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German nabbed for travelling with minor not related to him


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ozboy

I was getting paranoid to the point if i stopped to buy a beer at the store down the street, to avoid getting into any conversations with young kids esp girls, even if it was them just asking the usual curiosity questions.....

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My wife, when reading this said, " Somebody that was jealous of the family just turned them in, because if there was no complaint, nobody would do anything, the same thing could happen to us"    And

i clicked on the article and to be fair, even if the family is meeting them at the pier the german wasn't riding the bike with the mother or father, he was riding it with the minor girl and showed up

I think you guys should all settle down and read this bit from Senior Supt. Noel Gillamac, Cebu provincial police director.   “There have been parents who, because of poverty, allowed their children

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Tullioz

It is not against the law to be in the company of minors in the Philippines.

 

The port staff did the right thing.

Yes they did.

 

The law that was being used was the anti-trafficking law which includes a clause for being alone with a minor. There is no stand alone law for being alone with a minor. That charge will ONLY be used if there is suspicion of abuse or trafficking.

 

In the case of the German guy, he certainly appeared to be up to no good and that is how the law was used as it is designed to work.

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contraman

 

 

It is not against the law to be in the company of minors in the Philippines.

 

What gives you that idea ?

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rainymike

Although I think the law is a bit convoluted, it seems that a good lawyer should be able to come up with a reasonable defense for the guy. With parents and probably community members chiming in, I think he has a decent chance to be let off the hook. 

 

At the same time, I don't think the authorities were overboard in their actions. The Philippines has had a reputation for being a sexpat paradise. I think that's slowly changing, but I don't think it's unreasonable for the country to be a bit tough when it comes to minors. 

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Tullioz

What gives you that idea ?

Read the law. I explained this once in another thread a while back.

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oztony
In the case of the German guy, he certainly appeared to be up to no good and that is how the law was used as it is designed to work.

 

How so ? I mean there must be whole list of things you can get up to while riding a motorbike down the road , right ?

Edited by oztony
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Salty Dog

 

 

That charge will ONLY be used if there is suspicion of abuse or trafficking.

 

So you don't think an old man with a young girl is at the least "suspicion of abuse"?

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contraman

Read the law. I explained this once in another thread a while back.

Well what you have posted is contrary to what I and many others believe.

So perhaps you could enlighten us with a credible link to the source of your information ?

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contraman

 

 

That charge will ONLY be used if there is suspicion of abuse or trafficking.

So in the meantime he will spend maybe two or more years in jail awaiting trial :(

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Tullioz

Well what you have posted is contrary to what I and many others believe.

So perhaps you could enlighten us with a credible link to the source of your information ?

There is no better source than the law its self and the rule of statutory construction. Below are two comments I made in a thread similar to this one. Hope this helps.

 

There is no law in the Philippines where being in the company of a minor is illegal. However since it is a clause in a law against child abuse, exploitation, etc you can be arrested for being in the company of a child alone ONLY if there is reason to believe that you intend to harm that child. It is not a stand alone law.

 

It is written into RA 7610 so that authorities can make a quick arrest and remove a child from harm immediately without having significant evidence or having to build a case before doing so. They would not arrest someone under this clause unless they truly feel that a child is in danger.

 

 

Maybe I can explain this better, but first I will explain how this law is written.

 

You can not take a single clause out of context when it comes to written law. In law there is a rule called statutory construction which means that all text contained in it must be consistent with the wording of the law in it's entirety. Each article and clause has to be consistent with the law it is applied to. I will break this down the best I can as far as this one is concerned. Below is the title of this law. 

 

 REPUBLIC ACT 7610:AN ACT PROVIDING FOR STRONGER DETERRENCE AND SPECIAL PROTECTION AGAINST CHILD ABUSE,

 EXPLOITATION AND DISCRIMINATION, PROVIDING PENALTIES FOR ITS VIOLATION, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES

 

It is very clear that the purpose of RA 7610 is to protect children from abuse, exploitation and discrimination correct?

 

Now to take it further, the article we are discussing is under the heading:

 

Sec. 10 Other acts of Neglect, abuse, cruelty or exploitation and other conditions prejudicial to the child's development.

 

As we can see it consistent with the original title of the law as it is intended to prevent abuse, cruelty, exploitation and other negative conditions to children. 

 

Therefore: Art. VI Sec. 10 paragraph (b) 

 

Any person who shall keep or have in his company a minor, twelve (12) years or under or who in ten (10) years or more his junior in any public or private place, hotel, motel, beer joint, discotheque, cabaret, pension house, sauna or massage parlor, beach and/or other tourist resort or similar places shall suffer the penalty of prison mayor in its maximum period and a fine of not less than Fifty thousand pesos (P50,000): Provided, That this provision shall not apply to any person who is related within the fourth degree of consanguinity or affinity or any bond recognized by law, local custom and tradition or acts in the performance of a social, moral or legal duty." 

 

The above paragraph must also be taken in context with the entire law. So having a child in one's company must also imply that the person the child is alone with is intending to harm the child. This clause is meant to prevent the exploitation of children by adults with criminal intent under what normally would appear to be innocent circumstances. For example: being alone within the company of a child is a normal everyday occurrence and people see this situation every day they walk out the door and they do not think twice about it. It is not against the law by its self.

 

Now let's use the following picture as an example.

 

 

 

 

If someone called the police and said that there is a foreigner with a group of kids and I think he is going to harm them, the person on the line would start asking questions. The first probably being:

 

"What is he doing?"

 

The person would say something like: "I don't know, just walking together with them and he has his arm around one of and they are laughing and what not"

 

The person on the line would ask something like "Why do you think the children are in danger?"

 

"Because he is a foreigner and they are street children, of course he means to harm them."

 

 

This is an example of an unreasonable person making an assumption. A reasonable person would not call the police when they see a similar situation because they see adults alone with children everyday. Out of caution the police may still decide to check things out, but when they observe the situation and see that nothing wrong is taking place they will continue on without arresting the person. They probably wouldn't even interfere. In summary the charge came from an unreasonable person and they will not arrest someone based on their word alone. 

 

So what I am getting at is that you can not be arrested under this law just for the fact that you are alone with a child or a group of children. (Being alone with a child is not against the law) This law has been on the books since 1992 and if it were interpreted the way some people see it, there wouldn't be enough jails to house all the violators of such a law.

Edited by Tullioz
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For Real

Greetings! If a filipino man comes to the US, is he allowed to be alone with / in a movie house / boweling ally or such with  a minor child who is not his relative?

Only if in Kansas Toto.

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A_Simple_Man
just asking the usual curiosity questions

 

In 'another country' I used to teach my daughter not to talk to strangers, especially old men who ask 'curiosity questions'.  Funny how we think that its OK to do that in Philippines, even when there are laws against being in the company of non-related minors.  I say 'we' think its OK but I personally do not ask any 'curiosity questions' of underage kids.  I simply answer their questions when it seems to me they are practicing their English.

Edited by A_Simple_Man
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contraman

 

 

Any person who shall keep or have in his company a minor, twelve (12) years or under or who in ten (10) years or more his junior in any public or private place, hotel, motel, beer joint, discotheque, cabaret, pension house, sauna or massage parlor, beach and/or other tourist resort or similar places shall suffer the penalty of prison mayor in its maximum period and a fine of not less than Fifty thousand pesos (P50,000): Provided, That this provision shall not apply to any person who is related within the fourth degree of consanguinity or affinity or any bond recognized by law, local custom and tradition or acts in the performance of a social, moral or legal duty." 

 

From your own post above, It IS Illegal :(

 

Don't you even read what you post ?

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Tullioz

From your own post above, It IS Illegal :(

 

Don't you even read what you post ?

Did you even read my post? I explained how that clause works.

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Jawny

Something I had not encountered too much in places I've lived was a judicial system lacking a jury. I was accustomed to an accused facing a trial by "a jury of his peers". Of course, here there is no jury system. So, the outcome of a trial rests with the judge.

 

As I read these posts, I can understand why justice may not always be served by a jury. They can sometimes get it wrong.

 

It is quite striking to read the comments regarding the intentions of this fellow. For some, it seemed just so obvious he was up to no good. I can't see it that way, from what has been reported.

 

I am not German, but lived many years in Western Europe. I got to know many Europeans, including Germans. If there was anything that stood out to me it was their generally honest attitude. Pretty open. It makes perfect sense to me that this fellow would have considered his behaviour to be quite normal.

 

I had a child born in Germany and we returned to the United States when he was around four years old. I took him to a favorite wading pool I had known as a child. There was a small gathering of children and mothers or women caregivers. I had my son prepare to wade, and removed his clothes. He began to wade, splash, the general sort of behaviour you'd expect of a child. When I had a moment to look about, I realized from the looks of other parents and caregivers, this was inappropriate. He needed to be clothed in some way. Whoops! I had grown to be accustomed to the trusting and open behaviour of Germany. My bad.

 

If I had been hosting this chap, I would have advised him about the extra attention given to foreigners. Not sure I would have spoken about motorcycle rides except as it pertains to road safety, if I knew he was going to associate with children, I would have advised him to not do what he did.

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