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Give them a chance


Brucewayne

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To be sure Lee had a great influence on singapore'a success but that is not what this thread was about. It is about indigenous people's being trampled by invaders or outsiders. Two different discussions.

 

Prewar Singapore was highly successful in being a trading hub. Modern day Singapore is now also successful in technology and finance. Lee and others can take credit for the modern successes but don't trash the first 150 years of their existence.

 

Ok no more trashing the first 150 years.  I thought the transformation of Singapore post war was relevant to the discussion on the Philippines along with the growth of other Asian countries.   What factors that the Philippines doesn't have that made them successful and not the Philippines?

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Something has dawned on me after all these years and it has been nagging me all this time, but I wasn't sure just what it was. The reason I didn't realize what the problem was in the Philippines befo

The title is Give Them a Chance .  Just how much chance/time do you have in mind ?  WW2 ended almost 70 years ago- so what are they waiting for ?  Are you saying that the way that westerners treat fil

well i'm not sure i agree with your analogy but hey we all have our own opinions. the way i see it is the local culture rabidly embraces the western way of life with all the trappings of gadgets, SUVs

My first memory of hearing about Mindanao was a national geographic article from the early 70's of a newly found tribe that lived their ancient ways.

 

I don't know the status of that tribe but the discussion in the OP could be applied to them. Does anyone know their status?

 

I remember reading about the Tasadays in Mindoro it turned out to be a hoax in part. 

 

Though there was some skepticism, the truth about the "lost tribe" of the Tasaday was not revealed until 1986, when Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos were removed from power.

With tight secrecy and government restrictions gone, a Swiss reporter visited the Tasaday and found that members of the tribe were living not in caves but in houses typical for the area. T-shirts and jeans had replaced loincloths on the members of the Tasaday, and they admitted that it had all been a hoax.

 

Elizalde had convinced local villagers to pretend to live in caves, in return for promises of money and aid. In fact, the local villagers who pretended to be Tasaday got little in return. Elizalde, the architect of the Tasaday hoax, skipped town in the early 1980s with a reported $35 million and a harem of teenage girls. He died at the age of 60 in 1997, ending the saga of another "lost tribe."

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Majorsco

What factors that the Philippines doesn't have that made them successful and not the Philippines?

I believe some of the factors are:

 

1. Family dynasties in business and politics is an extension of the lord and serf model. The people don't know how to live any other way. Even those in various good jobs are still subservient.

 

2. Culture of corruption (including intellectual property theft) at all levels and the acceptance, not just tolerance if it. Anti Corruption makes good headlines but it isn't really changing. The causes of corruption really haven't been addressed.

 

3. Filipinos don't all have the same work ethic. Many are hardworking. A lot more are only hardworking for short periods and when they don't want to work they just disappear or go fishing, etc. it's not just a few. Gambling and alcohol makes this worse.

 

4. Fear. They are afraid of technology. I had a maid that is afraid of electricity. She won't plug in an appliance. I see many older people just afraid like this. Younger people are more accepting.

 

5. No resource management. Philippines has a lot of natural resources but there is not much management.

 

 

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No facts to hand on this just what I hear a lot, but was Philippines not a powerhouse in the 70s and 80s (Marcos era). One of the stongest economies in Asia? What happened since then?

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tobster

 

 

Using the north american aboriginals as an example is not a good idea- because of all the peoples in the world [ outside of Australia] they seem to have been one of the most unwilling to learn to adapt to new cultures.   Almost all nations on earth at one time or another were  invaded by another culture . Most adapted .   Some refused to .  And in Canada today some still - hundreds of years later- refuse to adapt .    Adapt or perish .

The ones in Australia still sort of refuse to adapt. They have a "I'm aboriginal...give me money". So the govt. gives them a new house which they destroy in no time flat not to mention an income. Sometimes here I get " I am poor, please help me". They say give a man a fish and he he'll eat for a day etc but try that here and what's the result.

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Majorsco

The ones in Australia still sort of refuse to adapt. They have a "I'm aboriginal...give me money". So the govt. gives them a new house which they destroy in no time flat not to mention an income. Sometimes here I get " I am poor, please help me". They say give a man a fish and he he'll eat for a day etc but try that here and what's the result.

So they get you to give them a fish daily... Sounds like they know and use the system as much as they want. :)

 

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I believe some of the factors are:

 

 

I probably worded it wrong what I was asking was what did the other successful nations have that made them successful that the Philipines lacked?

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I was raised in outback Australia but lived and worked in cities and rural parts of Australia. And you had to do that to survive.

 

If I had been born here, in the provinces at least, I don't think I would have gone very far at all because the climate, the soils and the sea is continuously producing.

 

I think Art's point about Singapore is relevant because in Singapore they had and have to work and it is the same in most immigrant societies like Australia, America, Canada etc.

 

And they do work and adapt here. They have been at it for centuries, even prior to the arrival of the Spanish. Look at the histories of the trade goods between India, China and the whole Archipelago.

 

But if I'd been born here I'd go along to get along and if I really wanted to I'd go and work overseas.

 

I don't see your point actually!

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Majorsco

I probably worded it wrong what I was asking was what did the other successful nations have that made them successful that the Philipines lacked?

Two things, entrepreneurial spark and strength of will.

 

The other factors like capital, training, and experience come later and can be overcome if they didn't have it. The two factors I cited are not trainable but are inherent traits of the successful.

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I agree with the strength of will not so sure if all need to have entrepreneurial spark as I see a lot make little businesses.  I think one thing lacking is imagination, the ability to believe and imagine all things are possible.  Any others?

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hunger and starvation

 

They don't lack for that.  What is it that  made the other nations successful that the Philippines doesn't have?

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Majorsco

I agree with the strength of will not so sure if all need to have entrepreneurial spark as I see a lot make little businesses. I think one thing lacking is imagination, the ability to believe and imagine all things are possible. Any others?

Yes I agree about the lack of imagination. I disagree that doing a sari sari out the door or something small like that is what I was thinking of when I said entrepreneurial spark. I think when spark is bigger in that it takes the idea, implements the idea and builds a considerable business.

 

From what I see of the sari sari stores is they buy a handful of item, particularly cigarettes and alcohol and resell it with no intent to build a business. It's just to fill time and make a few pesos.

 

I think intent is the difference.

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Brucewayne

I agree with the strength of will not so sure if all need to have entrepreneurial spark as I see a lot make little businesses.  I think one thing lacking is imagination, the ability to believe and imagine all things are possible.  Any others?

 

They start a lot of businesses, but tend to "pirate" every one else's ideas.

They have good imaginations, but fear failure, therefore most will only copy someone who is already successful(even if only in their eyes) which only degrades the value of the goods or services being peddled and causing themselves and possibly others near them to fail.

If you have 10 customers and one sari sari, you might survive, but build 5 stores side by side with the same goods and all might fail, or at least all but the one with enough back up to weather out the lack of sales the longest.

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Many of the econ majors have to learn the law of supply and demand the hard way.

 

They sure don't need our 'chance'.
Opening our mind is only good for us.
I hung out with plenty of Ojibwe as a kid.
I paid one to show me how to fix my cars.  

Same kinda deal. We judged like mad.
Yet they accepted us, and slowly learned our games.   
They too asked that I mind my own business.
Later they paid me to work with them....
while minding my own business.
Their world is complicated enough.
Now those 'uncivilized' are beating us at lotto.  

 
They are highly skilled at survival and being happy.

Same here.  We judge like mad.
Natives smile as our house burns.  
They believe in antique concepts.
Like forgiveness, simple and being nice.  
Mockingly nickname us 'Utakfuny'.
Experts at forcing us to 'share'.
Makes us even crazier.
I've always felt safer with them.

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