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U.S. Citizens - If you have $10K+ in a foreign bank, read this


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Monsoon

 

 

didnt complete any of the form other than signing it

 

You signed a blank document? 

 

You are full of trust.

 

 

 

 

Upon my return from the US (March 3rd), I opened a USD Savings Account at Canadia Bank. I had to fill out a W-9 form, prior to opening the account. 

 

That will be the last account I ever open in my name, anywhere.

 

What's wrong with filling out a W9? 

 

I have yet to have any Philippine bank ask me to complete any US government document. But if they did, a W9 would be the least of my worries. 

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i parked twenty-eight cents in a USD account with the Coconut Planter's bank   the interest ain't much but the manager has superb tits   and let's me stare down her blouse for free.   and has so

Been discussed before but in actuality it's the total amount of money in all foreign banks/investments being over the $10K limit.  So $2K in foreign stock and $9K in foreign bank accounts means you ha

I will take the red flag because I haven't been asked and I will not sign anything giving up my banking secrecy rights.   They will be surprised much to their chagrin that my bank balances history

lopburi3

The W9 is a simple name/address/SSN - all information that most banks would have on records anyhow.  

 

But understand everyone has there own agenda - had a co-worker some 40 years ago decide to pack up and live armed and underground in the Midwest to avoid the end-of-the-world that he believed was coming.  He could have been right but luckily for me (and most) he was not.  Paul may have his own reasons for feeling the W9 is symbolic of something else - but in itself do not believe it is anything to be concerned with.  Here in Thailand it is starting to be asked for new accounts.

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throttleplate

The W8BEN has nothing to do with an American citizen ownership of an account. It has everything to do with foreign ownership of a US based account. Either your bank manager is a total idiot, or your advisors are or both. 

 

In fact, if you are truly a United States citizen, and you did in fact complete and sign a W8BEN then you did in fact perjure yourself.

 

Did you not read the second line under Part III?

 

FYI, it says, "The person named on line 1 of this form is not a U.S. person"

 

 

Well anyway. You best find yourself someone qualified to give you advice, apparently you have some serious investments here in the Philippines if they are asking you to fill out and return a W8BEN.

well this morning I walked the 2 blocks to bdo bank to deal with the w8ben document. They pulled my file and there it was and I crossed out my name and defaced it as the girl looked shocked. I then took my copy and showed her the 2 lines stating if you are a us citizen do NOT fill out this form and she then took it to her manager and came back apologizing for the mistake and said they will contact me when they get the right form which probably is the W9 as so states next to the us citizen line to use.

 

I am to blame for this as I just read the title and signed it and will now be more cautious and bring the paper home next time and use a magnifying glass so I can read it as the print is so small. Just cant trust anyone when it comes to documents whether here or in the usa and should always take time to read it over and don't feel rushed so take it home and study it.

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  • 11 months later...
TheWhiteKnight

I will have to file the FBAR next year due to the deposits I just set up for my SRRV.

 

 

well this morning I walked the 2 blocks to bdo bank to deal with the w8ben document. They pulled my file and there it was and I crossed out my name and defaced it as the girl looked shocked. I then took my copy and showed her the 2 lines stating if you are a us citizen do NOT fill out this form and she then took it to her manager and came back apologizing for the mistake and said they will contact me when they get the right form which probably is the W9 as so states next to the us citizen line to use.

I am to blame for this as I just read the title and signed it and will now be more cautious and bring the paper home next time and use a magnifying glass so I can read it as the print is so small. Just cant trust anyone when it comes to documents whether here or in the usa and should always take time to read it over and don't feel rushed so take it home and study it.

 

Yes, they tried this on me at one of the banks, they gave me both the w8ben and w9, I pointed out the w8ben didn't apply to me. She went away to check and said ok. I just filled out the W9.

 

 


I have yet to have any Philippine bank ask me to complete any US government document. But if they did, a W9 would be the least of my worries. 

 

BPI forced me to come in an sign a W9 for my 3 year old account. Also during opening the two different banks and accounts the FATCA questions and stuff are baked right in to their standard account opening forms now. They really embraced it. It's like the standard is to assume you are a "US Person" until you can prove otherwise, even their own citizens.

 

I really didn't want to give any one in PH my SSN and other key information but I had no choice. What I did was put a credit freeze on all 3 of my credit reports which should make it harder for someone to steal my identity and get new credit. Gotta do what you gotta do I guess.

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Johnny S

"The penalties for failure are extreme as it is designed to be used against organized crime when nothing else can be found"

 

I am afraid that "organized crime" is just the cover story, same as "russian money laundering" was the cover story when they froze all the accounts and grabbed bank deposits last year in Cyprus, same as when they say "it's for the children". The big crash is coming down the road, they know it, and they want to be able to put their hands on every single dollar you have.

 

Writing is on the wall people. We can't say we didn't get any warning.

You are right...Big brother is watching... :cool:

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Monsoon

I am puzzled by the comments that suggest an explanation for delinquent FBAR filings can be provided. The online system does not seem to have a portion for any sort of text or attachments. The process shows a block to be checked when filing late and then a drop down menu for reason is provided. No place to offer explanations that I could see.

 

You might want to look closer, because it is there. It is a drop down selection menu for reasons plus a 750 character space for further explanation.

 

I would consult with a tax attorney before submitting a written reason for late filing. It is sort of like giving an explanation for speeding - you just admitted guilt.

 

From FBAR late filing instructions:

 

 

 

Follow these steps to resolve delinquent FBARS
  • Review the instructions
  • Include a statement explaining why you are filing the FBARs late
  • File all FBARs electronically at FinCEN
  • On the cover page of the electronic form, select a reason for filing late
  • If you are unable to file electronically, contact FinCEN's Regulatory Help line at 1-800-949-2732 or 1-703-905-3975 (if calling from outside the United States) to determine possible alternatives to electronic filing.
  •  
Edited by Monsoon
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Jawny

You might want to look closer, because it is there. It is a drop down selection menu for reasons plus a 750 character space for further explanation.

 

I would consult with a tax attorney before submitting a written reason for late filing. It is sort of like giving an explanation for speeding - you just admitted guilt.

 

From FBAR late filing instructions:

I just followed the instructions on the form and made a selection from the drop down choices. No need for a written explanation. Easy peasy.

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  • 1 year later...

I didn't wade through the 7 pages of posts but as none of them seemed current---I will add this.

This years deadline for filing FBAR is April 15, 2018.

After talking to a couple of expats locally I came away with a possible misunderstanding some might have about filing FBAR. If the combined total of all your accounts in the PI exceed $10K for even one day, you must file FBAR listing each account.If you have a joint account with your wife perhaps, you need to fill out form 114a and keep it in your records.Hope that this helps.

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There are some accounts which are exempt from the reporting such as a annuity deposit to a Philippine bank branch in the USA. 

A joint account such as a peso passbook must be included in the report.  Even ATM accounts are to be included.

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  • 2 months later...
Oz Jon

I'm sorry to learn that the US IRS is like the Australian ATO.

They put a lot of time and effort into chasing up soft targets (small players, like you and me) for a few dollars, while the big boys (some wealthy people and particularly big-business)  get away with avoiding paying their fair share of tax -  legally or otherwise! - millions of dollars less than a fair thing!

What percentage of their income was taxed at the normal (~30%?) business rate by Apple, Google,  etc, etc? .....

... Compare it with your % rates on significantly lower income!

ps. I just looked up Apple - their 30Sept income was $230B and they paid $16B in tax .

That's about 7% of their reported income (which is questionable anyway, with all their offshore financial arrangements) !

pps. I own APPL shares - If you can't beat them, join them! :D

Edited by Oz Jon
ps and pps
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Monsoon
On 2/1/2018 at 5:05 PM, Jawny said:

There are some accounts which are exempt from the reporting such as a annuity deposit to a Philippine bank branch in the USA. 

 

In such case that would make it a non-foreign bank account therefore not subject to FBAR filing. 

Edited by Monsoon
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rfm010
12 hours ago, Oz Jon said:

I'm sorry to learn that the US IRS is like the Australian ATO.

They put a lot of time and effort into chasing up soft targets (small players, like you and me) for a few dollars, while the big boys (some wealthy people and particularly big-business)  get away with avoiding paying their fair share of tax -  legally or otherwise! - millions of dollars less than a fair thing!

What percentage of their income was taxed at the normal (~30%?) business rate by Apple, Google,  etc, etc? .....

... Compare it with your % rates on significantly lower income!

The fbar isnt about taxes.  At least not directly.  It is about reporting overseas holdings.  Purportedly to aid the fight against money laundering, but of course the info could be used to investigate tax avoidance.  And as a way to bust people on whom you want to call 'shenanigans' but you cant quite prove it.  Some people in the ongoing muellar investigation, such as (as a guess) paul manafort, will likely run into fbar problems.  But for the vast majority of people, just report a good approximation of the max you had in each overseas account (individual account values may be under 10k, it is the sum total of all accounts that matters) and all is good. 

For the true kanos out there, 2 things.  First note i said good approximation.  Its in the directions.  Exact amounts arent required.  Second, you can file up to 6 months late with no explanation required.  Third, the on time deadline is now april, it used to be june.  But again, for all intents, october will do.

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lopburi3
3 hours ago, Oz Jon said:

I'm sorry to learn that the US IRS is like the Australian ATO.

They put a lot of time and effort into chasing up soft targets (small players, like you and me) for a few dollars, while the big boys (some wealthy people and particularly big-business)  get away with avoiding paying their fair share of tax -  legally or otherwise! - millions of dollars less than a fair thing

Actually this was designed, and is used to prosecute, the big boys.  It is not a tax - just a way to jail those avoiding tax by shifting money into foreign accounts in an attempt to hide it.  Yes there are penalties but they are normally reserved for real criminal cases if not done intentionally.    

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Oz Jon
16 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Actually this was designed, and is used to prosecute, the big boys. ....... 

Right! - I understand what you and rfm are saying.

But if the real target is the big boys and big money launderers,  then they are  putting a hell of a lot of people and companies to a lot of unnecessary trouble, time, effort and expense with a $10K reporting threshold. 

$1M or at least $100K threshold would be far more appropriate (and save a lot of trees!).

ps.

In this day and age, big brother doesn't need you to tell him if you have overseas bank accounts. He probably even knows what you had for breakfast!

Edited by Oz Jon
ps
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