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.... I don't see the way of life as communal, I see it as tribal, and I've got long term first hand experience. That tribal thinking is THE primary cause of poverty in the Philippines. ....

Thank you David. I agree with you. "Tribal" is a much better analogy of the Filipino social culture, particularly the provincial.

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mattwilkie
One doesn't have to be Filipino to understand or evaluate the culture. Glorifying as some marvelous bit of your culture is head in the sand thinking. What you've just described is considering the loan as a gift -period.

 

I don't see the way of life as communal, I see it as tribal, and I've got long term first hand experience. That tribal thinking is THE primary cause of poverty in the Philippines. Not the mysterious 90 families that control the country, but rather at the local level, with the willingness of family members to support those who should be supporting themselves being the worst offense. Which keeps that working person broke, and the welfare recepients are immedately broke once again after the welfare stops.

 

I can't tell you how many lazy Filipinos I've put to sleep reciting ways they could earn money..

 

But its not only the Philippines that suffers with it in the UK its called the "Benefit Class" those who choose to and dont want to work. Having a brood of kids also brings extra revenue and guarantees that even if you refuse to work the kids will still get your payment. A system that is now getting to the point where its generations of none workers but not only that the education is dropping as there is no need to be educated because there is no future in progression.

The Philippines is in a similar state where overseas people are taking up the slack. But you only have to look at the number of undeveloped lands for sale all over the place to tell you a lot of these people are never coming back. There is a lot nearby to me thats current used as a dumping ground the owner is abroad and the 3 kids have been given it.. what have they done with it? nothing.. But its also the fact that many people are quick to rob another as in the crab mentality. A story that happend to me and my wife regarding a house not going into too much detail but its split the family down the middle and the ones who sided with us are starting to see the positive effects. But the difference is I only offer a 50% stake in something that is viable im not carrying anyone. But the others even the house they stole was stripped before i left so that they couldnt let it. What benefit was it to them to try and cash a cheque before the ink had even signed it? But thats what it all comes down to.. Only advice i would give to anyone investing in ideas is be diverse dont get stuck with the cultural thing.. with everyone having to get a slice of the pie.. just tell them and your partner you are a foreigner and you will do it as a foreigner would. They are more likely to accept that than you going with the flow and assuming this or that is being done.

 

Whatever you do seperate a second fund for emergencies. As things develop setup a second pot with things people arent aware of out of your profits buy a condo or two. Things that can tick over with a private bank account and an emergency fund if things go wrong. Its not deception its just common sense and good business practice.

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  • 5 weeks later...

An update on the Bohol fishing boat venture.

 

Miss C's papa received his second new motorised fishing boat in January 2009. This new addition to the family "fishing fleet" is longer than the first and slightly wider in hull.

 

Prior to the second motorised fishing boat, papa and his youngest (unmarried) son would fish using nets and lines with the first motorised fishing boats. His two other married sons (living next to mama and papa) continued using their paddle fishing boats for line fishing.

 

With the arrival of the second motorised fishing boat, things have changed. Papa has told me that he is "renting" the new boat to his two married sons. This surprised me as I would not have expected such a rental arrangement to be readily acceptable within a provincial Filipino family. I'm not sure who decided on this, maybe Miss C or her mama (who handles papa's finances). Probably a combination of both.

 

This fishing venture with Miss C's family started in the second half of 2007 and has grown to be successful. I have told Miss C's papa that this second boat is the last that I will be financing him into and that next he can finance me into a motorised fishing boat. He just laughed.

 

I believe that within the next 12 months, as things are progressing, Miss C will have achieved her original goal of having her parents reasonably financially secure for their latter years. It took some of my time in guidance and basic training together with acceptable financial risk for me. Not a lot on my part. I am very proud of Miss C and her family.

 

During 2009 we might look further into mama's seafood stall - but that will be another story.

Edited by RBS
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That is very cool and I am glad to hear it is continued to work. Not everyone has similar situations and individuals to work with, so not everyone can replicate your achievements. But a successful venture is well worth hearing about, for sure.

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Freedom Rider

Good on you I think this might be one of the better ways to help those who help themselves. Please keep us informed on what's going on with Miss C family. :any-help:

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  • 1 month later...
J and Sheila

Interesting posts here!

 

Seems like there is some wisdom here:

 

Here is what I have so far....

 

If you lend then "lend"

If you give then "give"

 

If you lend, lend to people who deserve it as they are hardworking and honest.

Expect to be paid back for loans...if you make interest it is up to you.

 

Don't look at it like charity. Look at it as taking part in a good venture.

 

And don't be swayed by the negativity caused by other people's bad experiences.

 

Last, do BE generous!

:lol:

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Bob Ward
Interesting posts here!

 

Seems like there is some wisdom here:

 

Here is what I have so far....

 

If you lend then "lend"

If you give then "give"

 

If you lend, lend to people who deserve it as they are hardworking and honest.

Expect to be paid back for loans...if you make interest it is up to you.

 

Don't look at it like charity. Look at it as taking part in a good venture.

 

And don't be swayed by the negativity caused by other people's bad experiences.

 

Last, do BE generous!

:D

Not always that simple.

 

NEVER that simple.

You missed the point entirely.

 

Keep trying and keep reading, it will become more clear. RBS's story is a rare one and good to hear for sure.

Edited by Bob Ward
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  • 1 month later...
Miss C earns about P10k to P15k per month in Cebu. The father's income (about P40k to P50k per year) and that of his three sons has to support a family of over 20 people. Miss C provided P3k to P5k per month to help her family. It is the Filipino way to provide support to your parents, even if they don't really need it.

 

Again, it is a cultural thing. Those in the know will understand.

 

 

I have read with much interest some of the many posts by rbs. The most have found to be informative, helpful and interesting. The insurance post resulting in me purchasing the product, great work and advise on the behalf of rbs.

 

This story about the fishing success story I find just over the top, cannot accept it as written. My not inconsiderable experience living in philippines (17 years) plus like so many ex pats having been involved in ...self start...self substainability small ventures for locals have sadly all resulted failure. Even with much follow up to the recipient.

 

I do not intend to knock micro lending if done correctly. In fact I have been involved with such organizations, the difference here is they have people on the ground, trained professionals, the follow up, support and encouragement is done at least weekly and often more often. Local money lenders collect on a daily basis.

 

What I find to amazing on the success story of rbs is the following.

 

1.....A daughter to accept an extra payment (interest) from her father.

 

2.....Even to accept her 10K start up money from the father I find incredible.

 

3.....It is inconceivable for me to believe that the father could be discipined enough to save the amount of money stated and hold for 3 months for the repayments.

 

4.....While the father is fishing from his small pump boat the older sons are using their paddle boats....no this cannot be. They would be with the father or at the least receiving a tow out and back.

 

5... From my experience the whole family would be sharing in the venture of the father, this would deminish the total earning.

 

I find the story interesting and commendable if I could only believe it. Sad to say I just am unable to be convinced.

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Caveat Emptor
It is the Filipino way. Every woman I know who is earning gives to their parents, even if they are earning and relatively comfortable. It is expected and RBS's story and further info fits the real way of life here.

 

I agree with you, John. I, myself, am giving a small part of my monthly salary to my parents along with my four brothers. It's like a monthly pension from us children. I collect contributions from my brothers and myself and deposit them to my parent

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Caveat Emptor
I have read with much interest some of the many posts by rbs. The most have found to be informative, helpful and interesting. The insurance post resulting in me purchasing the product, great work and advise on the behalf of rbs.

 

This story about the fishing success story I find just over the top, cannot accept it as written. My not inconsiderable experience living in philippines (17 years) plus like so many ex pats having been involved in ...self start...self substainability small ventures for locals have sadly all resulted failure. Even with much follow up to the recipient.

 

I do not intend to knock micro lending if done correctly. In fact I have been involved with such organizations, the difference here is they have people on the ground, trained professionals, the follow up, support and encouragement is done at least weekly and often more often. Local money lenders collect on a daily basis.

 

What I find to amazing on the success story of rbs is the following.

 

1.....A daughter to accept an extra payment (interest) from her father.

 

2.....Even to accept her 10K start up money from the father I find incredible.

 

3.....It is inconceivable for me to believe that the father could be discipined enough to save the amount of money stated and hold for 3 months for the repayments.

 

4.....While the father is fishing from his small pump boat the older sons are using their paddle boats....no this cannot be. They would be with the father or at the least receiving a tow out and back.

 

5... From my experience the whole family would be sharing in the venture of the father, this would deminish the total earning.

 

I find the story interesting and commendable if I could only believe it. Sad to say I just am unable to be convinced.

 

You do business with a family member. It's just that you put interest on the money being lent. Return of investment, I think. The same principle applies to the start up capital.

 

If you teach a Filipino of his obligations, he would most of the time honor that obligation. Filipinos are naturally thrifty and can save up to repay existing obligations. It

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....

 

What I find to amazing on the success story of rbs is the following.

 

1.....A daughter to accept an extra payment (interest) from her father.

Although this was referred to as interest, as I explained to Miss C, the reason for the extra payment was so that we could afford to by her family a second motorized fishing boat later (which we expected to cost more). Filipinos are quite acceptable to paying interest on money loaned to them. Maybe the word "interest" could have been better explained.

 

2.....Even to accept her 10K start up money from the father I find incredible.

I don't quite understand what you are getting at here. Miss C received no start-up money from her papa. Miss C saved up half the money (P10k) for the first boat over many months. I contributed the other half. The reason for this was two-fold; to get Miss C into a saving mentality and to give her some responsibility in the business venture. Remember, this was a business venture.

 

3.....It is inconceivable for me to believe that the father could be discipined enough to save the amount of money stated and hold for 3 months for the repayments.

I agree and was very surprised that things worked out as they did. It was only later that I learned that Miss C's mama (a high school graduate) is the financial controller within their family.

 

4.....While the father is fishing from his small pump boat the older sons are using their paddle boats....no this cannot be. They would be with the father or at the least receiving a tow out and back.

The first boat was really only big enough for two persons fishing. Papa fishes with his youngest unmarried son. The other two sons are married. Papa so loves his motorised fishing boat that he sleeps with it every night and only he is ever allowed to operate it. He may have towed his sons' paddle boat out to go fishing on some occasions, but the motor boat is solely for the use of papa.

 

5... From my experience the whole family would be sharing in the venture of the father, this would deminish the total earning.

Again, I normally experienced the same as you here. In Miss C's family's case, they have a different set or rules (that I discovered later). Once one of their sons marries, that son is solely responsible for maintaining his own family with next to no help from his siblings or parents. Strange, but true.

 

I find the story interesting and commendable if I could only believe it. Sad to say I just am unable to be convinced.

Edited by RBS
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