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MBCA Hannah Glitz Building Progress


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Cannonball

Has anybody ever thought about building REAL outriggers (with minimum drag) for a banka...rather than just using lengths of bamboo which have a lot of drag and not tht much buoyancy? It would probably do a lot for speed and stability. It would seem that anybody capable of building a boat could also build some sturdy outriggers. If they were filled with foam and totally enclosed, it seems they would do a lot...not just for speed and stability...but also overall safety.

Yes Headshot I will eventually add two real Amas but in the meantime the Bamboo is pretty much unsinkable, the reason is I can get more bouyancy out of a hull than an equivelant amount of Bamboo to give the same bouyancy... It also gives me the option to add two more engines, props and rudders if I so decide at a later date. I believe the hull will be lighter than the bamboo as well...Eventaully I will have 200% bouancy on each side of the main hull... However I am not a rich man and don't believe in doing things on credit, in my case a little at a time until I achieve the end result and don't owe anybody any money when I'm done. 

The other problem I'm faced with (for now) is there is no longer any good plywood available in the Philippines, (logging ban) and I won't take a chance on Chinese plywood and go to the expense of importing it... I will hold off on that until I find somebody who is importing chinese Marine plywood and I can buy a couple of pieces to do a proper boil test on it... I have thus far spared no cost to create a safe and seaworthy boat... I have purchased the best wood available, used marine epoxy (over 40 gallons) and over 100 kilos of bronze nails, plus all the main structural points were further backed up with Monel Bolts and nuts, and the bolts through the hull are sealed and secured with roofing cement... All the paint has been mixed with Marine epoxy and squeegeed on and into the wood as far as it is possible to penetrate... It has Mahogany wear strips (those are also bolted through the keel reinforcing blocks) along the bottom to protect the plastic barrels (to keep the marine borers under control) covering the keel log and to protect the keel cooling if she gets beached. Thank you for your question, and I hope this information helps another member if they decide to build a boat.

Edited by Braun Reunhold
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Ok the engine and reduction gear are mounted in the engine room by the grace of GOD and the help of a long handled spoon LOL... it's going to require a serious duct system to bring in enough fresh air

It's coming together slowly still allot of work left to do Bill.

MBCA stands for Motor Banca... Hannah Glitz is my oldest Daughter so I named it after her. Eventually I would like to build four more to name after the rest of my Daughters, time will tell on that one

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Headshot

I understand the money thing. I'm adding onto my house the same way. From what I have read, the reason why Filipino bankas are no good in heavy seas is that the bamboo outriggers tend to dig in if they hit a large wave. Then, if there is enough momentum, it can flip the boat. The main hull on a typical banka is inherently unstable due to its configuration (top heavy and length-to-width ratio). That is why, for the most part, bankas are used in coastal waters only, so they can flee to safe harbor if a storm comes up. Many bankas go down every year when they are caught in storms.

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Cannonball

I understand the money thing. I'm adding onto my house the same way. From what I have read, the reason why Filipino bankas are no good in heavy seas is that the bamboo outriggers tend to dig in if they hit a large wave. Then, if there is enough momentum, it can flip the boat. The main hull on a typical is inherently unstable due to its configuration (top heavy and length-to-width ratio). That is why, for the most part, bankas are used in coastal waters only, so they can flee to safe harbor if a storm comes up. Many bankas go down every year when they are caught in storms.

 

Well yes there are allot of problems with traditionally locally built Bankas: 1. They tend to build them on the cheap using the cheapest material and little if any epoxy or even glue for that matter. 2. They seldom use bronze nails. 3. They seal them with waterbased house paint, and in some cases not at all. 4 They do almost no preventive maintenance. 5. They don't usually poison the keel and the Marine borers eat it up in 1 year, and turn it to junk in three. 6. They still put to sea in a weakened boat. 7. They usually overload their boats because they are greedy. 8. They for the most part don't even carry life jackets / vests. 8. Their boats are open (begging to take on water) and there is no added floatation in the bow, stern or anywhere else for that matter. 9. Most of them can't swim a lick and thus drown. This list could go on longer but thats the highlights.

I have taken all this into concideration when when I embarked on this mission and have done my best to insure that my boat will be as close to unsinkable as it's humanly possible to create. My hull will be water tight when completed, it will have added floatation blockes installed above the waterline, and in the deflector that runs from the bow almost all the way aft. It will also be compartmented off, plus a crash bulkhead... I will be adding emergency floatation to the Akas, and my reasoning is it's much easier to find a 100 foot boat drifting around than one or several life rafts. I have been to sea and experienced some very large storms so I have a first hand respect for the sea and her power... I have tried my level best to create the safest Banka in the water... I ordered a Trimaran originally but was delivered a banka that would have sunk in the first big wave she took... Trust me this will be a safe Boat even if Bankas have gotten a bad reputation, but thats mostly due to the factors I mentioned in the biginning of this reply. And lastly I will not operate in bad weather, but if some blows up unexpectedly she should ride it out ok with a good skipper.    

Edited by Braun Reunhold
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Mr. Mike

Braun, I may have missed it in an earlier post, but where did you learn to design and build a large boat?  I can imagine the sense of pride you must have!

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Dolsos

When its done any chance for a LinC  get together-inauguration cruise/bbq?

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Cannonball

Braun, I may have missed it in an earlier post, but where did you learn to design and build a large boat?  I can imagine the sense of pride you must have!

 

We as human beings / spiritual beings, are all capable of designing and building anything we can visualize, we are only limited by our imagination and our will to succeed. I first started repairing things when I was a boy, then went on to modifying them because I had stumbled onto or discovered a way to make them more efficient. Then got into designing and building things for other people from their ideas or needs. I have also really been blessed to have my own ideas grow from the thought process into reality. I am a fortunate man to have been born with this ability and to have been raised by a Grandfather and Great Grandfather that encouraged it, and taught me how to build wheels and tools in a forge, and a foster Dad who taught me all of his trades (including the love of building boats) After I had spent a few years learning and becoming proficient at different trades I was able to end up with my own welding / fabrication / machine shops off and on over the years. I was lucky enough to have the freedom to think outside the box most of my life. I spent 16 years in the circus and during that time caught a trapeze act and was a Human Cannonball, I also designed and built my own riggings to for other performers. I designed and built my own cannon and shot myself out of it. Everyday I live I try to learn something new and truely believe nothing is impossible, if it is it just takes a little longer to accomplish. I apologize for the philosophical answer but couldn't think of another way to answer your question... I'm not an engineer, I'm a tinkerite, I dropped out of school after the 8th grade, then went to college after I got out of the Navy... I discovered the professors were in the business of telling me things were impossible, and doing their best to lobotomize me and there was no return on the investment, so I quite... There have been times I wished I had stayed in school but would have just ended up in the corporate world, and been owned by the company store. The totally unacceptable aspect for me was anything I created for up to five years after I left most big companies belonged to them. So for me I think I made the right decision, that is not to detract from someone who did finish college and ended up with a carreer, I admire and congratulate them for following their dream and turning it into reality, and I'm encouraging my kids in that direction. Old Man Zaccini (Human Cannon Ball) summed it up the best for me... He use to tell me "keeed yous gotta do what yous gotta do and dat eesss" (he taught me how to weld aluminum with an Oxy / Accetylene torch). If I have the equipment to work with there isn't anything I can't repair, build or create. Once again I apologize for my boring answer and thank you for bearing wth it. And Crap I went of topic in my own thread you just can't find good help anymore.

Edited by Braun Reunhold
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Cannonball

When its done any chance for a LinC  get together-inauguration cruise/bbq?

 

I'm toying with the thought it will depend on how things proceed, but it would be fun and an excellent way at least some of us to get aquainted. I will let everybody know if that day looks like it can / will happen, and how many people the boat will accomodate confortably.

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Mr. Mike

We as human beings / spiritual beings, are all capable of designing and building anything we can visualize, we are only limited by our imagination and our will to succeed. I first started repairing things when I was a boy, then went on to modifying them because I had stumbled onto or discovered a way to make them more efficient. Then got into designing and building things for other people from their ideas or needs. I have also really been blessed to have my own ideas grow from the thought process into reality. I am a fortunate man to have been born with this ability and to have been raised by a Grandfather and Great Grandfather that encouraged it, and taught me how to build wheels and tools in a forge, and a foster Dad who taught me all of his trades (including the love of building boats) After I had spent a few years learning and becoming proficient at different trades I was able to end up with my own welding / fabrication / machine shops off and on over the years. I was lucky enough to have the freedom to think outside the box most of my life. I spent 16 years in the circus and during that time caught a trapeze act and was a Human Cannonball, I also designed and built my own riggings to for other performers. I designed and built my own cannon and shot myself out of it. Everyday I live I try to learn something new and truely believe nothing is impossible, if it is it just takes a little longer to accomplish. I apologize for the philosophical answer but couldn't think of another way to answer your question... I'm not an engineer, I'm a tinkerite, I dropped out of school after the 8th grade, then went to college after I got out of the Navy... I discovered the professors were in the business of telling me things were impossible, and doing their best to lobotomize me and there was no return on the investment, so I quite... There have been times I wished I had stayed in school but would have just ended up in the corporate world, and been owned by the company store. The totally unacceptable aspect for me was anything I created for up to five years after I left most big companies belonged to them. So for me I think I made the right decision, that is not to detract from someone who did finish college and ended up with a carreer, I admire and congratulate them for following their dream and turning it into reality, and I'm encouraging my kids in that direction. Old Man Zaccini (Human Cannon Ball) summed it up the best for me... He use to tell me "keeed yous gotta do what yous gotta do and dat eesss" (he taught me how to weld aluminum with an Oxy / Accetylene torch). If I have the equipment to work with there isn't anything I can't repair, build or create. Once again I apologize for my boring answer and thank you for bearing wth it. And Crap I went of topic in my own thread you just can't find good help anymore.

Damn man, what a great answer and quite unexpected! Thank you.

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Headshot

I went of topic in my own thread you just can't find good help anymore.

 

I don't think you went off topic. You just gave us some background information on how you came to build this boat. It sounds like you've been building up to this your whole life. Thanks for the story. You've led a fairly full life already. It will likely only get better from here.

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Cannonball

Well Guys I finally had a ford lightbulb go off in my head: I have been wracking my brain about emergency flotation, and decided to use 60,000 liters of empty sealed plastic bottles in all my voids. That will provide 59,940 kilos of added bouyancy for emergency floatation minus the weight of the plastic bottles and for the system to fail you will have to hole a great majority of them, plus it will help clean up the environment.

The waterline is between number 1 &2 Long, loaded completely down it should be right at or just above Long number 2... I will begin at number 2 going up, and accross the top of the overhead stem to stern, and in the deflector from bow all the way aft... I will glue or epoxy them in place to keep them from vibrating and getting holes worn in them... then I will protect the ones inside the holds with plywood so they don't get damaged, while loading freight or what ever. The over head I will stretch fish netting tight and staple it inplace (incase any of the glue decides to let go). In my small voids I will use 500ml, and the bigger ones I will use 1 liter or possibly 2 liter plactic bottles. It is also easier to get water behind plastic bottles verses foam blocks in the unlikely event of a fire, I'm excited... this will work. I'm happy I finally figured a way around the foam. I'll let you know how it works out and will post pictures of the installation.  

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Edited by Braun Reunhold
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Headshot

The Coast Guard had a booth set up in the SM Consolacion Mall a couple of weeks ago where they were showing off a life raft that was made with fishing net and plastic 2 liter coke bottles. Maybe instead of gluing the bottles down (which might damage the bottles), you could just kind of construct a net bag (like a long tube) that would hold the bottles inside. Then, you can just secure the ends of the bag, and the contents shouldn't go anywhere. As long as the bottles aren't exposed to sunlight much, they will probably last for many years.

 

Ummm...how are you going to come up with 60,000empty coke bottles?

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Cannonball

The Coast Guard had a booth set up in the SM Consolacion Mall a couple of weeks ago where they were showing off a life raft that was made with fishing net and plastic 2 liter coke bottles. Maybe instead of gluing the bottles down (which might damage the bottles), you could just kind of construct a net bag (like a long tube) that would hold the bottles inside. Then, you can just secure the ends of the bag, and the contents shouldn't go anywhere. As long as the bottles aren't exposed to sunlight much, they will probably last for many years.

 

Ummm...how are you going to come up with 60,000empty coke bottles?

start paying kids to collect them shouldn't take too long it's summertime right now I thought I would pay them one peso for 4 500ml; one peso for 2 one liter but they have to be clean (rinsed out) with no holes, crushed, or missing tops got a meeting to go to I'll be back later

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Dolsos

start paying kids to collect them shouldn't take too long it's summertime right now I thought I would pay them one peso for 4 500ml; one peso for 2 one liter but they have to be clean (rinsed out) with no holes, crushed, or missing tops got a meeting to go to I'll be back later

 

Man you should have thought of this sooner, we had bags and bags of empty 2liter and 1.5liter bottles we just got rid of.  I can start saving them again if you'd like, we're up in Liloan though so probably not worth making a trip up here for them.

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Mr. Mike

Well Guys I finally had a ford lightbulb go off in my head: I have been wracking my brain about emergency flotation, and decided to use 60,000 liters of empty sealed plastic bottles in all my voids. That will provide 59,940 kilos of added bouyancy for emergency floatation minus the weight of the plastic bottles and for the system to fail you will have to hole a great majority of them, plus it will help clean up the environment.

The waterline is between number 1 &2 Long, loaded completely down it should be right at or just above Long number 2... I will begin at number 2 going up, and accross the top of the overhead stem to stern, and in the deflector from bow all the way aft... I will glue or epoxy them in place to keep them from vibrating and getting holes worn in them... then I will protect the ones inside the holds with plywood so they don't get damaged, while loading freight or what ever. The over head I will stretch fish netting tight and staple it inplace (incase any of the glue decides to let go). In my small voids I will use 500ml, and the bigger ones I will use 1 liter or possibly 2 liter plactic bottles. It is also easier to get water behind plastic bottles verses foam blocks in the unlikely event of a fire, I'm excited... this will work. I'm happy I finally figured a way around the foam. I'll let you know how it works out and will post pictures of the installation.  

With all of the work/$$ you have put into this boat,,,,,,,,,,,,,why not compartmentalize (not an original idea) and seal the voids into sections? Maybe 5 to 7 sealed compartments. If you chose to place sealed plastic bottles within those sealed compartments,,,,,good idea. Maybe I misunderstood you.

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Cannonball

With all of the work/$$ you have put into this boat,,,,,,,,,,,,,why not compartmentalize (not an original idea) and seal the voids into sections? Maybe 5 to 7 sealed compartments. If you chose to place sealed plastic bottles within those sealed compartments,,,,,good idea. Maybe I misunderstood you.

 

The compartmented voids are fine except by adding the bottles to them it won't matter if one ever gets compromised, because the bottles are individuals and it would be unlikely that they all got damaged. Thats my theory anyway for what ever it's worth. I will fill the deflector full of empties and see how many I get in there and will know how much added bouancy we created there... I also sent instructions to configure them exactly the same on each side... The inside of the hull I can do at my leisure and as we find bottles, and just keep plugging away until it's completed...

I have a couple of new Pic's today I'll add here too, I have some of my ladies on the boat but don't want to put them up on the open forums because you never know who is looking at these pages. I will post one of Mom but not the kids, maybe I worry too much but I'm old school.

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