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riklynbor

Building Using Insulated Roof Panels.

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contraman

Amazing. I never had a clue how concrete hollow blocks were made. Thanks!

Thats okay, some don't know how babies are made :)

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riklynbor

Thats okay, some don't know how babies are made :)

 

Well i am not to load a clip about that sorry .  :censor:

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riklynbor

Pic 1 is of 5 watt LED light in webbed truss.

Pic 2 is of master bedroom and bathroom taking shape

Pic 3 is of interlocking blocks to show strength they did not know how to do this at the start but are getting quite good at it now.

 

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riklynbor

Well we are coming to the end of the roof project and I am going back to Australia to be with my loving wife and children. I have been missing them so very much. I hope to remember a picture of the installed ridge capping before I go back. Thanks for your interest and advice. Now the walls need finishing before glass installation. The glass quote came close to 300k but that is for a lot of glass. It is amazing the change in 7 weeks. Our building site now is resembling a house. There is still a lot of work to be done but even now I am proud of our achievement. Maybe I will start a new blog about the complete build if there is interest? Rik

 

 

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Edited by Hell Boy
attached images to post.
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Enuff

 

 

Maybe I will start a new blog about the complete build if there is interest?

 

are you kidding me.............. MUCH INTEREST HERE!!!

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to_dave007

I'm new to this site, and just read this thread for first time.

 

My Texan friend Lavoy (R.I.P) and I built single story houses in northern Cebu in late 2013 and early 2014 with Union Galvesteel roof.  Lavoy's was built about 5 months ahead of mine, and Lavoy's and I cooperated throughout design and construction, until his passing.  Roof is approximately 140 square meters (mine) and 160 square meters (Lavoy).  Used the same Union Galvesteel steel design, but without the bonded insulation, so installation was applied in sheets on top of the steel purlins at standard spacing.  If I can figure out how to provide some photo's I can try to show the roof.

 

I involved a mechanical engineer in design, and both Lavoy and I used same foreman to lead construction crew (really excellent guy by the way).

 

Lavoy's house had roof on, and was in direct path of the winds coming on shore from Yolanda.. which as you know were quite strong.  His roof came through with FLYING COLOURS with zero leakage and zero wind damage except by one falling 90 foot tree which just clipped one edge.  I weathered Yolanda in Cebu 100 meters from the ocean from inside a building with an L shaped concrete wall protecting from the wind, and fully open on the other two sides..  and let me tell you it scared the living shit outta me.  The wind was like nothing I could have imagined, and I saw one tree..  15 feet tall.. so not big.. simply snap it's 6" to 8" trunk like a match stick in one gust.  In my municipality alone there were more than 1000 power poles broken..  and an unimaginable number of trees.  

 

Since your roofing panels are different from mine, with the bonded insulation, I can't comment on the strength of the long spans.  However if Union Galvesteel vouches for the strength I would feel comfortable, as I did find them both knowledgeable and helpful when I went to their Consolacion (Cebu) factory.

 

I'm an engineer, but not a mechanical engineer, but as I look at your roof design the main "fear" that I would have relates to the strength of the structural steel.. the trusses..  you've used to hold up the centre beam.  I'm sure the centre beam itself is fine, but those front and back trusses look pretty "light" to me.  The back one seems light but might be "ok", simply because I assume you've anchored it in multiple places along the roof beam.  But that front beam would scare me, as it will place ALL the mechanical loads into the two locations where it mounts to concrete, one at either end, with no other ties to the concrete structure, and fairly limited bracing within the truss.  Looks to me like you are planning to have an overhang at the front of the houses, and that you want an unobstructed glass view, likely out over the water.  I fear that you front truss may be much weaker than you think.  If you look at the design of the building that gave you inspiration for your house, you can see that the front truss is artfully designed, but the key thing is that it's designed for a higher strength, and without such weak points. 

 

I can see that you are past that point in your construction, and that this comment may not be helpful coming at this time.  For that I'm sorry and I sincerely hope I'm wrong. Maybe I don't know enough about what materials you used for the trusses.

Edited by to_dave007

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riklynbor

The strength of the truss has been brought up before. Materials for the upper section of the truss is 50mm x 5mm angle iron and the base is 2 heavy-duty C channel welded face to face. The weight of these are quite substantial. During construction of the roof the truss did not sagg even 1mm. Please follow my calculations. The panels are about 50kg each making total weight of panels 1100kg. The steel center pole hidden in the double wall would take 50% of the weight leaving 25% for front and back truss. This is 275kg for the back and front truss. Then most of the weight of that is taken by the 2 outer support points due to the slope of the roof panels.. But say for this instance 50% that leaves about 140kg of downwards force in the centre of the front beam which is minimal. Even with 3 more people standing on the completed roof over the front truss there is no sagg.

Also The font of the house does not overlook the water the house is deep in the mountains and it overlooks a hill. As the crow flies the house is 7 klm from the sea. There are close up pictures of the truss in this blog. About the roof that gave me inspiration it has a much bigger span than our house.

 

Local  roofs here get a lot of damage due to the guage of roof steel used. You can roll it up like tin foil and wil tear in the wind. They use it because it is cheap. Yes Galvasteel recommended this thickness panel for my span using 0.4 guage steel both sides. The guage of steel used in my panels is 0.6 on top and 0.6 bottom. I have stood mid span with 2 other workers about 200kg the panels sagged a little but most roofs would with 200 kg.

 

Thanks for the concern though. Rik

 

PS my roof is by far stronger than local roofs here that I have seen and that were not affected by Yolanda.

Edited by riklynbor
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to_dave007

I see your point about the strength of the truss to carry the weight you have on it.  I was more concerned about the wind load coming from underneath in that front section .. if the wind tries to lift the roof off.  I saw some places where the wind bent up some trusses pretty good.  But you do seem to have built quite a bit of strength into that truss.

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oztony

I see your point about the strength of the truss to carry the weight you have on it.  I was more concerned about the wind load coming from underneath in that front section .. if the wind tries to lift the roof off.  I saw some places where the wind bent up some trusses pretty good.  But you do seem to have built quite a bit of strength into that truss.

 

You know I have stayed away from comment on this from the beginning , Rik is doing such a fantastic job on this build and I can appreciate the aesthetics that he is trying to achieve .

I am not an engineer , I am a carpenter that can build a house from the ground up on my own , so I can also appreciate the comments from our engineers that we have here .

I believe structurally Rik has done well , but in saying that , I do think the comments in regard to uplift forces of the wind have merit , especially at the front overhang section of the roof .

Even though it may never occur , it is the 1 in a 100 situation that it might , given the aesthetic look to remain the same , a solution may be a couple of stay arms , painted the same colour as wherever they are mounted ,

they don't have to be permanently mounted for all to see , but could be mounted in a position against the gable , or on the underside of the roof (blending in with the right colour) and they could pivot out to or down to a fixing , the use of which only to be engaged when a force that warrants it is on the way . possibly somewhere midspan would do ,like on a 45 degree angle from somewhere on the gable to underside of roof , could possibly just be done with one inch round bar . If this was catered for before the gable was sheeted/clad you would be able to weld in a mounting plate in the right position to allow for it , and I don't think the look of what is being achieved would be compromised. I am not going to go into support / whatever where it is fixed to on the underside of roof panels , that goes without saying .

Righto , now fella's slap me down

Edited by oztony

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riklynbor

Nahh not gona slap you down as I have thought of similar ideas myself. If the front does peel up from the wind it would only go as far as the front truss. Overhang is only 1800mm or 1.8 sheets at the center and 1 meter at the side. The 9th panel that reaches just over the front truss has been screwed to the truss along its full length through the 5mm angle bar. With the screws every second tile or less than 600 apart. The reason I have no eaves down the sides or rear of building it for precisely that the wind factor. If it does happen and the 2 front sheets get damaged that is not a big job to replace.

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riklynbor

Front view of the house not the most spectacular not like the rear view but I still like it

 

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riklynbor

If you use Google+ look me up under Rik Bor tell me who you are that you are from Living in Cebu and I will add you as friend for more pictures. Rik

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Headshot

Pic 1 is of 5 watt LED light in webbed truss.

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that at some point you will wish that you installed double LED spots rather than LED recessed lights in the beam above your balcony. The spots have the advantage of being able to put a lot of light exactly where you want it.

 

Something like this...

 

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Edited by Headshot
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riklynbor

There will be similar lights along the outside walls above the beams. But the lights in the beam are spring loaded and if desired you can put offset rings behind them giving a certain amount of control. But I am hoping the light wil reflect off the ceiling giving a even distribution of light. We wil find out when the time comes.

 

 

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that at some point you will wish that you installed double LED spots rather than LED recessed lights in the beam above your balcony. The spots have the advantage of being able to put a lot of light exactly where you want it.

 

Something like this...

 

attachicon.gifSpot Light.jpg

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to_dave007

Not sure if you already bought your electrical panel.. or what size you need.

 

When I built mine I wanted a panel sized bigger than what I could find easily, plus I wanted a ground rod that I could not find locally.  Electrician kept telling me we could get the ground rod at Cebeco, the local utility, but they were always out of stock.  So.. end result was that I needed to go shopping for the panel and the ground rod, and could NOT find what I needed in any of the normal spots.

 

Then.. one Pinoy customer at one of the hardware places I was trying directed me to several electrical stores near the Carbon Market in Cebu City.  Racking my brain trying to remember name of the stores.. I think SureBright Electric was one of them.. anyway there are about 4 of them all within about a 2 or 3 block area, and if you have hard to find electrical requirements these are the place to go.  Plaridel Street . I think..  If you ever need this then PM me first and I'll get better directions. 

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riklynbor

Not sure if you already bought your electrical panel.. or what size you need.

 

When I built mine I wanted a panel sized bigger than what I could find easily, plus I wanted a ground rod that I could not find locally.  Electrician kept telling me we could get the ground rod at Cebeco, the local utility, but they were always out of stock.  So.. end result was that I needed to go shopping for the panel and the ground rod, and could NOT find what I needed in any of the normal spots.

 

Then.. one Pinoy customer at one of the hardware places I was trying directed me to several electrical stores near the Carbon Market in Cebu City.  Racking my brain trying to remember name of the stores.. I think SureBright Electric was one of them.. anyway there are about 4 of them all within about a 2 or 3 block area, and if you have hard to find electrical requirements these are the place to go.  Plaridel Street . I think..  If you ever need this then PM me first and I'll get better directions. 

 

Thanks for the info buddy but already installed. I drew up my own electrical plan with the approval of a local Seleco contractor. I have three panels one for each floor.

A 10 switch board on the first floor with a main 100 amp breaker then I run number 6 cable to each floor to separate 6 switch panels. Reason being that if there is a problem on one of the floors the rest of the house is fine and no need to go all the way down stairs to reset the breakers.

 

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towboat72

im getting ready to buy roofing forthe house im building.can you tell me if what you used is available in cebu and if so where at  

 

 thanks iv enjoyed you project it has been VERY informative

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riklynbor

It is available anywhere in Philippines but it is only made in manila and needs to be shipped to where it is required.

I  ordered mine from Union Galvasteel in Cebu who in turn ordered it from the factory in manila who shipped it to me. Be aware it takes about two months for manufacture and delivery so order in plenty time.

im getting ready to buy roofing forthe house im building.can you tell me if what you used is available in cebu and if so where at  

 

 thanks iv enjoyed you project it has been VERY informative

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towboat72

It is available anywhere in Philippines but it is only made in manila and needs to be shipped to where it is required.

I  ordered mine from Union Galvasteel in Cebu who in turn ordered it from the factory in manila who shipped it to me. Be aware it takes about two months for manufacture and delivery so order in plenty time.

thats what i needed to know,again thank you

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to_dave007

In Cebu, Union Galvesteel is located in Consolacion (or was it Liloan - not sure where boundary is.. I think on Consolacion side though) right on the North Coastal Road, on the ocean side, about 1/2 way from the old Cansaga Bay bridge to the spot where the north coastal road joins back up with the main Cebu North Road in Liloan. It's a big place. Looks like a factory. They open at 8am. When you get there go through security and you'll be given a priority number (e.g. now serving number 8.. at 8:15 I was # 2 in the line) and sent into the main office. Most of the people arriving there are contractors who know what they want.. and some owners. Walls have lots of samples of the various products. They'll bring out a specialist.. and for those of you who've shopped at places like Wilcon you are in for a pleasant surprise.. as these specialists really do know their stuff. Even the receptionist in that room is very knowledgeable. If you talk to her about the stuff she might surprise you.

 

riklynbor is right, I think, that the Galvesteel he's using (i.e. bonded with insulation) is made at main Manila factory and was shipped to him from Manila. The Galvesteel I used was "made" in Manila as well, but is shipped to Cebu in a big roll.. and is unrolled and "formed" and cut to length there in that Consolacion factory. The Consolacion factory does not have the ability to apply the colour to the metal.. or fasten the insulation riklynbor used.. but it can do most "cut to order" on more standard jobs (i.e. without the insulation). I think Consolacion maintains inventory of all the standard colours.

 

If you do go to their office, it's a good idea to take your roof drawings with you, and the drawings of the roof beams and trusses. Photo's if you have them. If you ever place an order with Union Galvesteel they will need your full drawings, and measurements, because they cut all the roof pieces to order. which means a lot less waste for you.

 

Which reminds me.. riklynbor how did they do with the lengths of your pieces.. did you need to trim them? or was length good already?

Edited by to_dave007
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riklynbor

In Cebu, Union Galvesteel is located in Consolacion (or was it Liloan - not sure where boundary is.. I think on Consolacion side though) right on the North Coastal Road, on the ocean side, about 1/2 way from the old Cansaga Bay bridge to the spot where the north coastal road joins back up with the main Cebu North Road in Liloan. It's a big place. Looks like a factory. They open at 8am. When you get there go through security and you'll be given a priority number (e.g. now serving number 8.. at 8:15 I was # 2 in the line) and sent into the main office. Most of the people arriving there are contractors who know what they want.. and some owners. Walls have lots of samples of the various products. They'll bring out a specialist.. and for those of you who've shopped at places like Wilcon you are in for a pleasant surprise.. as these specialists really do know their stuff. Even the receptionist in that room is very knowledgeable. If you talk to her about the stuff she might surprise you.

 

riklynbor is right, I think, that the Galvesteel he's using (i.e. bonded with insulation) is made at main Manila factory and was shipped to him from Manila. The Galvesteel I used was "made" in Manila as well, but is shipped to Cebu in a big roll.. and is unrolled and "formed" and cut to length there in that Consolacion factory. The Consolacion factory does not have the ability to apply the colour to the metal.. or fasten the insulation riklynbor used.. but it can do most "cut to order" on more standard jobs (i.e. without the insulation). I think Consolacion maintains inventory of all the standard colours.

 

If you do go to their office, it's a good idea to take your roof drawings with you, and the drawings of the roof beams and trusses. Photo's if you have them. If you ever place an order with Union Galvesteel they will need your full drawings, and measurements, because they cut all the roof pieces to order. which means a lot less waste for you.

 

Which reminds me.. riklynbor how did they do with the lengths of your pieces.. did you need to trim them? or was length good already?

 

Well as my intro says I am a jack of all trades and people who know me well will tell you I'm a master of some lol.

I  designed this house from the foundation up every measurement is mine there is not one thing I do not know about this house or one part I have not worked on. I worked out what I needed and order that. The panels are made to order they dont come in standard lengths.

I was blessed with good hands and a brain that wants to learn everything. Realy sounds like I'm blowing my own whistle here lol. But it is just who I am. :yourock:

 

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to_dave007

For my Texan friend Lavoy and I we had the opposite problem. We each wanted to build a house, fairly similar in size, in our chosen municipality WITHOUT having as much ability as you to be able to do as much of the work. Trust me when I was younger I would love to have rolled up my sleeves and got into it like you are in these photo's.. and I did do that with my first house in Canada.. and my second. But age makes it less and less a possibility unfortunately.. and Lavoy was 72.. so it really wasn't an option for him.

 

So Lavoy and I worked away at it as best we could.. Our first designs were done by the moonlighting municipal engineer who would have had to approve the plans, and he quoted on the full building cost at same time.. and after about a month of scratching our heads both Lavoy and I concluded he was both full of shit.. and trying to make as much as he could. In the end Lavoy got plans done through his wife's sister (friend of some cousin) and his wife's brother-in-law Hermes.. was Lavoy's foreman. and Lavoy had the entire house built while he was in Texas.. starting around 1 June 2013 and finishing 1 November 2013 all via phone calls.. while Lavoy and I reviewed costs and photo's as he went. Then I arrived to help him 1 September and he arrived 1 October. I'm sure that there was some wasted money, but really.. not much. Hermes proved to be a REALLY honest man (impeccably honest really), and he did such a good job that I hired him, and his entire construction team, to build my house after he built Lavoy's. The only difference is that I was there for the full job, rather than trying to do it from a distance. I wouldn't recommend that ANYONE do it the way Lavoy did.. from a distance.. simply too many things you need to be right there for. Small decisions.. like what color for XX or what size for YY.

 

Anyway.. the construction team moved from Lavoy's house to mine around 1 November 2013 (a week before Yolanda). By that time I had drawings prepared by the engineers at my local university, and I had all of Lavoy's monthly cost summaries, and I put together the building permit application and submitted it.. didn't get approved until about 4 weeks after I'd already started construction, but that proved not to be an issue. And away we went. and by the end of March 2014 we were moved in, with all tiles done, but lots of painting still going on (oh.. and no working kitchen.. cooking over a fire out back), and by May 10 or so the last construction guys left. and thankfully I stopped spending money.

 

Would have been nice to be as involved in the daily work as you.. but then as age happens there's lots of things I could say that about.. and wishing ain't gonna make it happen.. so one must be more accepting of one's limits.

 

There was still lots for me to do though.. as buying stuff for all the "finishing touches".. like plumbing and electrical fixtures.. kitchen counters.. tiles.. paint.. and 1000 other small details consumed LOTS of time nonetheless. I own a 1995 Toyota Tamaraw there.. it's a member of the family.. and the old girl carried lots of stuff back over the mountains from the city.. one load was close to 2000 pounds of just paint and paint related supplies.

 

Great experience.. enjoyed it all.

Edited by to_dave007
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riklynbor

Well dave we had similar problem. Î drew up the plans for it house as we would in Australia but that was not acceptable here so I had to get a local architect to redraw my plans but up to Pinoy specs. He also offered his services to oversee the build for a fee of P250,000 he would go and check the house sometimes. Also his materials list was a bit to be desired one item that was on the list that made me suspicious was paint well the 200 litres of primer and 600 litres paint he wanted money for to buy. I did not use his services either.

Even though the house is costing more than his quote we have used materials not in his list such as steel decking, stronger concrete, more concrete, or own CHB and the roof panels to name a few. Also a lot more glass than in the original design. I think or cost wil be about 40% higher.

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to_dave007

In my area, if someone goes into a hardware store to buy materials on my behalf, they get a commission from the hardware store. So If I send Hermes into the store to buy 5,000 peso of "stuff", then he will get a commission (i.e. cash kickback) of 3% to 5% (150 to 250 peso), depending what items were purchased. Of course, I bought hundreds of thousands of materials in those stores.. so this commission would be quite sizeable over a full project. Likely 30,000 to 50,000 peso.. just for routine building supplies (coco lumber, CHB, rebar, steel, nails, Portland, etc etc).

 

So what I did was I went to the owner of the store and asked him:

 

a) what discount he would give me if I purchased mostly from him

 

b) Would he extend credit, so that Hermes could order supplies whenever he needed, and sign a delivery receipt, and I would go to the store once a week and pay the total.. with all the signed delivery receipts.

 

I think I got an average of about 4% off.. Not HUGE .. but that money remains in my pockets.. not someone elses.

 

And BTW.. This is not "foreigner pricing".. this commission scheme works for everyone. I even bought stuff there myself for 1000 peso.. listed price.. and pay with a 1000 peso note.. and had then give me 30 peso commission.

 

As for the paint I WAS surprised how much we used. The concrete just sucks up the primer like a sponge.. I used mostly Boysen paints.. and a product called Boysen AcriTEX (sp?) which is like a thin putty and which they apply on the walls after the primer to fill in holes and smooth the wall. Then they sand it.. and apply again.. and sand again. and apply again and sand again.. for what seems like forever. Must have used 200 sheets of sand paper at least. All hand sanded. End result does look pretty good though.

 

The lead painter I had was pretty good.. and he taught the wife's brothers how to paint. Before.. they just slopped it on and made a mess and I don't speak enough of the language to correct them. Now, they do quite well.

 

Also my all-in bottom line cost was lower than what had been quoted.. but not by much.. But that's more MY doing than anyone else's, as I decided part way through to put nicer finishes in a number of areas then we originally planned. Simply decided if I'm gonna live there then F**K IT.. I want it comfortable.

Edited by to_dave007
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riklynbor

There is a hardware store here in Maasin that charges the same price to foreiners as the locals unlike all the other stores. You can tell coz it is where you find foreiners looking for hardware. Mostly if i feel im gettong ripped of ill send one of the workers to get a price for me and if it is lower I will confront them. They drop the price soon enough if you tell them you take your business elsewhere.

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