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German nabbed for travelling with minor not related to him


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delancey

Ok. I am back. You can certainly question the details but not the fact It is an absolute legal risk to be alone with a non-related minor. Any other qualification to mitigate or refute that does not change the real world reality of such risk.

 

What an insufferable attention seeking tool one has to be to not fold their hand on this one.

 

I will now attempt to make good not further beat this dead, very dead horse.

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My wife, when reading this said, " Somebody that was jealous of the family just turned them in, because if there was no complaint, nobody would do anything, the same thing could happen to us"    And

i clicked on the article and to be fair, even if the family is meeting them at the pier the german wasn't riding the bike with the mother or father, he was riding it with the minor girl and showed up

I think you guys should all settle down and read this bit from Senior Supt. Noel Gillamac, Cebu provincial police director.   “There have been parents who, because of poverty, allowed their children

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Sorry, but I am not you and I do not have the confidence in any guard or police officer in the Philippines being impartial or even sympathetic to a foreigners plight :(

 

Oh, don't bother replying, because I do not believe your explanations 

Thanks,,  I Think :(

I have read all the posts here and very interesting comments by some. I live here and i have a 10 yrs. old daughter. I would not hesitate to take her anywhere with me alone. Any blind person can see she looks so much like me. Even if she did not look like me i would not be paranoid about going anywhere  alone with her. I would welcome anyone to try and report me as a pedopile while we are together. Cannot allow things like that stop me from time alone with my child. Come to think of this i seldom even goes anywhere alone with her. Mom is always with us. Our slogan is. We are a family and we live and travel together and that is always the case. Many times i can see the evil eyes but i think that is just jealousy. Just ignore and move on. I would not be in the company of minors without my wife presence. I love kids and i am a protective father not only to my child but any kids. I know some people are opportunists and would maybe try to capitalise on anything if given the chance to do so. As i am very aware of this i always isolate myself to some degree. No kids rocking on uncle's knee, well except my daughter when she was little. 

All i can say is just be aware and try to know the people who you are associate with. No need to live in fear if one is doing the right thing.

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colemanlee

Worst case scenario for you for being alone with your daughter if someone files a frivolous complaint: A guard or police officer will come up to you and ask a few questions and you will be on your way. I think anyone would be very thankful for this law being on the books if someone convinced their son or daughter to walk out of the mall with them and it was reported as looking a bit odd by someone. 

I think your entitled to your opinion, as long as it works for you and your particular situation that great.....However, some of the information you put out has the potential to get newbies or other folks that visit here in some serious deep trouble

 

...all this splitting hairs on the law in real life is ridiculous..it is and will always be how its interpreted at the time by whoever is present...if they dont know you personally you could be in deep shit...

 

at the very least taken into custody costing you time and money and a experience nobody wants to be in.  You are obviously well known in your area, Ive seen your FB page but consider this...someone comes here, having read your opinions, in a completely different area, wants to help somebody with no ulterior  motives, completely unaware of how some people have an intense dislike for forgn.'s or that have read some of the stuff in the newspaper in the last few months, and reports them for being a pedophile.

 

There has been much discussion here about the Germans motives...for the sake of discussion lets say his motives were completely good, he was just trying to be a nice guy...he has still found himself in an untenable situation....which could happen to anybody coming here...

 

So I for one, think you have not thought your position through...I can give many examples on how here in Tacloban, I know enough folks to do some things most would not do...I regularly shoot with folks here including PNP, and have on occasion just thrown my pistol in the car and driven to the range...but what if I spouted that as being no problem for everybody....many taking that advice would soon find themselves in more trouble than it would be worth.

 

So again, and I promise it will be for the last time...consider what your saying and the entire audience involved here...

Edited by colemanlee
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SkyMan

 

 

but I have yet to read about a case, whether on this forum or in the news, where the foreigner wasn't doing something that made them look very suspicious
We've all read the law and the vast majority of us don't want to be that first case you read about.  I hope we don't end up reading about you in this light.
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Tullioz

 

 

So again, and I promise it will be for the last time...consider what your saying and the entire audience involved here...

 

I have always stressed that a person should not put themselves in a position that would raise suspicion in the first place. Maybe not so much in this thread, but in the previous one concerning the Canadian a while back. I am just trying to ease people's paranoia by explaining this clause and how it works. You even see foreigners here who worry about what people think or may do when they are with their own children and I find that very sad.  

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SkyMan
 

Major, 63, said he had no intention of using Diana (real name withheld) for sex. He said he planned to check a lot in Sta. Fe, Bantayan he wanted to buy.

Cabahug said Diana’s mother met Major through the Internet last year.

Major, however, said he knew the mother in Barangay Maribago, Lapu-Lapu City.

 

http://www.sunstar.com.ph/cebu/local-news/2015/05/20/i-am-not-pedophile-german-408581
 

Kind of been wondering why you posted this quote Harry.  It seems to me this statement (which may or may not be the truth) lends credence to the German's story.  Perhaps they were just going up for the day.  I can see him saying, "Hey, I'm going up to Bantayan to look at a lot.  Anyone want to go with?  She says yes.  Then he says, "Why don't we we make a family day of it.  I'll give your folks money for a ride up, we'll go over and check out the lot, have lunch, a little beach time, and then come back."  Not impossible to do in a day.  And the fact that they were a little later getting there than I would want if I were doing just a day trip is easily explained by Filipino time and historically I've found that travel here even by scooter almost always takes longer than expected.

 

But seriously, can you not see that the country needs such a law? This may scare away pedophiles and those who come here to exploit young girls and boys. By effective use of this law you can also remove some of the children prostitution.
If that's what you want why beat around the bush.  How about just have the law state "we can arrest anyone, anytime, for whatever we want."  Which is essentially what this law does.  A cop sees you in line for a ferry, he sees a minor near you, and boom, that'll be p50K.  Your defense is you never saw the kid before.  Yeah right, that's what they all say.  The kids mother says she never saw you before and the kid was with her all day.  Well, she's just trying to protect her money man.  It could happen.

 

Give me an example of how to be able to take a person who uses his apartment to have sex with children without such a law? How to get proof so you can get the search warrant?
Use a little (elementary) detective work.  Are kids going in and out of the apartment?  Interview the kids.  You should be able to get enough from that for your warrant.  

 

In Herbert's case, how about NOT arresting him and seeing what happens on Bantayan?  Maybe they go to look at a lot, maybe they go to the beach a while, maybe the parents show up at some point, and then they go back to Cebu.  

 

Or maybe he goes to a hotel and rents a room, well of course you don't let them actually get to the room.  Well now you have some real evidence of a far more suspicious activity he'll have a much harder time explaining.

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oztony
You even see foreigners here who worry about what people think or may do when they are with their own children and I find that very sad.

 

It is amazing how attitudes and frustrations change when you are an older guy (Caucasian) and it is your own children that we are talking about here ,

to be put under that sort scrutiny in front of your own child(ren) is a blight on decency on it's own.

 

"Dad what do those people want" ,

 

"nothing sweatheart , I look like a bad person and they just want to find out if I have been molesting you".

 

 

(You got your own kid's here chief , or are all these insights those of a happy single wanderer)

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InternetTough

They seem to bust a lot of guys at the ports and piers.

No question about that! Back in 2010 when I was on my first trip to Cebu, I ended up walking in the vicinity of SM Mall, but close to the port area. First, a little girl passes me on the street and turns to me and shouts, "Bad!" in an angry way at me. Then a jeepney driver yells to his customers about me, "Who is he? Watch him!" Then one man out of a group of men that were leaning against a wall asked me what I was doing in the neighborhood. Then, a pair of kids started following me around with coffee cans attached to their waists, which they started drumming on with sticks to attract attention, and, though I am not sure what they were saying, it didn't sound good. I was never so glad to be able to hail a taxi before in my life. I got out of there and have not returned.

 

One has to avoid areas where one will be perceived in a bad way if one wants to avoid serious trouble.

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thebob

To those who continue to belittle me and accuse me of providing false information based on your opinion alone, why not try and find out from someone else in the know how this law is written and applied? Just print out the post that I have linked to here and take it to the courthouse or to a criminal attorney and ask them if what I posted is correct or not.

 

 

I haven't noticed anyone "belittling" you so much as attempting to temper your advice, which to me appears reckless.

 

As to asking for a definitive opinion on this law... Well that would simplify everything wouldn't it? If the police, the legal profession and the judiciary all agreed unequivocally. It would save all of this tedious business with courts and whatever. Unfortunately being innocent here, can cost a lot of time and money, sometimes it even deprives you of your freedom for extended periods.

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shadow

I have always stressed that a person should not put themselves in a position that would raise suspicion in the first place. Maybe not so much in this thread, but in the previous one concerning the Canadian a while back. I am just trying to ease people's paranoia by explaining this clause and how it works. You even see foreigners here who worry about what people think or may do when they are with their own children and I find that very sad.  

Your first time here was what, 4 years ago? In that short time you have become the expert here, telling people who have decades of experience here, how things work. On top of that, what you are telling people could get some unknowing soul into one hell of a lot of trouble.

 

I can assure you that things are not always black and white here. It is obvious a law is needed, but the law can be interpreted in different ways, depending on what you want to believe. Not many her are reading this law the way you are. While you may want to believe it the way you read it, those with experience here know that is not always how it may be read by someone else.

 

So instead of erring on the side of safety, you advise to go with how you wish it to read. If you took this law to a dozen different judges, you may get several differing opinions. While you may opt to go with the opinion you wish, to try to convince someone else that opinion is wise is a very dangerous one. Many people reading this forum are in their later years in life, and could rot and die in jail over following your advice. Anyone who has followed the news stories here for 10 years or more knows that from getting arrested to getting in front of a judge for a final decision can take many years, and many thousands, or even millions, of pesos. Some here don't have many years, and would not survive long in the jails here.

 

Best case scenario, they have the funds available to buy their way out, but once again, not everyone does.

 

Following your advice, even if you are correct (which few here seem to believe you are), could cost someone their life. I hope you could live with that.

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bargeman

Which you will not be if you pay attention to what some have said and realize its the Philippines....and a lot of folks here dont like you in the first place..not all but enough to be wary....

Why, innocent people haven't been 'entrapped' here? I can recall one Norwegian guy just last year.!!!!

As for myself, I have been here over 20 years, so I am fully aware of the 'situation' in this country and really do not need you to educate me on such issues.

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Alan S

Back when I lived in AC, I was out one day strolling round the shops when I met a neighbour with her children.

 

We al sat down at a cafe, had coffee & Cokes.when the mother asked to leave the kids with me while she shopped for presents for the children. 

 

So, the children and I sat and chatted while their mother was away.

 

I certainly WOULD NOT under any circumctances do that now.

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smokey

I am going to go way out on a limb and say if your truly morally not guilty you will spend years waiting to prove it...but if your guilty and have the funds you can get out pronto on bail and the case will take an easy 15 years plus to get thru court

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smokey

But seriously, can you not see that the country needs such a law?

This may scare away pedophiles and those who come here to exploit young girls and boys.

 

By effective use of this law you can also remove some of the children prostitution.

 

Give me an example of how to be able to take a person who uses his apartment to have sex with children without such a law?

How to get proof so you can get the search warrant?

 

no one is saying your not correct but truth be know many locals have sex with young girls as a sport and most of them are from ????? ...

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Lee

I was recently in Dunkin Donuts in SM with my wife and a Filipina friend and her daughter who we have known for many years and she is married to an American friend of ours in our area of Florida, well the daughter wanted me to keep her entertained so I did what I have done with many children back home and bounced her on the front of my knee while she faced her mother and I held her arms to make sure she did not fall off, the looks people including one old lady who was working there gave me was scary to say the least, if looks could kill then I would have been dead that day but since her mother was there and since the child was a US citizen and was obviously a mixed race child, I figured what the heck but for the whole day and other outings at other malls during other days the child only wanted to walk with me while holding my hand and I made sure her mother was very close by as a precaution and still worried some ahole might question me or my motives. It makes me very sad that I or anyone else should have to watch our p's and q's just because we are not Filipino but the facts are that many people seem to think poorly of us because of all those who get arrested and because of crazy stories that are spread around. Do you all know that a common story spread around is that we are going to bring our ladies back to our countries and insure them and kill them for the insurance and that is spread around just because that has happened a couple of times, think about it, how many more times have we seen pedos arrested.

 

To those who are always out and about with your own children while in the Philippines, why not take a safety precaution and carry a photo copy of their birth certificates listing you as their father, to prevent if even the smallest chance of ending up being detained while someone has to go fetch it. When there is a way to prevent a possible problem, I always try to go with that route. Some people drive in the US and forget to carry their dl, insurance etc and when and if they get stopped, they get a ticket if the officer can verify on the radio and then can go to court and show them and the case usually gets dropped but often with court fees to pay but at least we do not end up in jail until the court case. The Philippines is not Kansas and we cannot click our heels to get out of jail, so why take even the smallest of chances is my way of thinking. 

 

I remember once in a law class many moons ago, where the professor told the class to "always remember that you do not have to be wrong to be wrong, it can sometime be what witnesses saw and interpreted incorrectly that will makes you appear to be wrong and thus you will then have to prove you were not" and he was talking about the US at the time where police usually investigate before an arrest.

 

I remember the couple who was arrested for the killing of Ellah Joy, they said they were at their hotel at the time and all the police had to do was go view the hotels video but that did not happen until someone, I think it was the NBI or the mayor made them do it because in the Philippines a witnesses word is stronger evidence than a video. :( Thankfully after the time stamped video was reviewed the couple was finally released but they spent I think it was weeks in jail first and only because there was a video and the right people got involved did the case not continue on.

 

We all need to be cognizant that the Philippines is not back home, so we have to set aside our western thinking when living in or visiting.

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