pushed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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Greetings! Had a chance to research testosterone and diabetes relationship, and found 2 interesting post.






Neither link will open for me.

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Low Testosterone Guide



The Link Between Low Testosterone and Diabetes


Research shows that low testosterone and diabetes are connected. Find out how and learn about treatment options.





The connection might not seem obvious at first, but low testosterone and diabetes often go hand in hand. In fact, men with type 2 diabetes are twice as likely to have low testosterone as men who don't have diabetes.

However, the link between these two conditions does not mean that low testosterone actually causes diabetes. It is possible that some of the lifestyle factors that increase the risk of diabetes also increase the risk of low testosterone.

The good news? In addition to sticking to a heart-healthy diet and exercise, certain treatments may help both low testosterone and diabetes.

Low Testosterone and Diabetes: What’s the Link?

Low testosterone levels in men are associated with insulin resistance or reduced insulin sensitivity, says Ahmer Farooq, DO, assistant professor of urology at Loyola University Medical Center in Maywood, Ill.

When you have insulin resistance, your body produces insulin but doesn't use it properly. As a result, glucose builds up in your blood rather than being absorbed by cells. Insulin resistance can lead to type 2 diabetes and increase your risk for a number of health problems, including heart disease.

A study published in 2013 in the journal BioMed Research International found that low testosterone levels may help predict if a man will develop insulin resistance or type 2 diabetes in the future. According to the researchers, in a group of more than 300 obese and non-obese men, 44 percent had both type 2 diabetes and low testosterone, compared with 33 percent who had low testosterone but did not have diabetes. The researchers also noted that 25 percent of those with type 2 diabetes and low testosterone were not obese, concluding that low testosterone is linked to insulin resistance regardless of body weight.

Yet, body weight can be a factor. A 2010 study published in the journal Diabetes Care found an inverse relationship between body mass index (BMI) and testosterone levels in men with type 2 diabetes. That means that as a man's BMI increases, his testosterone level falls. Obesity may also be a reversible risk factor for low testosterone levels.

Research also suggests that low testosterone could be a complication of type 2 diabetes involving the pituitary gland. A 2004 study published in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism found that one-third of 103 men with type 2 diabetes had low levels of what’s called free testosterone, or testosterone circulating in the blood that is not bound to a protein called sex hormone binding globulin. Researchers also found that the pituitary glands of these men were not producing enough luteinizing hormone, the hormone that triggers the production of testosterone in the testes.

Managing Diabetes and Low Testosterone

Low testosterone symptoms can include decrease in sex drive, erectile dysfunction, loss of muscle mass, depression, and a lack of energy, Dr. Farooq says. Low testosterone can also cause a decline in bone mass and osteoporosis as well as an increase in belly fat.

Farooq says a heart-healthy diet and exercise should be part of the overall treatment for both low testosterone and diabetes. In fact, a 2011 study published in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism found that certain lifestyle changes, such as losing weight and getting regular exercise, not only raise testosterone levels but also result in a number of other health benefits for overweight men with low testosterone and type 2 diabetes. Another study published in 2013 in the journalHormone and Metabolic Research showed that overweight men who ate fewer calories each day experienced significant increases in their testosterone levels.

In addition to lifestyle changes, your prescribed diabetes treatment plan may include oral medications and/or insulin therapy. A 2014 study published in the European Journal of Endocrinology showed that in people who had just been diagnosed with diabetes, insulin treatment for diabetes also increased levels of sex hormone binding globulin, which translates to more testosterone in the blood stream.

If low testosterone continues to be a problem for you, your doctor may prescribe testosterone replacement therapy, Farooq says. It's important to follow up with your doctor or a certified diabetes educator when you're on these treatments. In some cases, testosterone replacement may increase your insulin sensitivity, and your treatment strategy for type 2 diabetes may need to be adjusted.

But Farooq says that testosterone replacement therapy isn’t for everyone. Before being prescribed medication for low testosterone, men must first be diagnosed through a blood test. Men who may not be candidates for testosterone replacement include those with prostate cancer or breast cancer. Although results are mixed, some research has shown that testosterone replacement therapy may stimulate the growth of prostate cancer and breast cancer. Other potential risks of treatment include infertility and sleep apnea.

"Men need to know that there’s hope for whatever they have and that they shouldn’t feel ashamed,” Farooq says. “If they have any worries about their testosterone levels or any sort of medical issue, they should get it checked out."

Continue to work with your doctor, and you can effectively treat and manage both your diabetes and symptoms of low testosterone.



Testosterone Drugs Not Effective in Men with Type 2 Diabetes



July 28th, 2014

by Michelle Llamas & filed under Dangerous Prescription Drugs.




Testosterone therapy did not help aging, obese men who have Type 2 diabetes and reduced testosterone levels with sexual symptoms and general health, a new study shows.

Berlin-based Bayer Pharma AG who makes the testosterone drug Nebido funded the study published in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism.Researchers found it is unlikely that testosterone therapy could improve erectile function or general health in study participants because testosterone levels are not the only reason for these medical problems.

This is the latest study that calls the effectiveness of the drugs in question. The controversial treatment also has some doctors and patients questioning its safety.

The drugs’ cardiovascular risks led a number of men to file lawsuits against testosterone manufacturers for such complications as heart attacks, strokes and mini-strokes.

“The presence of self-reported depression, but not baseline testosterone levels, was associated with worse aging male symptoms. Similarly, the presence of microvascular diabetic complications, but not testosterone levels, was associated with worse erectile function,” the study said.

The study involved 88 patients aged 35 to 70 with Type 2 diabetes. The test subjects had mild to moderate aging symptoms and erectile dysfunction. The men were randomly assigned to 40 weeks of intramuscular testosterone treatment or a placebo.

Authors used self-administered questionnaires at 0, 18 and 40 weeks to measure general health and sexual symptoms. In addition, they measured total testosterone levels and other biochemical markers through fasting blood tests at 0, 18 and 40 weeks.

The research found that there were no substantial improvements in men using the placebo compared to the treatment.

The study concluded that the trial does not support the use of testosterone therapy to improve general health or sexual symptoms in aging men with Type 2 diabetes.


Low Testosterone May Not Be Caused Solely By Aging

While the study did not find that hormone replacement therapy was beneficial for this subgroup of patients, it did find a relationship between other health conditions in these men that may contribute to low testosterone (Low T).

Study authors said comorbidity – the presence of more than one medical condition simultaneously – causes problems that can’t be cured simply by taking additional testosterone.

Obesity, Type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease and depression are comorbidities that affect testosterone levels in men. The study results suggest that treating comorbidities instead of using hormone therapy might be more beneficial.

“The fact that constitutional and sexual symptoms were associated with depression and with microvascular complications of diabetes, but not with circulating testosterone levels, is consistent with the possibility that prevention and care of comorbidities and of diabetes-related complications may yield more marked symptomatic benefits than testosterone therapy,” researchers wrote.

This was not the first study to explore the effectiveness of hormone replacement therapy in men with comorbidities such as obesity and depression.

Obesity, in particular has a staggering effect on T levels. Previous studies conducted by Bayer showed that obesity is a major cause of Low T, and 75 percent of very obese men have low levels of the hormone.

Last year, two studies, the Men Androgen Inflammation Lifestyle Environment and Stress (MAILES) study and the European Male Aging Study (EMAS) found that comorbidities – and not aging – may be to blame for Low T.

The authors also said it was not clear whether hormone replacement drugs were beneficial or safe.


Benefits of Testosterone Questioned

The study comes as researchers question the effectiveness of Low T medications.

Several studies link the medication to pulmonary embolism and deep vein thrombosis – two types of dangerous blood clots. Low T medications also put women and children at risk from accidental skin exposure. Two of the drugs – AndroGel and Testim – carry black-box warnings for secondary exposure in children.

In the past years, low testosterone – known as hypogonadism – has become a popular diagnosis with a $2 billion industry behind it. While this condition is a real problem for some men, the medication is now in the mainstream being used as a lifestyle drug.

Medications that include Axiron, AndroGel and the yet-to-be-released Rextoro promise youthful longevity for older men who are going through the normal aging process. The medications are said to help with low libido, fatigue and decreased muscle mass. Clinics across the country offer men quick and simple access to the medications.

In early 2014, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) opened an investigation into the link between some Low T products and heart attacksstroke and death.

In September, the agency’s Bone, Reproductive and Urologic Drugs panel will meet with the Drug Safety and Risk Management committee to discuss the benefits and risks of the treatment, particularly in the case of heart safety.


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This is a thread about Clomiphene, a drug that makes your body produce more testosterone. It is not about all the testosterone replacement drugs out there that work by adding testosterone to your system. This added extra testosterone causes your body to stop producing testosterone, which causes a myraid of problems like shrunken gonads, etc. Any warning on these testosterone replacement drugs (not clomiphene) does not necessarily apply to the use of clomiphene.

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These 5 reasons make me interested in trying this Clomid:

The 5 Main Reasons Clomiphene Citrate (CC pill, or Clomid) May be a Good Alternative to Testosterone Replacement Therapy in Men with Low Testosterone Due to Secondary Hypogonadism:


1. Clomiphene citrate (CC pill) stimulates the body's own production of testosterone


2. Clomiphene citrate (CC pill) doesn't interfere with the body's checks and balances of testosterone


3. Clomiphene citrate (CC pill) comes as a pill easily administered by mouth


4. Clomiphene citrate (CC pill) is generic and very cheap


5. Clomiphene citrate (CC pill) has little side-effects and low risk of developing these side-effects


But the question I have is about becoming addicted to Clomid in order for my body to produce testosterone.  I certainly don't want to get "Clomid-ia"  :yahoo: In all seriousness it sounds like a great supplement for aging men with Type 2 Diabetes who have a young, sexually excited partner who wants a child.  I may just try it but at this moment I am not motivated enough.  Lets continue to watch RogerDat's progress.  Keep up the great reporting RogerDat.

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I agree, but the "rest of the story" adds depth to the benefits of clomid verses the testosterone injections.

See my graft, the sugar levels dropped lots, and that is what led to the additional info. I have a lot more, but will post a separate post.

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The question I have is about becoming addicted to Clomid in order for my body to produce testosterone.  I certainly don't want to get "Clomid-ia" 


From the article



While some hypogonadal men require continuous use of clomiphene citrate, for others it can be used for a 3-6 month time period and then discontinued.


It sounds like there is a possibility of taking it short-term (3 to 6 months) to kick start testosterone production in the body, and then wean off the drug if the body picks up on testosterone production on its own. I'm guessing that will depend on what other lifestyle changes you implement (like more exercise). A lean body produces more testosterone than a fat body, but the lack of testosterone can create a fat body, so it seems like a self perpetuating downward spiral if you allow the testosterone levels to drop unchecked. Certainly, though, if you don't work on your weight at the same time you are taking clomiphene citrate, the effect will not be long-term for a short-term exposure to the drug. I think it needs to be a one-two punch (clomiphene citrate and regular exercise) if you want your body to take over testosterone production without long-term usage of the drug.

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I ran across a few articles by a Dr. about clomid use. The may interest some here.


Part 1: http://jeffreydachmd.com/clomid-for-low-testosterone-part-one/


Part 2: http://jeffreydachmd.com/clomid-for-men-with-low-testosterone/


Part 3: http://jeffreydachmd.com/2013/04/clomiphene-clomid-adverse-side-effects-part-three/


Sorry, too much to cut and paste. You'll have to follow the inks.

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Thank you to all who have contributed to this thread I started.

I disliked the idea of adding exogenous testosterone to my body whether cream, grl, patch, or injection so I started Clomid and have been using 25mg eod almost 70 days now.

For those who like numbers, my Total T was 559 tested on the day I started and 60 days later it tested at 937. You won't hear me complaining.

Morning wood daily. Less tired. More motivation to be productive.

No side effects..

It works for me.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Been over two months on Clomid 12.5 MG Mon Wed Fri.


Stuff works.  Haven't done the 90 day blood test but all my lifts at the gym have skyrocketed.  People also noting the increase in muscle mass.  


Can't say the effect it has on penile rigidity as haven't had that problem yet - am 48.


Yeah, it's for real.  No side effects noted.

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Great to hear clomiphene is working for you as well. I noticed even without returning to the gym, my once-again youthful T levels were causing a shrinking in my waistline.

Thank you for posting your experience; I am sure it will help someone.


Here's the caution: when T rises, E2 is sure to follow and things may start to drop off. Many keep on hand an Aromatase Inhibitor such as ARIMIDEX aka Anastrozole  which hopefully you will never need, but honestly you probably will - a tiny 5 mg eod is what most report is effective to get back on track.

For me the signs of rising E2 can be seen in symptoms of BPH - frequent desire to urinate, awakening at night to pee, reduced/restricted flow urine flow. It has always been my personal experience that when I reduce my E2 levels these symptoms disappear.


Bottom line Clomiphene increases you body's own T production and Anastrozole keeps it by restraining aromatase which wants to turn it into E2.

May all your days start with morning wood.

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I am giving it a shot. 48 years old. Test level 460.  Taking 25 mg on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. (Splitting the 50 mg pills).


On it for 30 days.  Started cuz I was feeling lethargic quite a bit.  All my lifts in the gym have gone up and my bodyfat level is dropping. Feeling better as well - more energy.

Gonna get test level checked in another couple of months to see if any actual change.


460 is still a good level and in the US at least a US MD wouldn't treat you for low T.


I tried shots and gels and couldn't get them till T levels went below 300.  Tried them though and didn't see enough change to warrant taking them.  Now finding losing weight (gym/diet) and learning to leave work at work is working better than any med.

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