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Debate on Common Core Curriculum


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rainymike

The number line is a useful tool a long way beyond addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. It is more difficult because it is preparing students for skills that will be presented later on in their academic career.

 

The learning objective is familiarization with a mathematical tool, not solving basic arithmetic.

 

I cannot understand why there needs to be local input to curriculum. The right answers aren't dependent on location, in fact I'd like to see global guidelines. Needless duplication at local levels wastes resources that should be spent on education, not endless bickering by bureaucrats.

 

The learning tools that got us to the moon are inefficient and outdated. The number line is a mental slide rule, that has merit in multiple mathematical disciplines.

 

Of course number lines and standards make sense. They have utility. But I don't believe those are the issues at hand.

 

Real education occurs in the classroom at the interface between the school and the family and the community. I don't believe that any standard whether its math or art appreciation exists in any pure objective reality. Sorry, but I believe that is cookbook education. 

 

I believe curriculum is subject to interpretation - not only in terms of what a standard is, but how that standard is taught and within the social framework of a community. It should be shaped by the school administration, by teachers-parents, and by the community. Too often its shaped only by textbooks and educational bureaucracies.

 

Now the standard of performing division is straight forward. Most people would say, yeah kids should know division. The issue that's at the center of controversy is how that's taught. In my experience here, it's been mostly a pedagogic issue. I didn't feel the method used was effective. Most other parents agreed with me. In our own ways many parents had a discussion with the teacher about the method. And we used work arounds. Now, perhaps blindly following some textbook was efficient for the teacher, but it was hardly an effective approach from the standpoint of the student.

 

The issue is also controversial because of community values. I intentionally send my kids to a private Christian school. I'm not a practicing Christian nor any kind of holy roller. But in evaluating the school, I felt that religion was used appropriately to help shape values and behaviors of children in ways that I agreed with. I also felt the school was tolerant of other religious beliefs. So in the case of our kids, sometimes bible examples are used as part of the framework for teaching everything from civics to math. But the school does it in ways that I'm comfortable with. Others would find these methods objectionable. That's fine ... take your kids to another private that you are comfortable with. 

 

And in the end, the relationship between the teacher, our kids and us is a good one. We have a small number of disagreements, but we are on the same page most of the time. The school actively seeks our participation and input. We gladly give it. And we have a voice in matters. In my opinion the principal of the school plays it wisely. She wants the community to develop a sense of ownership for the school. Recently, the kids had to take some kind of a face to face national exam with people from the education department. The pressure was on the teachers. The students had to perform to standards. The teachers turned to the parents to help out. Our son did well. When asked why, I told them the truth. I threw out the textbook and showed the kids the old fashioned way to do the arithmetic.

 

All this is just practice for college. There, curricula is mired down in 'standards'. Now, one would think the standards for math would be straight forward and objective. I disagree. Now, I am perfectly in support of kids acquiring some level of numeracy and quantitative thinking. The issue for me boils down to how that's taught and what content is necessary to achieve that. And whether anyone wants to believe it or not ... there are broad agendas out there that want to shape the curriculum. Even in healthcare, you'd think that the standards should be clear and straight forward. Not so, in my opinion. The unions, the professions, the hospitals, politicians with the funds - all have different agendas. And, those agendas often have more to do with the well being of the hospital, the unions, the professional group, or the politician than the students or patients.

 

Just my opinion, but a smart community will insist on some ownership over that curriculum and not leave the issue to some state bureaucracy to decide. That's been my experience.

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Yes, there should be a local component to education.  Totally agree.  However, although I am opposed to the US Common core as it exists today, I agree that there should be education standards in terms

What about doctors?  If the doctor is trained by common core standards, how they get to an answer is more important than saving a life.  Again with a police officer, the process of aiming a gun at a s

Now I understand - this is a program that will be forced on every student for an unspecified time for the benefit of what could be a very small minority.   If it is to benefit a certain segment who

lamoe

What you said made perfect sense. Too bad it appears that a majority of parents, single and couples, don't give a shit about their kids educations.

 

What's the difference between a middle class suburban high school and one that it is a neighborhood not so affluent? I'm not talking ghetto/slum.

 

Exceptions for their kids and the willingness to provide the parental guidance it takes to instill that dream. Without that, school is just a holding ground until they can drop out and the bureaucrats will dictate what's taught.

 

Money helps but attitude and guidance count for a lot more.

 

My mother didn't. My brother failed,I didn't.

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lamoe

 

Not in the US it isn't.

 

Common sense has no place in our schools today. Same with teaching fundamental principles of numbers. Common Core's numbers line is in essence saying our children aren't able to conceive of positive and negative numbers.without a visual representation.

 

Take a public school that totally embraces Common Core vs a traditional  hard line Catholic school - guess which one will beat the crap out of the other in any area you chose except maybe basketball, football, and baseball. You know the ones where the students have maybe 1 change in a hundred thousand of making a living. 

 

Bill is $5.42 - give cashier a $10, a $1, 1 dime $0.10, a nickel $0.05 and 2 pennies $0.02 - wait for the dumb looks and attempts to give you back everything except for the $10 

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thebob

 

 

Common Core's numbers line is in essence saying our children aren't able to conceive of positive and negative numbers.without a visual representation.

 

It is useful for the real numbers, rational, irrational, integers, whole numbers and natural numbers. It can be modified to express imaginary numbers in the complex number plane.

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rfm010

Bill is $5.42 - give cashier a $10, a $1, 1 dime $0.10, a nickel $0.05 and 2 pennies $0.02 - wait for the dumb looks and attempts to give you back everything except for the $10

 

 

ever stop to think that maybe you're the 10th person in a row trying to unload his pocket change and the guy has run out of quarters?

 

 

one of my brothers got religion and sent his kid to a lutheran high school, the type that had the commencement guest speaker state that "the only science one needs is what one can find in the bible".  the kid, now hoping to become a nurse, is struggling to make up for all the time lost during her high school "education". 

 

i am not familiar with the common core approach.  just the name of it is worrisome to me.  but there's nothing wrong with using visual tools like number lines when teaching math.  not everyone learns in the same way.  which, of course, may actually serve as a criticism of common core?

 

taught my daughter addition, subtraction and multiplication using dice.  taught her about infinity, directional movement, absolute values, graphing using number lines and rulers.  taught her probability using coins and dice.  cleaned out her piggybank teaching her that.  she soon got it all back teaching me slight of hand.  seriously.  she got a hold of my scarne on card tricks book without me knowing it and she got pretty good.  her manual dexterity is much better than mine.

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lamoe

ever stop to think that maybe you're the 10th person in a row trying to unload his pocket change and the guy has run out of quarters?

 

 

one of my brothers got religion and sent his kid to a lutheran high school, the type that had the commencement guest speaker state that "the only science one needs is what one can find in the bible".  the kid, now hoping to become a nurse, is struggling to make up for all the time lost during her high school "education". 

 

i am not familiar with the common core approach.  just the name of it is worrisome to me.  but there's nothing wrong with using visual tools like number lines when teaching math.  not everyone learns in the same way.  which, of course, may actually serve as a criticism of common core?

 

taught my daughter addition, subtraction and multiplication using dice.  taught her about infinity, directional movement, absolute values, graphing using number lines and rulers.  taught her probability using coins and dice.  cleaned out her piggybank teaching her that.  she soon got it all back teaching me slight of hand.  seriously.  she got a hold of my scarne on card tricks book without me knowing it and she got pretty good.  her manual dexterity is much better than mine.

ever stop to think that maybe you're the 10th person in a row trying to unload his pocket change and the guy has run out of quarters?

 

Nope. have never had that happen at Wallmat, they usually have spare rolls available in the till. if not they call for more.

It was an example of the reliance of younger people today on electronics rather than being comfortable with math.

 

one of my brothers got religion and sent his kid to a lutheran high school, the type that had the commencement guest speaker state that "the only science one needs is what one can find in the bible".  the kid, now hoping to become a nurse, is struggling to make up for all the time lost during her high school "education". 

 

There is a difference between fundamentalist and traditional. In Chicago, Lane Tech High was the premier public high school of its time, there were a dozen Catholic schools that were just as good if not better.in science, math, history, any subject that took discipline and work to understand. I agree that a religious  school that excludes secular principles is doing their students a great dis-service. 

 

My daughter had a choice to send my grandson to a Catholic school close to her or a private one. She inquired about the subjects presented how they were taught - decided Montessori was better.

They were  tested to determine student comprehension levels - his whole school is doing well above public school levels at all grades.

 

One of the primary reasons is that they are treated as very young adults and expected to behave as such. Teachers don't put up with any BS, if a student is really unruly they call the parents or grandparents - usually at work - to come get them. It's not their job to be babysitters.

 

Common Core could probably be taught here with success but it isn't needed.

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rfm010

ever stop to think that maybe you're the 10th person in a row trying to unload his pocket change and the guy has run out of quarters?

Nope. have never had that happen at Wallmat, they usually have spare rolls available in the till. if not they call for more. It was an example of the reliance of younger people today on electronics rather than being comfortable with math.

 

 

i think we need a tongue-in-cheek emoticon on this forum.

 

 

no, not this one:  :kissass:

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broden

i'm more concerned now days that my kid learn to math properly by hand rather than just falling back on computers and calculators 

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rfm010

 

 

i'm more concerned now days that my kid learn to math properly by hand

 

you'll be teaching him base 9 of course.

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lamoe

i think we need a tongue-in-cheek emoticon on this forum.

 

 

no, not this one:  :kissass:

Ok, thanks for explaining.  Since I'm not very good at it, I have a problem determining when a reply is tongue in cheek. tend to take what people say at face value. 

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broden

you'll be teaching him base 9 of course.

isn't everyone

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rfm010

now here's something i hadn't heard about before.  apparently teaching cursive writing is going out of favor?:

 

http://www.npr.org/programs/all-things-considered/2014/03/25/294361481?showDate=2014-03-25#

 

 
Does The Fight For A Cursive Comeback Miss The Point?

When was the last time you wrote in cursive? Was it a thank-you note for that birthday sweater? Perhaps a check to the baby sitter? The fact is, you may know how to loop and swirl with the best of them, but do your kids or your neighbor's kids know as well?

Across the country, many school districts years ago. The new Common Core State Standards now being implemented in most states never mention the word "cursive." Given longhand's waning popularity, lawmakers in , are now trying to legislate a cursive comeback.

The arguments in favor of cursive usually revolve around heritage or tradition. Some parents want their children to be able to read a letter from Grandma as well as our nation's founding documents. Some cursive supporters also invoke science, arguing that learning cursive helps young brains grow more than learning basic printing does.

 

etc etc...

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broden

 

now here's something i hadn't heard about before.  apparently teaching cursive writing is going out of favor?:

 

http://www.npr.org/programs/all-things-considered/2014/03/25/294361481?showDate=2014-03-25#

 

 

 

yeah it is , my kid is the only kid in his class that can write cursive .. i taught him 2 years ago.

 

but his teacher did say they will be teaching kids next year in 4th grade in his school

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lamoe

It may be the best thing since Twinkies but if the Gov is involved they'll turn it into crap.

 

With the present administration it's not about improvement it's about control.

 

Common Core emerges as potent election issue for fed-up parents

 

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Parents across the country may hold the key to this year's mid-term elections as they vent their anger over the implementation of a controversial education achievement measure called the Common Core State Standards Initiative.

Forty-five states and the District of Columbia have adopted the initiative in a bid, they say, to improve education standards in Math and English, and give new life to what many view as a sagging education system. Indiana recently voted to back out of Common Core.

But many parents see the initiative as a bid by the federal government to take over the education system. They are also angry over the "data mining" of students' personal information, and say the stepped-up standards are not age-appropriate and are leading to anxiety and depression in their children.

Analysts warn the parental opposition could spill over into the November elections.

"Those populist candidates are running against the Common Core, and they are going to say Washington is interfering with children's schooling ..."

- Tom Loveless, Brookings Institute

"You really have a populist reaction, and that's true on the left and the right," says Tom Loveless, a senior fellow with the Brown Center on Education Policy at Brookings Institute in Washington, D.C.

He predicts candidates opposing politicians from the establishment - or "at least trying to paint them as establishment candidates" - will take up the parental concerns.

"Those populist candidates are running against the Common Core, and they are going to say Washington is interfering with children's schooling and that teachers, parents and principals at the local level are better equipped to decide on what kids learn," he said.

Concurring is education expert Joy Pullmann.

"Common Core opposition is so completely grassroots, and support is so astroturf, " says the education research fellow for The Heartland Institute, a think tank headquartered in Chicago that promotes individual liberty and free enterprise.

"It is already becoming a primary and general election issue in everything from local school board races to gubernatorial and U.S. Senate races," she added.

According to Pullmann, the issue is "huge among mothers."

Arkansas mother-of-three Karen Lamoreaux told Fox News that more than 3,000 parents have formed a group opposing it. "We are now becoming active in the mid-term elections, pressuring candidates to take a stand on the issue," she said.

"It influences our vote because this reform is hurting our children," she added. "It is cognitively inappropriate and violating our parent rights."

Gigi Guiliano is another mother who got involved in campaigning against Common Core once she noticed a change in her ten-year-old son. "I would pick him up from school in the past and he was always happy... Now I pick him up from school and, after the first week of school, he got in the car and he says, 'Mom, I'm never going to smile again.' And that broke my heart."

After checking to see if he was being bullied or having problems at school, Guiliano realized he was reacting badly to the hastily implemented new curriculum. At that point, she began to investigate the issue, and later became active in the fight against it.

The complaints around the country have slowly pushed Common Core to the forefront of political discourse. The Heartland Institute's Joy Pullmann says it is an issue that has just started to come into play in Congressional and Gubernatorial races and primaries as far afield as South Carolina and Montana, and is affecting races in Idaho, Kansas, Maryland and recently in New York.

Indeed, U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), who faces a primary challenge from four candidates, wasn't even aware of the Common Core when asked about it at a Republican Party meeting last year. Yet he recently sponsored a Senate resolution that strongly criticized it and called on the Administration to back down.

"The Obama Administration has effectively bribed and coerced states into adopting Common Core," Graham told fellow Senators, adding: "Our resolution affirms that education belongs in the hands of our parents, local officials and states."

In New York, Democratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo seems to have got the message that voters in his state are not happy with how the Common Core was implemented. Though he is a strong supporter of the initiative, he also faces re-election this year, and so has established a panel to consider some of the complaints of parents, teachers and students. So far, however, he has refused to scrap the Common Core.

Rob Astorino, Cuomo's newly announced Republican opponent for governor, has made getting rid of what he calls "Cuomo's Common Core" one of his top priorities. In his video announcing his run he said it "has been a disaster for parents, teachers and children alike."

Guiliano, who voted for Cuomo last time around, said she won't be voting for him again. She pledges to support candidates who oppose it. "Parents are the ones that have control to make the change," she tells Fox News.

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