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Air Asia: Airbus flight with 162 aboard Missing


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That seems like very valid reporting (considering what has been reported).  They have not been down the 24 meters to examine the actual aircraft yet but it appears they are sure of the location and should be doing so today if weather allows.

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Why not? I don't need a forum to read facts, those are easily obtainable from news and official sources. 

Please stop all those theories and speculations until some more information is available

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So to the subscribers of "alternate theories" (being PC here) about the disappearance of this flight think that the powers controlling the disappearance got scared about reading their plans uncovered on the Internet (perhaps even your post!), so they were forced to take the plane from an undisclosed location and then ditch it in the ocean?

 

 

Sorry for any weird formatting, I'm posting with tapatalk.

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That seems like very valid reporting (considering what has been reported).  They have not been down the 24 meters to examine the actual aircraft yet but it appears they are sure of the location and should be doing so today if weather allows.

 

 

  So they still can not confirm about positive founding of  plane.   AirAsia QZ8501: First bodies arrive in Surabaya; location of wreckage not confirmed, officials say.

Rescuers believed they found the plane on the sea floor off Borneo, after sonar detected a large, dark object beneath waters near where debris and bodies were found on the surface.

 

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-01/airasia-qz8501-first-two-bodies-arrive-in-surabaya/5995354

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tokyoman

 

 

I hope this incident brings new flight rules and more flight training for our young pilots that are so used to flying by computer.  

 

Yeah but it won't happen given the shortage of pilots in that part of the world.....

 

As passengers we have the right to choose....and I don't mind paying more for safety

 

When the Malaysian airline got shot down QANTAS was one of the few which avoided the area from the start...yes it cost them fuel ....so I wonder if the Air Asian pilot flew right into the eye of the storm to save fuel?

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By early accounts the pilot was trying to avoid the storm. A steep climb followed by a stall it seems.

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National Committee for Transportation Safety investigator Toos Sanitiyoso said the black box flight data and voice recorders could be found within a week, suggesting there was still doubt over the plane's location.

"The main thing is to find the main area of the wreckage and then the black box," he said.

None of the tell-tale black box "pings" had been detected, he said.

"There are two steps of finding the black box. One is we try to find the largest portion of the wreckage."

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SkyMan

it's amazing what a smart phone can do these days, or even smart watches etc yet they still haven't figured out how to make an instant plane locator device for lost planes.

Several people have mentioned this so I'll add a little to why this is a problem.  Cell phones work on cell technology meaning the phone operates within a cell, each cell having an antenna on a tower which controls and communicates with the phones within it's range and relaying those comms to the next tower in line back to the comm hub.  These towers are only a few miles apart and have only about that much range.  These lost aircraft have been at sea and as yet they don't put cell towers at sea.  So that's why the cool smart phone locator stuff doesn't work with these downed aircraft.

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So that's why the cool smart phone locator stuff doesn't work with these downed aircraft.

 

I already was aware of the cell phone limitations, my point was that is an example of very advanced communications technology used everyday but it seems strange why no one has thought of a simple way to locate crashed airplanes instantly when you think of all the other great technology breakthroughs! I wonder would satellite technology be a starting point?

Edited by Tamed
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Unfortunately Indonesian aviation has a terrible track record, worse then the rest of South East Asia. Lion Air was a particular example, lots of pure incompetence accidents with large shiny new jets. I once flew jumpseat between Manila-Cebu with Zest air a few years ago, and even as a mere Private Pilot I was quite taken aback, and saw things which made me wonder how more accidents don't happen in Asia. I guess Miles High will be able to tell us more, but I believe that ATC is very very poor in this entire region.

 

Hey Ricky, Let me call BS on your post.

 

 You didn't sit on the jumpseat because it's forbidden in CAAP regulations, and no Captain is going to risk his career to let some private pilot foreigner occupy his jumpseat.  

 

 I've been there/done that as a holder of a CAAP ATPL flying for a Philippine carrier.

Edited by CaptRonn
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ellenbrook2001

what puzzle me the black box never send any signal  or normally always does up to 30 days so maybe the black box has been damaged or the way the plane hit the water didn't trigger just my opinion but a so bad tragedy again  huhuhuhu.

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  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_locator_beacon

 

Underwater locator beacon

 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
220px-ULBeacon.jpg
A Dukane DK120 model ULB attached to a bracket on a Universal Avionics CVR (length: 4 inches (10 cm))

 

An underwater locator beacon (ULB) or underwater acoustic beacon, is a device fitted to aviation flight recorders such as the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) and flight data recorder (FDR). ULBs are also sometimes required to be attached directly to an aircraft fuselage. ULBs are triggered by water immersion; most emit an ultrasonic 10ms pulse once per second at 37.5 kHz ± 1kHz.[1][2][3]

The device is designed not only to survive accidents, but to function correctly after impact. Research by the French Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses pour la Sécurité de l'Aviation Civile (BEA) has shown that it has had an 90% survival rate spanning 27 air accidents over the sea.[4] The ULBs fitted in Air France Flight 447, which crashed on 1 June 2009, were certified to transmit on 37.5 kHz for minimum 30 days at 4°C temperature. Investigating the crash, the BEA recommended that FDR ULBs' transmission period be increased to 90 days and that "airplanes performing public transport flights over maritime areas to be equipped with an additional ULB capable of transmitting on a frequency (for example between 8.5 kHz and 9.5 kHz) and for a duration adapted to the pre-localisation of wreckage" (i.e. with increased range).[5]

 

 

  Maximum detection range

A 37.5 kHz (160.5 dB re 1 μPa) pinger can be detectable 1–2 kilometres (0.62–1.24 mi) from the surface in normal conditions and 4–5 kilometres (2.5–3.1 mi) in good conditions. A 37.5 kHz (180 dB re 1 μPa) transponder pinger can be detected 4–5 kilometres (2.5–3.1 mi) in normal conditions and 6–7 kilometres (3.7–4.3 mi) in good conditions. Transponder 10 kHz (180 dB re 1 μPa) range is 7–9 kilometres (4.3–5.6 mi) in normal conditions and 17–22 kilometres (11–14 mi) in good conditions.[8]

Edited by Woolf
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Source claims plane made 'unbelievably' steep climb

 

The plane was travelling at 32,000 feet and had asked to fly at 38,000 feet to avoid bad weather.

When air traffic controllers granted permission for a rise to 34,000 feet a few minutes later, they received no response.

A source said radar data appeared to show that the aircraft made an "unbelievably" steep climb before it crashed, possibly pushing it beyond the Airbus A320's limits.

The source, who declined to be identified, added that more information was needed to come to a firm conclusion."It appears to be beyond the performance envelope of the aircraft," he said.

Online discussion among pilots has centred on unconfirmed secondary radar data from Malaysia that suggested the aircraft was climbing at a speed of 353 knots, about 100 knots too slow, and that it might have stalled.

Some of the bodies recovered so far have been fully clothed, including a flight attendant in her uniform.

That could indicate the Airbus was intact when it hit the water and also support the aerodynamic stall theory.

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It is all speculation, no one will really know

until the CVR and FDR are found and the data analyzed

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Hey Ricky, Let me call BS on your post.

 

 You didn't sit on the jumpseat because it's forbidden in CAAP regulations, and no Captain is going to risk his career to let some private pilot foreigner occupy his jumpseat.  

 

 I've been there/done that as a holder of a CAAP ATPL flying for a Philippine carrier.

Well, you have made your mind up, and I doubt I can change that. But I can assure it did happen, just after boarding I showed my FAA PPL to the pilot and asked for a look at the flight deck, and was invited to stay for the duration of the flight, and was the last person to disembark. Rightly or wrongly, it happened. It didn't particularly surprise me.

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One thing this disaster has done to me is to make some changes for travel planning to the Philippines and back to Australia in the future:

 

 

  1. Less but longer trips so less flying
  2. Only fly non-Monsoon Season. I think Monsoon Season is from around October to December, give a month or two each side so I will not fly from September to January anymore
  3. I  will still fly Air Asia but I will now also consider other airlines even if I must be a little more
  4. I will only fly in large Airplanes ( I think when you book you can see the plane model before you checkout).
  5. I will check weather conditions a few days before my flight and if severe I will cancel my flight even if there is no refund
  6. I will look at going to church for spiritual improvement and less fear of dying

This is just one of many things I have read that make you reconsider flying without a worry:

 

 

Peter Marosszeky, an aviation specialist fellow at the University of NSW, recalls flying a Boeing 747 jumbo many years ago that plunged more than 30,000 feet after hitting an air pocket.

 

"The smaller the aircraft, the more prone it is to suffer serious control conditions where the pilot can lose control of the aeroplane," he says.

 

Even so, on early evidence that Soejatman has seen of what happened to QZ8501, the violence of this storm was extreme. It seems to have tossed this 70-tonne, $US90 million marvel of engineering and polymer composites like a toy into the sea at a sense-defying 24,000 feet per second.

 

"It didn't fall out of the sky like an aeroplane," Soejatman says. "It was like a piece of metal being thrown down. It's really hard to comprehend ... The way it goes down is bordering on the edge of logic".

 

source: http://www.smh.com.au/world/airasia-flight-qz8501-faces-from-a-lost-flight-20150102-12gqo6.html

 

 

A good pilot or two is also a must:

 

 

He points out that the challenges confronting the pilots of Qantas flight QF32 in November 2010 when their A380 suffered a mid-air engine explosion was a classic example of "how a complex machine can almost cause the aeroplane to crash and burn". Disaster was averted, and the plane was able to make an emergency landing at Singapore without physical injury to passengers or crew, because five experienced pilots were on board.

"If you had lesser pilots with lesser experience you would have a disaster on your hands," he says. 

Edited by Tamed
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