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tom_shor

Besides it leaves less for the politicians to divide up and put in their pockets with a hole.

 

Jobs would certainly be better than hand outs. You know what you have one year after feeding a million hungry people? 1.5 million hungry people.

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Jobs would certainly be better than hand outs. You know what you have one year after feeding a million hungry people? 1.5 million hungry people.

 

What jobs??? You mean the millions of jobs that would be available here if the politicians were not trying to force international investments and companies out? Imagine if they just let one major international corporation in here to operate without all the stupid stuff, could you easily say at least 10k jobs from one small state-of-the-art plant.

 

Maybe if they stopped auctioning of all the rice the government brings in and sell it themselves then there would be less starving people. I don't know about you, but the 1 gallon cans of peanut butter in the States that are distributed by the government is actually very good believe it or not.

 

-Nick

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Aerosick
...but the 1 gallon cans of peanut butter in the States that are distributed by the government is actually very good believe it or not.

 

I used to trade cigarettes for the cheese...

 

Billy

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broden

teach a man to fish ... then steal the fish

 

 

sounds like something they'd go for

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I used to trade cigarettes for the cheese...

 

Oopps... Forgot about the government cheese... yap that was good to.

 

If the government wants to solve their poverty issues, they need to stop being so darn greedy... And maybe even start taxing the remitted income... because thats what it is. If I were to send my mother 10% of my income... She would have to pay 33% in taxes as a luxury income, but then again.. that would require too much thought and seeing as they are already working so very hard for their income, the politicians don't have the time to devote to things that affect the general populous.

 

-Nick

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What jobs??? You mean the millions of jobs that would be available here if the politicians were not trying to force international investments and companies out? Imagine if they just let one major international corporation in here to operate without all the stupid stuff, could you easily say at least 10k jobs from one small state-of-the-art plant.

 

Maybe if they stopped auctioning of all the rice the government brings in and sell it themselves then there would be less starving people. I don't know about you, but the 1 gallon cans of peanut butter in the States that are distributed by the government is actually very good believe it or not.

 

-Nick

 

What is better? Development that comes from a fickle foreign corporation that can come and go as they wish or development that comes from Filipinos becoming self reliant and starting their own small businesses? A major corporation comes for one reason, low wages, wages go up and they leave. The goal of any development should be to increase wages and the standard of living.

 

Laws don't need to be changed to let foreign companies more easily exploit Filipinos, instead laws need to be changed for everyone.

 

- The business permit process needs to be simplified. There needs to be changes in the laws to make it easier for FILIPINOS to start and grow businesses.

 

- Loan programs need to be initiated to give small businesses access to cheap capital. Financing a small business with a money lender who lends at 4% a month is ridiculous. I don't know about the rest of you, but it's damn difficult to start a business that gives an ROI of more than 4% per month.

 

- The education system needs to be overhauled. It's appalling how little the government is spending on education despite having some of the highest tax rates in Asia.

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I used to trade cigarettes for the cheese...

 

Oopps... Forgot about the government cheese... yap that was good to.

 

If the government wants to solve their poverty issues, they need to stop being so darn greedy... And maybe even start taxing the remitted income... because thats what it is. If I were to send my mother 10% of my income... She would have to pay 33% in taxes as a luxury income, but then again.. that would require too much thought and seeing as they are already working so very hard for their income, the politicians don't have the time to devote to things that affect the general populous.

 

-Nick

 

 

So more taxes, Nick? The Philippines has some of the highest tax rates in Asia. Increasing tax rates is not the solution. Enforcing current tax laws is. Start doing some comparisons around Asia and you will see for yourself.

 

When I first read your 10% comment, I thought you were talking about the gift tax in the US, but even in the US the gift tax is paid by the donor, not the donee and it isn't 33%.

 

Talking about the Philippines, it is ridiculous to tax remittances. By taxing remittances, you are putting the government's hands in the money before it even reaches its destination. With all of your posts against corruption in the Philippines, I find it amazing that you would suggest handing even more money over to those thieves and crooks. They can't even properly handle the money they get now and you want to give them more?

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mattwilkie
What jobs??? You mean the millions of jobs that would be available here if the politicians were not trying to force international investments and companies out? Imagine if they just let one major international corporation in here to operate without all the stupid stuff, could you easily say at least 10k jobs from one small state-of-the-art plant.

 

Maybe if they stopped auctioning of all the rice the government brings in and sell it themselves then there would be less starving people. I don't know about you, but the 1 gallon cans of peanut butter in the States that are distributed by the government is actually very good believe it or not.

 

-Nick

 

What is better? Development that comes from a fickle foreign corporation that can come and go as they wish or development that comes from Filipinos becoming self reliant and starting their own small businesses? A major corporation comes for one reason, low wages, wages go up and they leave. The goal of any development should be to increase wages and the standard of living.

 

The best world economies do well because they are open book where anyone can operate a business. Its ok to say stop international business and work with only Filipinos. But most foreigners in RP (that i know of) would happily operate a small business. Which has several advantages over a lot of other

businesses that could start via local filipinos.

1. Generally they are older and full of life experience (most filipinos with business interest are at best 30s and under).

2. They have a lot of ideas which are new to the Philippines and could be brought in and developed in the Philippines industries. You can only sell so many squid balls.

3. They have capital that gives it a more likely chance to succeed with minimal or no debt at all.

4. A lot of the time its more of a hobby of interest which in turn will help develop local peoples skills but at the same time i doubt a retire wants to expand more than they have to, so the chances of it opening to franchise is much higher.Laws don't need to be changed to let foreign companies more easily exploit Filipinos, instead laws need to be changed for everyone.

 

Agree with this totally. Business should be for the benefit of all.

 

- The business permit process needs to be simplified. There needs to be changes in the laws to make it easier for FILIPINOS to start and grow businesses.

 

- Loan programs need to be initiated to give small businesses access to cheap capital. Financing a small business with a money lender who lends at 4% a month is ridiculous. I don't know about the rest of you, but it's damn difficult to start a business that gives an ROI of more than 4% per month.

 

Biggest problem is theft and lack of ability or willingness to repay debts. Its the same anywhere in the world. As soon as debt gets out of control the banks start yanking up the interest to compensate. A better scheme would be to stop wasting money on a lot of these NGOs and change to assisting with micro loans and micro business management to help people have more chance of success. But at the same time you need to change a lot of peoples mentality.

 

- The education system needs to be overhauled. It's appalling how little the government is spending on education despite having some of the highest tax rates in Asia.

 

I havent got too involved in the Education system. But from discussions with many that dont know where many countries are in the world even after graduation from a college or university it does make me worry where the system is functioning. Although i wouldnt want a system similar to the UK where kids know about Romans and vikings but cant read,write or count. The 60s and 70s done a lot of damage to the education in the UK and its becoming a big problem reversing it.

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The best world economies do well because they are open book where anyone can operate a business. Its ok to say stop international business and work with only Filipinos. But most foreigners in RP (that i know of) would happily operate a small business. Which has several advantages over a lot of other

businesses that could start via local filipinos.

1. Generally they are older and full of life experience (most filipinos with business interest are at best 30s and under).

2. They have a lot of ideas which are new to the Philippines and could be brought in and developed in the Philippines industries. You can only sell so many squid balls.

3. They have capital that gives it a more likely chance to succeed with minimal or no debt at all.

4. A lot of the time its more of a hobby of interest which in turn will help develop local peoples skills but at the same time i doubt a retire wants to expand more than they have to, so the chances of it opening to franchise is much higher.

 

Exactly. I think the business environment needs to be opened, period. It should be opened in a way that everyone can benefit. Many of the changes to the business environment that are designed to help Filipinos would naturally help anyone trying to open a business.

 

 

Biggest problem is theft and lack of ability or willingness to repay debts. Its the same anywhere in the world. As soon as debt gets out of control the banks start yanking up the interest to compensate. A better scheme would be to stop wasting money on a lot of these NGOs and change to assisting with micro loans and micro business management to help people have more chance of success. But at the same time you need to change a lot of peoples mentality.

 

The debts don't get paid because the interest rates are too high and there is no real scheme for compelling the payment of a loan. It's all about antiquated business practices that exist for the sole reason of perpetuating the ruling oligarchy. Opening up business environment, and improving aces to capital would affect them negatively.

 

I havent got too involved in the Education system. But from discussions with many that dont know where many countries are in the world even after graduation from a college or university it does make me worry where the system is functioning. Although i wouldnt want a system similar to the UK where kids know about Romans and vikings but cant read,write or count. The 60s and 70s done a lot of damage to the education in the UK and its becoming a big problem reversing it.

 

The Philippine government spend about 6k pesos per year per student on education. Malaysia spends the equivalent of 56k pesos per student per year. Thailand spends the equivalent of about 48k pesos per year.

 

The Philippine government has a budget for the construction of new schools and classrooms, but the government provides no budget for the maintenance of existing buildings.

 

Read my statement above about the tax burden in the Philippines......the tax rates are some of the highest in Asia.

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mattwilkie

At the end of the day everything revolves round the rich and powerful families of the Philippines and they will do whatever it takes to stay that way. The education system like i said im not too aware of but like everything seems that people look to benefit where they can which is where school uniforms etc come in to create extra revenues for the schools even if the family cant afford (although i did watch a new report the other day that is abolishing the uniforms due to this matter, although when i was at school the reason we had uniform was that it everyone was the same and stopped people having designer clothing etc. so who knows if its right or wrong).

 

I dont think the country will change in my lifetime its convenient for a lot of reasons for the wealthy and internationally there are a lot of people and countries that benefit for the Philippines being the way it is, look how China has changed in the last 10 years and how its changing world markets does the rest of the world really want 3rd world countries to start getting on the same band wagon?

 

Although i agree with all your points i dont believe we will see it change. There is no international pressure or interest, there is no local interest to force change. The higherarchy are happy with things who will change it?

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What is better? Development that comes from a fickle foreign corporation that can come and go as they wish or development that comes from Filipinos becoming self reliant and starting their own small businesses? A major corporation comes for one reason, low wages, wages go up and they leave. The goal of any development should be to increase wages and the standard of living.

 

I know several Filipinos that are making P30,000/mo working at Bigfoot. If they worked anywhere else they would be lucky to get P10,000/mo.

 

I know many more Filipinos that are making 3 to 5 times the "Government Minimum Wage" and they are working at foreign owned business. Don't get too far ahead of yourself now. Yes, it is true that major foreign businesses come here for the cheaper wages, but that does not mean that they are exploiting the workers. If anything, it is the Filipino businesses that are exploiting workers.

 

If I wanted to start a business... which I am. I know that I only need X amount of pesos to survive, yet after going through the million hassles to be allowed to own the business, which of course should not be hassles to begin with, I am still going through with it. For starters, as the owner of a business and a manager of its functionality, it is stupid for anyone to tell me that by managing my own business, my own money is taking jobs away from a Filipino that can do the management. No... in 99.9% of the cases... No a Filipino cannot do a better job at managing my own hard earned money so that is just stupid. Now, the whole concept of the business owner getting a "Working Visa" is just a way of making more pocket money for the politicians and so I have decided to bend over backwards and deal with it.

 

Now, since I know how much I need to make, how much I am willing to spend etc... Its called a business plan which I have never heard of any local business using one. I can make products, sell them at 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of any place else, while at the same time... employing 2 to 3 times as many Filipinos at above standard wages.

 

I am sure that most of us foreigners would do the same thing. We know how much we need and anything over is just a luxury. Most of us, not including myself and a couple others, already have some form of residual income meaning the business is more of a hobby to keep busy.

 

Now as far as your tax statement goes... I just laugh at that. My wife is always like, "Oh the taxes are just way too high!" I was paying 25% of my income to the government back when I delivered pizza in Phoenix for the simple fact that it was tipped income which means I am responsible for the entire thing. I had to pay 12% sales tax on anything not of eatable nature in Scottsdale, and that was just the VAT. My uncle pays 35% because he is self employed... on top of that, he has to pay it quarterly instead of yearly. I could care less if the tax is the lowest in Asia... it is still too low to run a government efficiently. Even at 25% when the money is not budgeted right we have to deal with education and health shortages. I showed my wife a tax return and her jaw dropped and never again did she ever complain about me making her pay her income taxes by telling her to get her TIN.

 

This country need more jobs and not the underpaid scamming jobs offered by Filipino owned companies but rather jobs offered by international businesses who on a annual basis can make more money than the Philippines Gross National Product ($87,770,680,000).

 

-Nick

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I know several Filipinos that are making P30,000/mo working at Bigfoot. If they worked anywhere else they would be lucky to get P10,000/mo.

 

I know several Filipinos that are making 4k a month working for a foreign fish processing plant. I know several Filipinos working for less than min wage at Korean language schools.

 

I know many more Filipinos that are making 3 to 5 times the "Government Minimum Wage" and they are working at foreign owned business. Don't get too far ahead of yourself now. Yes, it is true that major foreign businesses come here for the cheaper wages, but that does not mean that they are exploiting the workers. If anything, it is the Filipino businesses that are exploiting workers.

 

I know many Filipinos who are making more than 3 to 5 times the min wage and they own their own small businesses. They have been able to succeed despite difficult requirements to open a business and the high cost of capital.

 

I also know Filipinos who are working at below min wage at foreign owned businesses.

 

If I wanted to start a business... which I am. I know that I only need X amount of pesos to survive, yet after going through the million hassles to be allowed to own the business, which of course should not be hassles to begin with, I am still going through with it.

 

Filipinos have to deal with these hassles as well. Why not deal with the hassles and make them easier rather than creating special business loopholes for foreign owned businesses?

 

For starters, as the owner of a business and a manager of its functionality, it is stupid for anyone to tell me that by managing my own business, my own money is taking jobs away from a Filipino that can do the management. No... in 99.9% of the cases... No a Filipino cannot do a better job at managing my own hard earned money so that is just stupid. Now, the whole concept of the business owner getting a "Working Visa" is just a way of making more pocket money for the politicians and so I have decided to bend over backwards and deal with it.

 

It's the name of the game here. If you want to manage your own money, then it's a good idea to go back to your home country. I have no problem with a work permit being required for a foreigner doing work. While it would be a good idea to change it, there are many more pressing things to change.

 

Now, since I know how much I need to make, how much I am willing to spend etc... Its called a business plan which I have never heard of any local business using one. I can make products, sell them at 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of any place else, while at the same time... employing 2 to 3 times as many Filipinos at above standard wages.

 

I am here to disagree. I am privy to several businesses that are getting off the guard here locally in the next 6 months to a year and every one of them has a business plan. Maybe you are talking business to a different group of people?

 

Corporations have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders. This means that they need to do things in the best interest of the shareholders, that means paying prevailing wages to get the most qualified people into the position. It doesn't mean hiring workers and paying them out of charity.

 

I am sure that most of us foreigners would do the same thing. We know how much we need and anything over is just a luxury. Most of us, not including myself and a couple others, already have some form of residual income meaning the business is more of a hobby to keep busy.

 

Great, it's great to operate a business as a charity, but that doesn't do anything to help the overall economy. It breeds inefficiency. The Philippines needs business efficiency and busineses that have done that are growing and becoming more profitable.

 

Now as far as your tax statement goes... I just laugh at that. My wife is always like, "Oh the taxes are just way too high!" I was paying 25% of my income to the government back when I delivered pizza in Phoenix for the simple fact that it was tipped income which means I am responsible for the entire thing. I had to pay 12% sales tax on anything not of eatable nature in Scottsdale, and that was just the VAT. My uncle pays 35% because he is self employed... on top of that, he has to pay it quarterly instead of yearly. I could care less if the tax is the lowest in Asia... it is still too low to run a government efficiently. Even at 25% when the money is not budgeted right we have to deal with education and health shortages. I showed my wife a tax return and her jaw dropped and never again did she ever complain about me making her pay her income taxes by telling her to get her TIN.

 

Since when did Phoenix move to Asia? It is ridiculous to compare taxes in the Philippines with the US. Compare the taxes with another country of similiar socio-economic background to get an idea if the taxes are high or not.

 

I think you need to read again what I wrote. The Philippines taxes things at a rate that should be plenty for running the government and providing needed services. I never said that taxes were too low. In fact I said the opposite.

 

Secondly, my friend. Self employment consist of two parts, the income tax and the social security tax. 17.3% belongs to Social Security.

 

But back to the issue of taxes. Do you even know what taxes are charged in the Philippines? Do you even know how they compare with over countries in Asia? I know you don't care, but how can you say taxes are too high or too low if you have nothing to compare them with??????

 

Let's compare Thailand and the Philippines. Why? 20 years ago, they were about equal in soci-economic factors. Since precise figures are not that important, dollar amounts are roughly converted from the base currency.

Here are some facts:

 

VAT:

Philippines 12%

Thailand 7%

 

Personal Income Tax:

Philippines: Income of less than $1300 is not taxed.

Income of between $1300 and $1500 is taxed at 5%

Income of between $1500 and $2000 is taxed at 10%

Income of between $2000 and $3000 is taxed at 15%

Income of between $3000 and $6000 is taxed at 20%

Someone making just $13000 a year is paying 32% of their income as taxes

Thailand: Income of less than $6,000 a year is not taxed.

Income of more than $6,000 and less than $16,000 is taxed at 10%.

 

Corporate Income Tax:

Philippines: 32% non progressive rate on net taxable income

Thailand:

30% non progressive rate on net taxable income, but exemptions are made for small businesses.

Those businesses with net profit of less than $30,000 pay only 15% tax, and businesses with more than 30,000 in income but less than $100,000 pay taxes of 25%.

 

Social Security Taxes:

Philippines: 7.07% for employer and 3.33% for employee up to a max of 1560 pesos($37 a month) (but don't forget PhilHealth and Pag-Ibig contributions!) Self employed people pay the whole 10.40% themselves.

Thailand: 5% from employer, 5% from employee, up to a max of 1500 baht($50 a month)

 

What does Thailand do with the tax money? They spend 8 times as much on public education. The roads are in good shape and they provide universal health care.

 

I think it's pretty clear that the Philippines has very high tax rates, but I would be interested in anything that you can offer up to show that taxes are too low. I just ask that you post hard figures and not just opinions.

 

Oh, and just so you know, with that pizza delivery income here in the Philippines, you'd paying more than 40% of it as taxes.

 

This country need more jobs and not the underpaid scamming jobs offered by Filipino owned companies but rather jobs offered by international businesses who on a annual basis can make more money than the Philippines Gross National Product ($87,770,680,000).

 

Can you tell all of us the name of a single company that makes more than $87 billion dollars a year????? Let me give you a hint. There is not a single company in the world making more than $87 billion a year.

 

Or are you talking about revenue? Just so you know, revenue is very different from profit. Anyways, there are 62, count them, 62 companies with revenue of more than $87 billion a year. And guess what? I can recognize the names of 17 of them that are currently doing business in the Philippines.

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Filipinos have to deal with these hassles as well. Why not deal with the hassles and make them easier rather than creating special business loopholes for foreign owned businesses?

 

I never said anything to the contrary. I disagree that anyone should have to deal with as many hassles which makes it impossible for a small business to be able to compete.

 

It's the name of the game here. If you want to manage your own money, then it's a good idea to go back to your home country. I have no problem with a work permit being required for a foreigner doing work. While it would be a good idea to change it, there are many more pressing things to change.

 

Already said that I was dealing with it. Besides... I bet you did not have any clue that I have a TIN number and that I have been paying taxes to the BIR for almost 2 years now did you? Every quarter, when I make money online or through other sources, part gets set aside and paid in taxes.

 

I am here to disagree. I am privy to several businesses that are getting off the guard here locally in the next 6 months to a year and every one of them has a business plan. Maybe you are talking business to a different group of people?

 

Corporations have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders. This means that they need to do things in the best interest of the shareholders, that means paying prevailing wages to get the most qualified people into the position. It doesn't mean hiring workers and paying them out of charity.

 

There is only 241 listed and publicly traded corporations in the Philippines. While there may be more corporations, they want to make sure they keep controlling interest and thus do not go public.

 

Great, it's great to operate a business as a charity, but that doesn't do anything to help the overall economy. It breeds inefficiency. The Philippines needs business efficiency and busineses that have done that are growing and becoming more profitable.

 

Who said anything about charity, I could hire twice as many workers as I need and at the same time sell for 1/3 to a half of what the "bigger" companies are charging and still hold an 80% profit ratio. So it just makes you wonder about the larger companies who only do good, because there is no other choices or any real competition to drive the prices down.

 

Since when did Phoenix move to Asia? It is ridiculous to compare taxes in the Philippines with the US. Compare the taxes with another country of similiar socio-economic background to get an idea if the taxes are high or not.

 

I think you need to read again what I wrote. The Philippines taxes things at a rate that should be plenty for running the government and providing needed services. I never said that taxes were too low. In fact I said the opposite.

 

Secondly, my friend. Self employment consist of two parts, the income tax and the social security tax. 17.3% belongs to Social Security.

 

But back to the issue of taxes. Do you even know what taxes are charged in the Philippines? Do you even know how they compare with over countries in Asia? I know you don't care, but how can you say taxes are too high or too low if you have nothing to compare them with??????

 

Pag-ibig is not a requirement, PhilHealth is but both of them combined is equal to Social security, the major difference is you can get pay advance loans, most of the hospital bill covered as well as buy a home and get retirement all together with these.

 

Can you tell all of us the name of a single company that makes more than $87 billion dollars a year????? Let me give you a hint. There is not a single company in the world making more than $87 billion a year.

 

Or are you talking about revenue? Just so you know, revenue is very different from profit. Anyways, there are 62, count them, 62 companies with revenue of more than $87 billion a year. And guess what? I can recognize the names of 17 of them that are currently doing business in the Philippines.

 

I said income... not profits.

 

Exxon Oil took in more than 400 billion in income last year... Microsoft had 51 bil last year... General Motors had 47 bil... Toyota had 232 bil... Walmart had 378 bil last year.. and theres more but I am too busy to look up all the exact figures.

 

Ayala (the riches Filipino by the way) only had 368 mil last year... Philippine airlines was only 140 mil last year...

 

Of course these are all in US Dollars and not Pesos.

 

Now of course I am finished even arguing this mute point for the simple fact is that there needs to be more business, less greed and easier business licensing in this country. Without it, there is no concept of free market or even allow one to be competitive against another company. Why are most of the malls owned by the big department stores? because if a mall opened up with room for two or more key stores, the department stores would be unable to continue with their 200+% profit ratio and would have to compete just to sell anything. Of course the thing I cannot figure out though, is if the Pesos is so worthless, why does the Philippines have more gold reserves than Singapore unless the government is doing it on purpose to attract business just to bash them.

 

-Nick

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