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Jim in Cebu

Did you use a digital voltage meter ?

 

Yes.

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SunStar   http://www.sunstar.com.ph/cebu/local-news/2014/06/08/veco-offers-solar-power-public-347232   Veco offers solar power to public   By Elias O. Baquero Sunday, June 8, 2014 THE Visaya

I would be so into this if a) cebeco III was doing it (Toledo)  and b) if there was a 2 or 3kw option.  We spend 6 months in oz and 6 months here.  Oz place generates more than we use annually so we g

The offer sounds interesting (at a superficial level)...  However, I'd sure want to know a whole lot more before investing.   One of my concerns would be maintenance and durability of a system that

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Woolf

There can be a problem measuring AC voltage with a digital volt meter

 

If there is a lot of "noise" on the AC the digital meter can be fooled

and not show the correct voltage.

Your ground reference ( water pipe ) may not be a good ground

and could pick up a lot of "noise".

 

I have heard some people measuring something like you measured,

I have been wondering why, and would like to hear what an analog meter

shows.

 

CDR-King have some very cheap analog meters

 

here is one

 

http://www.cdrking.com/index.php?mod=products&type=view&sid=15037&main=146#.U5xboXbryWY

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Jim in Cebu

110v 110v supplies is new to me here but if you are getting different voltages to a water Pipe it seems to me that the earthing is not right . Normally the FE Functional earth is a copper electrode driven into the ground and is separate to other earths.. they are merely Equipotentional bonding connected to the FE . But here most of the time it goes back to the Pole and is earth through the transformer . So any residual Current/Voltage  running back will go through multiple routes .. that might be why you get different voltage s.. ( Just a theory ) 

 

 

Thanks for the feedback questioning my assumption that the two hot leads should be 110v each.  I could be wrong of course.

 

There's a really good (and long) article on Philippine electrical systems located at http://myphilippinelife.com/philippine-electrical-wiring/ .  As Bob, the website/blog author points out, there are many different opinions as to how things should be done in the Philippines -- and there is an extensive comment section where people express different opinions.

 

However, there are at least two major electrical grid type systems in the Philippines:  A three-wire (110v/110v/neutral) and a two-wire (220v/neutral) configuration as I understand it.  The three-wire is located in some major cities and on former US military bases (according to some posters) and the two-wire configuration is used elsewhere.

 

One comment which may relate to the different hot-to-ground voltages I found said:

 

-- begin comment --

The Philippine system is a GROUNDED system because the neutral wire is/SHOULD be connected to a ground rod at the pole where the transformer is and a ground rod and/or cold water pipe at each house. This keeps the transformer secondary from floating: the neutral wire at zero volts and the hot wire about 220 volts, depending on the service company’s supply voltage. The neutral wire will be at zero volts because it is connected to ground. If you have anything other than zero volts, you have a loose, dirty, or missing connection to the ground rod; or you are using your volt meter incorrectly (which is not unusual). The neutral wire is also called the “GROUNDED” wire and it should have white insulation throughout the house.

-- end comment --

 

Based on that comment, the apartment I'm in may have a grounding problem.  I'll have to read more and look into this more.

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Jim in Cebu

There can be a problem measuring AC voltage with a digital volt meter

 

If there is a lot of "noise" on the AC the digital meter can be fooled

and not show the correct voltage.

Your ground reference ( water pipe ) may not be a good ground

and could pick up a lot of "noise".

 

I have heard some people measuring something like you measured,

I have been wondering why, and would like to hear what an analog meter

shows.

 

CDR-King have some very cheap analog meters

 

here is one

 

http://www.cdrking.com/index.php?mod=products&type=view&sid=15037&main=146#.U5xboXbryWY

 

Thanks, Woolf.

 

My digital voltmeter died awhile back, but I have a cheap analog one.  I'll give it a try later.

 

I went back through my old emails and found a reference to the different voltages dated July 2011.  At that time, one leg was running 160v and the other about 40v.  (My earlier statement of 140v was incorrect.)  

 

I also tested the voltage at one of our nearby relative's home (who is on a different transformer) at that time and noted a similar situation, but the actual voltage values were different.

 

It will be interesting to see what the analog meter shows now.  

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Woolf

      The APC back up was a surge suppressor. It is supposed to protect the items connected through it. Be they on the circuit with battery back up, or the surge protected only side. But was it properly grounded? Not probably too well at that time. Since then, I have installed grounded 3rd prong circuits in the house, connected to the rebar that extends to the footings. Also it is hard to prove, but we were not having a thunder storm at that time.

      Sony was able to get a new power board from Singapore to Dumaguete in about a week, and I think it was only about 5 or 6K installed by there tech. He also converted the 110 volt TV to 220 at the same time.

     I am amazed the refrigerators and our freezer were not damaged too. 

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Mikala

 

 

He also converted the 110 volt TV to 220 at the same time.

 

Hmm... if the Sony techs would convert their TVs to 220v, it would sure make those 60" TVs for sale a lot more attractive! Who wants a voltage converter unit sitting on the floor by the wall outlet?

 

They do that on demand (with payment, of course)?

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David_LivinginTalisay

There can be a problem measuring AC voltage with a digital volt meter

 

If there is a lot of "noise" on the AC the digital meter can be fooled

and not show the correct voltage.

Your ground reference ( water pipe ) may not be a good ground

and could pick up a lot of "noise".

 

I have heard some people measuring something like you measured,

I have been wondering why, and would like to hear what an analog meter

shows.

 

CDR-King have some very cheap analog meters

 

here is one

 

http://www.cdrking.com/index.php?mod=products&type=view&sid=15037&main=146#.U5xboXbryWY

 

 

At our House/Lot in Tierra  Grande, Lawa-an 1, Talisay City, I added a ground spike and chose the back of the house where the drains went to the septic tank since there must be a few seepage leaks as the ground always seemed moist damp when digging there (bedie it was concreted over.

 

When I measured from the heavy gauge Earth wires, clamped to those ground spikes it measured about 200V to one leg and about 35V to the other (and about 235V ac across the Live1 and the (not so) Live2

 

This was with a cheap analog Meter much like CDR King version

 

15037_1.jpg

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Woolf

Thanks David

 

So using an analog meter, does not change the measurements

I am trying to find an explanation to why those strange voltages are

measured

 

?????

 

I have lived in 2 houses with ground in the outlets

and both places I measured about 120 v  from each leg to ground

At both places the pole transformer was within 30 meters from

the house and at one place I know that no neutral is going to the house

Edited by Woolf
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Mikala

Unbalanced voltages usually occur because of variations in the load. When the load on one or more of the phases is different than the other(s), unbalanced voltages will appear. This can be due to different impedances, or type and value of loading on each phase. Essentially, the resulting current unbalance is caused not only by the system voltage unbalance but also by the system impedance, the nature of the loads causing the unbalance, and the operating load on equipment, particularly motors. Single-phasing, which is the complete loss of a phase, is the ultimate voltage unbalance condition for a three phase circuit.

 

Some of the more common causes of unbalanced voltages are:

• Unbalanced incoming utility supply

• Unequal transformer tap settings

• Large single phase distribution transformer on the system

• Open phase on the primary of a 3 phase transformer on the distribution system

• Faults or grounds in the power transformer

• Open delta connected transformer banks

• A blown fuse on a 3 phase bank of power factor improvement capacitors

• Unequal impedance in conductors of power supply wiring

• Unbalanced distribution of single phase loads such as lighting

• Heavy reactive single phase loads such as welders

 

My best guess would be that 1 phase is severely overloaded due to the utility setting up the transformer taps for 1 area and then having hundreds of people stealing power off from that transformer...

 

I defer to Headshot's better judgement though. I was only in transmission and distribution for 5 years. I'm an amateur compared to him.

Edited by Mikala
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Woolf

How can there be an unbalanced load in the veco area

see attached top drawing

 

 

post-6705-0-87235900-1402900388_thumb.jpg

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Mikala

 

 

How can there be an unbalanced load in the veco area

 

I assume VECO transmits power 3-phase. If any 1 phase is overloaded, it would drag everything down with it. I still defer to Headshot as the expert in this though.

 

He's probably busy over at Smokey's eating some Tillamook cheese...

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contraman

 

 

He's probably busy over at Smokey's eating some Tillamook cheese...

Or trying to entice him out from under the bed :)

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David_LivinginTalisay

Thanks David

 

So using an analog meter, does not change the measurements

I am trying to find an explanation to why those strange voltages are

measured

 

?????

 

I have lived in 2 houses with ground in the outlets

and both places I measured about 120 v  from each leg to ground

At both places the pole transformer was within 30 meters from

the house and at one place I know that no neutral is going to the house

 

 

Woolf it is down to the Step-down transformers being used, the winding types, and the EARTHING arrangements, I understand.

 

I recall there was a very good post to this Forum somewhere with an excellent explanation of the different types employed by various Electic Companies in the Philippines.

 

I see to recall that VECO should ground/earth the chassis/core and deliver effectively 0V and 240V on the 2 x conductors.  But if that ground connection is not very good iot might not be 0V wrt Earth Ground?.

 

In the UK I believe the top wire between pylons carried Earth OV/Ground wire all the way from the generators Chassis, and that gets distributed along with Live and Neutral (ie 3 wires into the house).

 

The electric is usually delivered underground also.

 

But not every where since in Cornwall the ground is often granite, so individual houses are grounded and the parallel connections improves the Earth connection locally via overhead power cables.

 

 

 

220px-Polemount-singlephase-closeup.jpg

 

post-6705-0-87235900-1402900388.jpg

I am not sure this is correct?  

 

What is the source of this Document to ascertain if VECO and CEBCO are not the other way around?

 

From my analog meter reading measurements, and knowledge of Electrical/Electronic theory, I would have labeled the middle one as being VECO!

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Woolf

David

 

I made the drawings of the pole transformer connections

 

Please read this post and onward

 

http://www.livingincebuforums.com/topic/59693-electric-power-220v-vs-110v/?p=761265

 

anyway take the time to read the urls I provided in this post #20  in this thread

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