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Bill H

Buying a boat in the Philippines and boat related stuff.....

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Bill H

Must be damn hot on a boat in the Visayas... 

Actually it's much cooler than you think.  If you rig some shade it isn't all that bad.  Particularly if you are anchored out where you get a breeze.  I lived aboard a boat in Houston for years and never had AC on the boat.  When it was really hot, I just wen out into Galveston Bay ad anchored off, it was quite pleasant and if you were more than 1/4 mile from shore, no mosquitoes!!

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Bill H

Bill, 

its interesting that you see no Fiberglass production hulls here?   

Why do you think that  is?      I know of several  Fiberglass  composite

"factories" that are idle due to seasonal orders.  I am wondering if

there would be a local  market for fiberglass boat production.     I am

wondering what it would take to start making  a first boat and if there

would be buyer ready to order.     it would be interesting to have your

insight. 

 

I'm aware of one operation in LapuLapu because we use the same supplier for

epoxy.  However, as a general rule I'm just not a glass boat guy.  If I

had my druthers I'd have a metal boat, Cupronickel would be ideal, but

you need very, very deep pockets to afford the materials.  Aluminum is

lighter than steel, but you have to pretty much double the scantlings,

so the weight advantage is not as great as you'd think.  Steel with

modern coatings is very hard to beat and what I will build in eventually

here.  The weight of a modern steel boat over 40' will not be much more

if any more than a well built glass boat and the materials cost much

less.

 

Most glass boats are production boats, meaning a mold is made and that mold

is used to produce hundreds even thousands of boats. It's why glass

boats are so popular, they lend themselves to mass production where

other materials do not.  However, with new CAD/CAM technology the

cutting of the parts in a metal boat can all be computerized so the boat

goes together quite easily.  Alignment marks can be etched into the

metal so assembly is relatively easy and thus the cost reduced.

 

The answer to your question is: of course, for the right price, we'd build

anything.  However the locals (in these parts any way) are very frugal,

and probably would not buy any ready made boat unless it cost less than

one they could build themselves.  Which of course would make any

fiberglass boat uncompetitive (in my view,) for the local market

anyway.  The international market is a whole different story.

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Bill H

Bill,

 

It seems like it would be a very good business opportunity to create safe harbors (anchorages) for cruisers modeled after the operation in Tambobo Bay at the south tip of Negros. All you need is a pier, a small restaurant, a small store (with food, casual clothing and boating supplies), and twenty to thirty secure, buoyed tie-ups and you have a business. An anchorage owner would also want to look at providing services like a bath and shower house, black water and grey water pumping and disposal, fresh water supply, and motorbike rental (to let people get to the nearest towns easily). A few small cottages (where cruisers can lodge overnight guests if they don't have room on their boats) might be good too, but I wouldn't go overboard (small pun). Of course, you also need a sheltered cove that doesn't already have a city or big town dominating it. However, there are a lot of sheltered coves around the philippines.

 

There are tens of thousands of "beach" resorts around the Philippines, but very few safe anchorages with services. I have to wonder why anybody would invest in a beach resort when there is so much competition there...and yet so little competition for safe anchorages  around the Philippines. Maybe it's the fact that most secluded coves usually have mangroves rather than white beaches, so nobody sees the potential. However, anybody who has snorkeled amongst mangroves knows that there is life everywhere. Groves of mangrove trees are the nurseries of the seas. Built properly, an anchorage facility like this wouldn't have to pose any threat to the mangroves or the nurseries in them. In fact, a pier (and even small buildings built over the water) using driven concrete pilings would actually provide even more habitat for sealife. Any thoughts on why more people haven't realized the opportunities there? Certainly, focused advertising would be fairly easy, since the boating community (cruisers) is fairly tight-knit and uses the internet heavily. Why haven't others thought of this and created a network of anchorages? Land around mangrove coves is generally very cheap, so it would be a lot more reasonable as an investment.

 

Also, have you looked at the possibility of either fiberglassing (laying up fiberglass and resin) the outside of plywood boats or creating fiberglass molds for hulls? Obviously, you get a smoother, more professional-looking finish and there is less labor involved (after the molds are built) if you are using female hull molds and laying up the layers up layers or resin and fiberglass inside the molds, but either method would be feasible for radically extending the boat's life expectancy. My uncle built a plywood and fiberglass boat over 60 years ago. He fiberglassed all interior and exterior surfaces (with no gaps) and sanded vigorously between each of several sprayed coats of gelcoat (a thin resin), and his boat is still in operation today. It just needs to be treated with rubbing compound and a few coats of car wax each year, and it still looks almost like new. My uncle is dead, but his boat was passed down to his son who still cares for it and uses it.

When I first moved here I tried to interest a local mayor in a marina project.  I was willing to fund the bulk of the project, I just wanted official permission to put in the marina.  I developed a formal proposal, showed how the operation would give local people well paid full time jobs and bring in more tourists dollars.  In the end, I get a big yawn, but they did offer to allow me to give them 40,000p to do a 5,000p job to get started.  So I dropped the idea.  It appears to me they just don't see any value to increased tourism of this type, and I can't imagine why.  People who own cruising boats are not poor and decent facility would be a magnet for yachties, but despite this I could not generate any interest.  Perhaps the problem was I did not offer to stuff the pockets of the mayor with pesos.  In any case, it was certainly an eye opening if not bewildering first time experience for me.

 

Of course you can cover plywood with fiberglass, and it does do an excellent job of deterring marine boring organisms, but it also adds a lot of weight and fiberglass mostly a petroleum related product, so it has become rather expensive.  Some designs are more weight sensitive than others.  Multihulls are always weight sensitive.  When you talk about foam and glass combinations they can be and are used to build boats, but they are also very expensive, even more so here due to the VAT and import duties.  Boats are made, but only for selected markets for these reasons.

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Bill H

Define black/grey water for us noobs please

Black water is sewage coming from the head in the boat.  Most boats today (outside the PH) are required to have holding tanks to collect the sewage until it can be pumped to a facility on shore or emptied overboard at sea.  There are several ways of dealing with black water on a boat, macerator pumps are one way, diaphragm pumps are another, electric processing units another.  However you move the sewage to the holding tank it stays there (in theory) until pumped overboard or off the boat.  The chemical addition mentioned earlier is not common in my experience.....at least not in cruising boats.

 

Gray water is water from the galley sink, wash basin in the head and shower water.  Rules for discharge of gray water vary considerably between locations.  Still in most modern boats, it is still pumped from the points of origin to a holding tank where it can then be discharged over board (usually by a pump) or into a processing facility on shore.  In most first world countries, there is a discharge facility at or near most fueling stations.  These are typically vacuum based systems that literally suck up the contents of the tanks, so the piping and hoses used have to be up to this task in order to work properly.  The volume of gray water produced on a typical cruising boat is significantly greater than the amount of black water, so most boats have two different systems.

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Bill H

I don't want a boat that has to be in the water (or left at the shore) all the time. It's too likely it will be stolen or stripped if you aren't there all the time. For that reason, when I do get a boat, I want a RIB (Rigid Inflatable Boat). About a 12-footer will probably do me...with twin 25 HP outboard motors (for redundancy) that I can trailer. I can use it for diving and fishing, and I can launch wherever there is a public ramp (including taking ferries to other islands and launching there). That will greatly increase effective range of where I can go with my boat. With a RIB, even if you ship water due to a big wave, you can bail it out and not worry about sinking. The inflatable part of the boat keeps the gunwales above water (even when the rigid hull is swamped, and the inflatable part is segmented, so even if one section is punctured, it won't cause the boat to sink. There is a guy who owns a resort up in Compostela who sells RIBs.

 

attachicon.gifRIB Boat.jpg

LOL except if you ever owned one, you would know how prone they are to leaking and how quickly they can rot in the sunlight.  Cruisers increasingly opt for rigid dingys made of aluminum and even wood.

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Bill H

A few years ago I was thinking about exporting small to medium size yacht boats to Europe from China. One of the more popular small to medium size yacht brands in Europe is Bayliner which is supposed to be an American brand, but all of their boats are assembled in Mexico. 

The prices I was quoted from some Chinese yacht manufacturers was ridicilous, less than 30,000$ for a 16m yacht without engine. I'm not sure if they also tax boats  in the Philippines same like they do cars, if not it might be something to look at.

 

IMAG004.JPG

 

oj3248.jpg

 

You've hit on a project that is near and dear to me, but you've missed the major obstacle to it.  Ocean freight is almost completely dominated by containers now.  If your product won't fit in a standard container you face huge shipping costs.  Only the smallest boats will fit into a container (even boats only 30' long are wider than 8' which is near the standard container width.  In my research I discovered that nearly all the boats being made in South Africa (a major boat production location) are moved to North America and Europe on their own bottoms!  I would think this would effectively render these boats used boats, but apparently not.  It's about a 60 day voyage, but they are marketed as new boats once they arrive.  Thus I think any production activity here would have to include moving the boats to North America and/or Europe on their own bottoms.  Crossing the Pacific is no small task and if the east coast or Europe was the destination, a Panama Canal transit would also have to be included.  Not an inexpensive undertaking to be sure.  I've looked at shipping as deck cargo, which the Taiwan boats used to be shipped as, but containers so dominate the ocean shipping business now deck cargo has become rarer and much more expensive.  It's something I'm working on though.

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samatm

You've hit on a project that is near and dear to me, but you've missed the major obstacle to it.  Ocean freight is almost completely dominated by containers now.  If your product won't fit in a standard container you face huge shipping costs.  Only the smallest boats will fit into a container (even boats only 30' long are wider than 8' which is near the standard container width.  In my research I discovered that nearly all the boats being made in South Africa (a major boat production location) are moved to North America and Europe on their own bottoms!  I would think this would effectively render these boats used boats, but apparently not.  It's about a 60 day voyage, but they are marketed as new boats once they arrive.  Thus I think any production activity here would have to include moving the boats to North America and/or Europe on their own bottoms.  Crossing the Pacific is no small task and if the east coast or Europe was the destination, a Panama Canal transit would also have to be included.  Not an inexpensive undertaking to be sure.  I've looked at shipping as deck cargo, which the Taiwan boats used to be shipped as, but containers so dominate the ocean shipping business now deck cargo has become rarer and much more expensive.  It's something I'm working on though.

Interesting.  never thought of that before.   Are they ever towed saving the boats engine from hours of operation?

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tomaw

A few years ago I was thinking about exporting small to medium size yacht boats to Europe from China. One of the more popular small to medium size yacht brands in Europe is Bayliner which is supposed to be an American brand, but all of their boats are assembled in Mexicot.

The prices I was quoted from some Chinese yacht manufacturers was ridicilous, less than 30,000$ for a 16m yacht without engine. I'm not sure if they also tax boats in the Philippines same like they do cars, if not it might be something to look at.

 

IMAG004.JPG

 

oj3248.jpg

.......... WOW !!!!That's $30,000?! I'd rather have that than a car for about the same price! Or a condo for that matter. Who says foreigners can't own real estate?! LOL !!! Edited by tomaw

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Stone

Without the engine and most of the interior though.

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tomaw

 

Without the engine and most of the interior though.

INmsure the engine ain't cheap. Do they make sailing yachts?

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Stone

INmsure the engine ain't cheap. Do they make sailing yachts?

 

China makes everything. But I was looking for the body only, it will probably cost 3 times more to get it fully finished, depends on you though.

Edited by Stone

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