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German nabbed for travelling with minor not related to him


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oztony
the couple was finally released but they spent I think it was weeks in jail first

 

16 days locked up from an identikit picture recognition as they were about to board a plane at Mactan , they were innocent and later tried to sue the Philippine Government for $60 million US Dollars on humanitarian grounds through the Geneva Convention.

 

http://www.philstar.com/cebu-news/769093/over-wrongful-arrest-couple-sues-phl-govt-60m

 

Fixed Link , Thanks Lee :)

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My wife, when reading this said, " Somebody that was jealous of the family just turned them in, because if there was no complaint, nobody would do anything, the same thing could happen to us"    And

i clicked on the article and to be fair, even if the family is meeting them at the pier the german wasn't riding the bike with the mother or father, he was riding it with the minor girl and showed up

I think you guys should all settle down and read this bit from Senior Supt. Noel Gillamac, Cebu provincial police director.   “There have been parents who, because of poverty, allowed their children

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Lee

16 days locked up from an identikit picture recognition as they were about to board a plane at Mactan , they were innocent and later tried to sue the Philippine Government for $60 million US Dollars on humanitarian grounds through the Geneva Convention.

 

http://www.philstar.com/cebu-news/769093/over-wrongful-arrest-couple-sues-phl-govt-60m

 

Fixed Link , Thanks Lee :)

My pleasure, that is what friends are for. :wink:

 

 

A Norwegian national and his Filipina fiancée are seeking $60 million in damages from the Philippine government represented by President Benigno Aquino III before the United Nations Human Rights Council – Office of the High Commissioner in Geneva, Switzerland after they were wrongly arrested for a crime they did not commit.

Sven Erik Berger and Karen Esdrelon filed a complaint for violation of human rights and violation of the child abuse law, seeking for damages amounting to US $60,000,000.

I hope they realize that they best not step foot back in the Philippines or sadly there could be retaliation in one form or another. I wish them luck and if they should win the case, then I hope that they donate whatever money they should get back to a good cause in the Philippines, that would be what I would do IF I sued, and even more important, I hope the law suit can bring about real change in the way that some of us can be treated if suspected of a crime but I fear that nothing will change. While I want those who are guilty harshly punished, IMHO the Philippines needs to change their way of doing things, they could detain for no more than 24 hours and investigate quickly and only charge people when there is strong evidence, not just the word of a child. 

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Tullioz

Your first time here was what, 4 years ago? In that short time you have become the expert here, telling people who have decades of experience here, how things work. On top of that, what you are telling people could get some unknowing soul into one hell of a lot of trouble.

 

Following your advice, even if you are correct (which few here seem to believe you are), could cost someone their life. I hope you could live with that.

 

If just one person reading this forum would take the time to ask an official of the court or go to the closest police station and ask about this law they would see that I am right in my interpretation. If someone would do this, hopefully they would then take the time and report their findings here for the rest to see. Whether I have been here for 4 years or 40, makes no difference. I have taken the time to learn about this law among many more in this country and I am sharing my knowledge here in hopes of educating others. If someone is arrested in this country and in turn dies because of it, how does me telling the truth about this law have anything to do with that? They first would have to do something independently and on their own accord to get themselves into such a situation.  

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SkyMan

 

 

they said they were at their hotel at the time and all the police had to do was go view the hotels video but that did not happen until someone, I think it was the NBI or the mayor made them do it because in the Philippines a witnesses word is stronger evidence than a video. Thankfully after the time stamped video was reviewed the couple was finally released but they spent I think it was weeks in jail first and only because there was a video and the right people got involved did the case not continue on.
The police commish knew of the video and might have even viewed preferring to go with the testimonies of the witnesses they'd bribed to identify them.  The hotel, Waterfront I think, contacted Gov Gwen about it and she demanded it be looked at.  Shortly after there was a new Commish.  It was still days after the video was viewed and verified before they were released from custody.  That is why I don't believe any of this German's story will be checked out nor was the Swede's from a few years ago.  They him for just being in the presence of a minor so why should they dig to see if he's being truthful?  He's still guilty of the catch all law.
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Lee

The police commish knew of the video and might have even viewed preferring to go with the testimonies of the witnesses they'd bribed to identify them.  The hotel, Waterfront I think, contacted Gov Gwen about it and she demanded it be looked at.  Shortly after there was a new Commish.  It was still days after the video was viewed and verified before they were released from custody.  That is why I don't believe any of this German's story will be checked out nor was the Swede's from a few years ago.  They him for just being in the presence of a minor so why should they dig to see if he's being truthful?  He's still guilty of the catch all law.

Yup my exact point for those who actually believe that they would surely get a fair shake in the Philippines, of course demeanor would have a lot to do with how we might be treated, coming off like a know it all who thinks he knows his rights might not work, instead in any country it is probably better to let the police think it is their idea by asking not demanding.

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oztony

 

 

They first would have to do something independently and on their own accord to get themselves into such a situation.

 

You mean like read your advice here and then think it is ok to be in the company of minors. :killself:

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KennyF

No question about that! Back in 2010 when I was on my first trip to Cebu, I ended up walking in the vicinity of SM Mall, but close to the port area. First, a little girl passes me on the street and turns to me and shouts, "Bad!" in an angry way at me. Then a jeepney driver yells to his customers about me, "Who is he? Watch him!" Then one man out of a group of men that were leaning against a wall asked me what I was doing in the neighborhood. Then, a pair of kids started following me around with coffee cans attached to their waists, which they started drumming on with sticks to attract attention, and, though I am not sure what they were saying, it didn't sound good. I was never so glad to be able to hail a taxi before in my life. I got out of there and have not returned.

 

One has to avoid areas where one will be perceived in a bad way if one wants to avoid serious trouble.

What the heck man, did you have a Macey's balloon tied to you saying "I'm a bad guy"?

 

I've been here 10 years, 3 in Cebu city, and I never witnessed anything even remotely like you have described.

 

KonC

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Tullioz

You mean like read your advice here and then think it is ok to be in the company of minors. :killself:

 

Since you seem to be riding me the hardest on this issue, or at least more than most, why don't you inquire about this law yourself. Print out the post where I explained how this law works and take it to the nearest police station. It can't be any easier than that to clear this up once and for all. Then you and everyone else, if you decide to share your findings, will know that it is in fact ok to be in the company of minors in the Philippines. 

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oztony

Tullioz , I don't think you are a bad guy , but you just don't get it , it is not about how you interpret it , or me for that matter , it is the under trained people that have the power to put their interpretation on it where the problem lies , but you just don't want to believe that actually happens. and after 233 posts you are still in a cataclysmic minority with your opinion .But Hey obviously for you the 150 years worth of experience in dealing with things here that is stating otherwise to you is wrong , because we don't know the behaviour and mentality of what people are up against in regards to the law right ?

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Lee

Tullioz, the law is not how any of us or even a juge interpret it to be, it is as most things in the Philippines are, at the discretion of the person who applies it. I have met a lot of police officers in the Philippines and even became friends with some as well as met with some big shots while in Makati years ago, believe me, many (NOT ALL) seem to have the poorest of training, one guy even told me he wanted to date a 14 year old that he could not get out of his mind since meeting her. :shocked:

Of course the laws may not be applied to them the way it is applied to us but still, a 14 year old and this guy was in his mid 20's, so at least 10 years her senior and he wanted to date her, I was shocked but told him that it is his country and he could do as he wished but that I would never want anyone until they grew up, I guess he got mad at me since we lost contact shortly after that. 

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Tullioz

Tullioz , I don't think you are a bad guy , but you just don't get it , it is not about how you interpret it , or me for that matter , it is the under trained people that have the power to put their interpretation on it where the problem lies , but you just don't want to believe that actually happens. and after 233 posts you are still in a cataclysmic minority with your opinion .But Hey obviously for you the 150 years worth of experience in dealing with things here that is stating otherwise to you is wrong , because we don't know the behaviour and mentality of what people are up against in regards to the law right ?

 

I have given you a challenge to take the post I made explaining this law to a local police station or courthouse to verify whether or not what I have stated is true or not. The only way this will ever be settled is if someone other than myself does this and reports back here. Until then this issue will continue to come up every time a foreigner is held with this charge. I am not arguing how people may try and abuse this law (False accusations occur in every country BTW), but rather that it is not illegal to be in the company of a minor in the Philippines. If someone under trained applies this law to someone it will be quickly overturned by their superiors and the charge will not even be made. In every case found on this forum where this subject has came up, the individual charged was doing something suspicious and deserved to be held until the matter is straightened out. The other alternative would be to let them continue on their way and if they had bad intentions the child would be the one to suffer. 

 

Below sums up the point I have been trying to make and I will repeat it one last time so there is no confusion as to what I am trying to say:

 

There is no law in the Philippines where being in the company of a minor is illegal. However since it is a clause in a law against child abuse, exploitation, etc you can be arrested for being in the company of a child alone ONLY if there is reason to believe that you intend to harm that child. It is not a stand alone law.
 
It is written into RA 7610 so that authorities can make a quick arrest and remove a child from harm immediately without having significant evidence or having to build a case before doing so. They would not arrest someone under this clause unless they truly feel that a child is in danger.
Edited by Tullioz
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Raptor

 

 

No need to live in fear if one is doing the right thing.

 

Then why this:

 

 

 

I would not be in the company of minors without my wife presence.
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A_Simple_Man

 

 

If just one person reading this forum would take the time to ask an official of the court or go to the closest police station and ask about this law they would see that I am right in my interpretation.

 

Ask a US policeman if he takes his gun out and shoots unarmed black people.  He will say NO of course not.  And yet, it happens.  I hope you see the analogy that an average, normal person would interpret the law as you suggest but there are as many cowboy cops and other government officials in Philippines as there are in other countries and this law gives them permission to arrest first, throw you in jail for weeks, and ask questions later.

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oztony

No thanks , I am quite confident with how my thought processes operate , we have family that work at the police station , the mayor was at my wedding , and I have had lunch with the Governor, I don't need to run around asking questions , the only one I have is , you just don't get it do you ? Or are you just acting dumb ? Or do you just plain outright refuse to accept that this can be interpreted differently than yourself ? Don't answer , we have tried that already , it's a waste of time.

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SkyMan

 

 

I have given you a challenge to take the post I made explaining this law to a local police station or courthouse to verify whether or not what I have stated is true or not.
And it would not matter 1 iota what they said.  I could ask 15 court officials and they all could say Yeah, Tullioz is absolutely right.  And then someone gets busted and gets a different prosecutor and a different judge and he's swinging.  

 

I will repeat it one last time so there is no confusion as to what I am trying to say:
Thank God you're done and the bad advice can stop!!
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