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Why No US Airlines to/from Manila?


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miles-high

a little thing called SERVICE to the Customer

 

Hmmm, so for safety and service, I would take Hawaiian Airlines anytime... hehe ;)

 

Overnight in HNL and sample the real steak (http://shorebirdwaikiki.com/) before you fly on to your destination... (It's probably better than any airline food...) :D

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life is so unfair. Just because there are millions of girls somewhere willing to drop their pants to guys half a century older than them for a few dollars isn't enough on its own to guarantee a plenti

Why would anyone want to fly a US airline? I prefer to spend my 18 hours with friendly air hostesses not over the hill wanna-be air marshalls with a chip on their shoulder.

As I mentioned earlier, the airline economists/accountants must calculate the cost of direct flights to and from the US. Technically, it is feasible as PAL does it but here’s the numbers: SEA to MNL

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Monsoon

Hmmm, so for safety and service, I would take Hawaiian Airlines anytime... hehe ;)

 

Overnight in HNL and sample the real steak (http://shorebirdwaikiki.com/) before you fly on to your destination... (It's probably better than any airline food...) :D

 

I agree, going to the states via HNL is a nice stop to break things up. I didn't do an overnight, I only had short layovers. Next time I am going to stay a few days though. HNL airport is nice as far as US airports go. I like being able to go 'outside' without leaving the airport, and even the TSA seems friendly there. I think people who live in Hawaii are happier in general.

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Contango

3 direct flights from Australia, Jetstar - Darwin > Manila, PAL - Mel/Syd > Manila, Qantas - Mel/Syd > Manila...There maybe others from Perth and or Brisbane? Personally im done with PAL and their 25 year old aircraft.

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SkyMan

 

The lady behind the ticket counter was decent enough in quoting fares. It was when I commented that I thought I would wait until I got to the states to purchase a ticket that I got the TERSE reply that I WAS in the United States.

I'd have just laughed and said, Oh, ok, I'll just rent a car and drive to Omaha then?

 

I was stationed there in the early 80s and considered it a third world country then, probably still is.

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Headshot

I'd have just laughed and said, Oh, ok, I'll just rent a car and drive to Omaha then?

 

I was stationed there in the early 80s and considered it a third world country then, probably still is.

 

Hmmm...a VERY expensive third-world country if that's the case.  :cool:

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senseless

If there were a strong enough market demand I'm sure there would be.  As it stands, Delta flies to Japan or wherever and then Manila but it's an old plane on its last legs. You would think a direct route could be a money maker but the airlines don't see it that way.  And truthfully, I have no idea really how airlines make decisions.  For instance, my first trip here I lived closest to Cincinnati, a Delta hub.  Did I fly out of Cinci?  No, because I found if I drive to Indy's airport which wasn't much farther, I saved almost $200 on the r/t.  Where did the flight from Indy go?  Cinci.  And from there it was the exact same itinerary to Manila and back as I would have taken from Cinci for $200 more. 

 

Also, a one way on Delta costs almost the same as a r/t.  Why?  I much prefer an airline like KAL that charges the per leg price.

 

 

Cincinnati is probably not a good comparison to anywhere due to the delta monopoly. Drive 1 hour south to lexington and get tickets at -100-200$ in price on the same carrier (delta).

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samatm

You would think that with the huge numbers of  Pinoys living on West Coast  US there would  be 1 or 2  direct flights a DAY  from either   SFO , LAX or SEA

I believe the grossly stupid  taxation on Foreign carrieres serving  The Philippines is a reason the only way to get  from the Mainland US to  MNL is via intermediary country.    BTW there are no direct flights to Europe either ?

 

If the PI wakes up and gets their  Shite together .. drops taxes and complies to Intl safety codes you would see  Direct flights from both the EU and  USA and   50% more tourist coming spending big bucks and spurring investment.     Roads and Airports build  economies. (but you gotta have planes landing ) 

 

Speaking of NAIA.   I came into Naia recently from Taipei (no direct flights to Cebu grrrr)   and because T1 was SO very empty  , everything was a breeze... immi, baggage carousel, customs, transfer to T2 via the shuttle.    It got  me to  wondering why in the world Was the intl carriers terminal so Empty.... no Flights !!

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samatm

Oh and i just saw this news from last week:   Looks like Pnoy is listining:

 

Sunsstar:  Mar 9:

 

MANILA, Philippines - Malacanañg hopes to boost the number of tourist arrivals in the country with the signing of a law rationalizing the taxes being paid by international carriers.

Republic Act No. 10378, otherwise known as the Common Carrier’s Tax (CCT) Act, exempts foreign carriers – both air and sea – from paying the three percent CCT.

Carriers will also be exempted from VAT (value added tax) for the transport of passengers.

Deputy presidential spokesperson Abigail Valte said the signing of the law was in addition to the travel and tourism competitiveness report of the World Economic Forum putting the Philippines at rank 82, up from 94.

The International Civil Aviation Organization’s (ICAO) also lifted significant safety concerns in the Philippine commercial aviation industry.

Valte said the CCT collected from international carriers comprised less than one percent of the budget, which would be insignificant compared to multiplier effect of a vibrant tourism industry.

explained that by foregoing some revenues, international carriers would be encouraged to fly to the country and bring in more tourists.

The administration sees tourism as one sector that can provide livelihood and jobs to people as it does in other countries.

The Philippine Travel Agencies Association welcomed the signing of the law, according to reports, as it will be good for their industry.

Valte said the Civil Aviation Authority of the Philippines was continuously working with the US Federal Aviation Authority and the European Union so local airlines could fly to more destinations in the United States and Europe.

She noted that the infrastructure needed to help tourism is also a priority of the administration.

She said the Department of Transportation and Communication (DOTC) continues to rehabilitate old airports as well as construct new airports.

The Aquino administration targets 10 million foreign tourist arrivals by 2016. Last year, the Department of Tourism launched the “It’s More Fun in the Philippines” campaign to attract more tourists to come to the country.

 

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smokey

Why would anyone want to fly a US airline? I prefer to spend my 18 hours with friendly air hostesses not over the hill wanna-be air marshalls with a chip on their shoulder.

well your correct there but the reason is they Fire all the women who reach the old age of 35 in many countries ,,, called no job protection 

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CardiacKid

Foreign airlines pressured the Philippine government to eliminate the taxes they were forced to pay for flights from this country. Delta threatened to eliminate the Manila stop altogether. PAL was never required to pay the taxes and thus was in a much better position to make a profit. European airlines also refused to pay and just dropped their service altogether. With the Cat 2 rating, PAL could not add any additional flights so passenger capacity was stagnated. It was simply another case of protectionism and short sighted taxation policies. 

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You would think that with the huge numbers of  Pinoys living on West Coast  US there would  be 1 or 2  direct flights a DAY  from either   SFO , LAX or SEA

I believe the grossly stupid  taxation on Foreign carrieres serving  The Philippines is a reason the only way to get  from the Mainland US to  MNL is via intermediary country.    BTW there are no direct flights to Europe either ?

 

If the PI wakes up and gets their  Shite together .. drops taxes and complies to Intl safety codes you would see  Direct flights from both the EU and  USA and   50% more tourist coming spending big bucks and spurring investment.     Roads and Airports build  economies. (but you gotta have planes landing ) 

 

Speaking of NAIA.   I came into Naia recently from Taipei (no direct flights to Cebu grrrr)   and because T1 was SO very empty  , everything was a breeze... immi, baggage carousel, customs, transfer to T2 via the shuttle.    It got  me to  wondering why in the world Was the intl carriers terminal so Empty.... no Flights !!

all philippines are still banned from europe i think.  so it wont be pal thatt does it

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miles-high

 

The Aquino administration targets 10 million foreign tourist arrivals by 2016. Last year, the Department of Tourism launched the “It’s More Fun in the Philippines” campaign to attract more tourists to come to the country.

 

As I mentioned earlier, the airline economists/accountants must calculate the cost of direct flights to and from the US. Technically, it is feasible as PAL does it but here’s the numbers:


SEA to MNL 6,661 nautical miles, SFO to MNL 6,987 nm and LAX to MNL 7,305 nm. These are the great circle distance so you would need to add a few hundred miles, if not more, to fly “air routes”.


FAA says you need to fly to your destination and go to the alternate airport (usually Clark) then hold for 45 min (or 30 min) plus 10%. It’s more complicated than this and there are some “legal maneuvers” to cope with these requirements. In addition, you would need to consider the seasonal “Boeing 85% winds” which shows probability of winds aloft to calculate headwind/tailwind components into their flight plan – I do not know this particular segment but typically it is headwind (i.e., need more fuel and that's why PAL lands at Guam to refuel) on these westbound flights. Then, crew duty time consideration, it’s more stringent with FAA/JAA and therefore more expensive.


Considering the typical range of a 747-400 is 7,260 nm, 747-400ER 7,670 nm and 747-8 8,000 nm, you will see these airplanes are quickly running out of, well, fuel… ;) Airbus 380 has the same range as 747-8 but sells about US$100 million more at US350 million (carry more revenue passengers though).


Then there is the issue of the foreign airline tax but that is just one part to this equation.


Annual visitors to the Philippines are about 4 million (typically #1 Korea, #2 US, #3 Japan #4 Australia, #5 Taiwan), while the Hawaiian Islands get 7 million and a tiny island of Guam has about 1.3 million annual visitors…


I do not see many “family” vacationers in the Philippines… My vacation plans do not include any Philippine destination; I would rather go to Lanai, Hawaii, Tahiti, Gold Coast, etc. :)


US airlines have not bought any 747-8's or A380's and my guess is that they probably want to use their existing 747’s to other Asian destinations (business travelers pay more)…

 

:wheel:



 

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samatm

As I mentioned earlier, the airline economists/accountants must calculate the cost of direct flights to and from the US. Technically, it is feasible as PAL does it but here’s the numbers:

 

SEA to MNL 6,661 nautical miles, SFO to MNL 6,987 nm and LAX to MNL 7,305 nm. These are the great circle distance so you would need to add a few hundred miles, if not more, to fly “air routes”.

 

FAA says you need to fly to your destination and go to the alternate airport (usually Clark) then hold for 45 min (or 30 min) plus 10%. It’s more complicated than this and there are some “legal maneuvers” to cope with these requirements. In addition, you would need to consider the seasonal “Boeing 85% winds” which shows probability of winds aloft to calculate headwind/tailwind components into their flight plan – I do not know this particular segment but typically it is headwind (i.e., need more fuel and that's why PAL lands at Guam to refuel) on these westbound flights. Then, crew duty time consideration, it’s more stringent with FAA/JAA and therefore more expensive.

 

Considering the typical range of a 747-400 is 7,260 nm, 747-400ER 7,670 nm and 747-8 8,000 nm, you will see these airplanes are quickly running out of, well, fuel… ;) Airbus 380 has the same range as 747-8 but sells about US$100 million more at US350 million (carry more revenue passengers though).

 

Then there is the issue of the foreign airline tax but that is just one part to this equation.

 

Annual visitors to the Philippines are about 4 million (typically #1 Korea, #2 US, #3 Japan #4 Australia, #5 Taiwan), while the Hawaiian Islands get 7 million and a tiny island of Guam has about 1.3 million annual visitors…

 

I do not see many “family” vacationers in the Philippines… My vacation plans do not include any Philippine destination; I would rather go to Lanai, Hawaii, Tahiti, Gold Coast, etc. :)

 

US airlines have not bought any 747-8's or A380's and my guess is that they probably want to use their existing 747’s to other Asian destinations (business travelers pay more)…

 

:wheel:

 

 

 

 

 

Good analysis - There are a lot of calculations that go into making a profitable run. vs what passengers are willing to spend.    I havn't done the numbers but I believe thats why the  777 is such a popular aircraft.     here is a link to a story  the worlds longest flights:

 

http://travel.usnews.com/features/Worlds_Longest_Flights/

 

Also here is a link to story about Singapore airlines cancelling its Worlds longest flight  NJ to singapore and LaX  Singapore because the

 

 

Gas guzzling A340 couldn't  make a profit on those routes:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2222956/Worlds-longest-commercial-non-stop-flights--Singapore-U-S--cancelled.html

Edited by samatm
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SkyMan

Hmmm...a VERY expensive third-world country if that's the case.  :cool:

Yes, but it's all about the culture.

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udonthani

Yes, but it's all about the culture.

indeed it is. There are classical string quartets at every corner, in the Phlippines.

 

composed mostly and unusually, by girls.

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