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Mr.T

Visayan Languages

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udonthani

my friend has a sideline with advising job hunting graduates on interview techinques. She says to them, whatever you do don't try to impress the interviewers by speaking in English, as is sometimes advised in some of the magazines, UNLESS you have a really high standard. For most jobs, the interviewers will be satisfied that you have the required English skill that they need, which in most jobs is not a lot, from what is on your resume. You won't have to do a special English exam in hardly any jobs. She says, speak in Filipino, doesn't matter what dialect it is, depends on where it is of course, in Manila it will almost certainly be Tagalog, but it might be Tagalog somewhere else as well. AS should hardly surprise anybody, you, the interviewee, will be more comfortable, as will the interviewers, if you speak your native, if maybe not local tongue, than a truly foreign language, like English.

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Mang Kanor

honestly not kidding - I've met a number of families who encourage the children, to speak Tagalog in the house, or at least around the dinner table, some wealthier ones, even English, at least when the children are older, this happens in Malaysia too, where the Malay language performs a similar role that Tagalog does in the Philippines. I've also met other foreigners, who have come across this too. It's definitely not that unusual. The Philippines is a multi-lingual country. Even uneducated people can often speak three languages or even more.

 

 

 

this is just not true. Marginally more people speak Tagalog than Cebuano as a first language, but not much more. But the number of people who can speak Tagalog as either a first, a second or a third language is astronomical. It's about 95% of Filipinos.

 

 

 

total rubbish. Just as many people speak Ilongo in like Negros Occidental and southern Panay as speak Cebuano and many people on Mindanao also speak it. Waray speakers are primarily on Leyte and Samar. Though more Leyte people speak Cebuano than Waray as a first language, many speak both and just about all of them also speak Tagalog as well.

 

here's an example of somebody I know, she was born, in Manila to two parents one of whom was from Dalaguete, in Cebu and the other one Masbate. When she was just a baby, the family relocated to Masbate to live. I've been texting her about it all day and this is her story.

 

born in Manila, raised in Masbate and lived there until she graduated from high school age 15 at which point like many like her, she moved to Manila to go to university.

 

until aged 15 she spoke in the local Masbate dialect 95% of the time, but also learned English and Tagalog at school, though she didn't speak them often, she says English probably more than Tagalog, 3% against 2%.

 

as soon as she got to Manila, obviously everything changes. Suddenly she speaks Tagalog 95% of the time, local dialect 4% of the time and English 1%. This is somebody who works as a lawyer too, and is currently a prosecutor, who you might think would speak English a lot, but in actual fact doesn't. English is a language of the law in the Philippines mostly in written form.

 

somebody said that English is more important a language in the Philippines, than Tagalog. This is bull. Hardly anybody speaks it daily. There's a tiny elite that speaks English as something of an affectation, there are people like my friend who speaks English most days, but only in court, not anywhere else, the not all that many people who work in call centers, some but not all people who work in tourism, and people who are married to foreigners. Add these up, and it's not all that many people.

 

at work in court, English is spoken but not exclusively. In all her hundreds of courtroom sessions in Manila, she has never seen a judge that did not speak Tagalog at some point in the session. Sometimes she goes to Cebu to do a trial there. Tagalog is spoken in courts there too, but Cebuano is spoken as well, unlike in Manila, where Cebuano is never spoken. Why? 95% plus of Filipinos speak Tagalog anyway. I often ask Filipinos to rate their language skills with marks out of 10 for each language and I've never come across even one, that marked themselves less than 8 with Tagalog, and most, even the ones with limited education, say 10. They nearly all believe they speak it as well or almost as well, as their local dialect. With English, it's surprising accurately they know how good or bad their English is, and the average mark they give themselves is 5 to 7. People like the lawyer have a high English score. She gives herself 9. Good, but not as good as Cebuano or Tagalog, where she gives herself 10.

 

obviously she lives in manila thats why she speaks tagalog most of the time... why not try going to different parts of the philippines ie cebu and see if you can hear them speaks tagalog on a daily basis... also those parents who encourage their children to speak tagalog, more or less one of the parents speaks the language (tagalog) as its first language. people from all over the philippines who come to manila for work or leisure will surely speaks tagalog but if they meet someone who are of the same province as they are definitely they'll speak in their native tongues. obviously when your friend came to cebu for some sessions, people there need to speak tagalog so as she can understand what they were saying. lets just put it like this... you and your gf and her friends are in the restaurant, and lets say they speak cebuano... do you think they will speak english all the time? NO, they only speaks english because they need to... same with your friend who came to cebu, they speak tagalog in front of her because they need and ill bet its not 100% at all times.

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udonthani

they weren't stupid setting up Tagalog as the Filipino lingua franca when they established the Filipino state. They knew it was a necessity, not some kind of indulgence, or cultural imperialism of some sort. It wasn't like that, at all. Wherever they came from, they knew that Metro Manila was going to dominate the economic fate of the archipelago, and that there was no way round this.They might have been able to make it less centralized, but they couldn't possibly have made it much less centralized than it has become. Malaysia faced the same issues, and basically had to do the same thing, as the Philippines. They realised that what with all the dialects, they had to have a standardised lingua franca, Malay, only Kuala Lumpur doesn't dominate the state of Malaysia economically anything like what Metro Manila does the Philippines. In that respect, Malaysia is that touch luckier, than the Philippines.

 

if all you ever do in the Philippines is hang out in the province, which is what Cebu, even metro Cebu is, then you have a very one sided view of Manila. You meet Visayans that earlier on in their life, went to Manila, tried it for a while, didn't like it, went back to the sticks where you are, and especially if you are asking them leading questions to bolster up your own predjudices which a lot of kanos do, you will draw the wrong conclusion. For every one Visayan you meet in Cebu or Bohol, that tried it in Manila, didn't like it, and came back to hicksville, there's another two or three that went, and never returned.

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udonthani

same with your friend who came to cebu, they speak tagalog in front of her because they need and ill bet its not 100% at all times.

 

 

obviously you missed the part about her dad being from Dalaguete. She's a Cebuana, even though she was born in Manila and grew up in Masbate and spoke their dialect when young. She speaks Tagalog for convenience, as and when necessary even though it is definitely not her first language and like English, she hardly spoke it at all apart from in school when she was growing up. It only became useful to her later on, not only when she was in Manila, but whenever she needed to communicate with other Filipinos, not only anywhere in the Philippines, but anywhere in the world.

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Mr.T

Metro Cebu (Cebu City) is the second Metropolitan area in the Philippines after Manila, theres no other competitor.

 

Cebu City is not considered the province. That's what Whippy calls it.

Edited by Mr.T

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Mang Kanor

Metro Cebu (Cebu City) is the second Metropolitan area in the Philippines after Manila, theres no other competitor.

 

Cebu City is not considered the province. That's what Whippy calls it.

 

tagalogs or manilenos as what they called people in manila considers Cebu a province. anything that is outside manila is a province to them.

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Skywalker
For every one Visayan you meet in Cebu or Bohol, that tried it in Manila, didn't like it, and came back to hicksville, there's another two or three that went, and never returned.

 

You do seem to harbour a particular venom towards Cebu people, calling this beautiful island 'hicksville' and generally denigrating the local population if not the whole province.

 

It is very difficult to have a balanced exchange with such a bigoted mindset.

 

As far as the 'official' languages are concerned the 1935 constitution designated English and Spanish as the official languages of the RP. However the national Language Institute designated Tagalog as the 'National Language'. This contradicted the first constitution of 1897 which had named Tagalog as the official language of the Philippines.

 

There has been some argument about whether 'Pilipino' or 'Filipino' is the correct designation, but as far as I have been able to research they are both Tagalog.

 

The 1987 constitution names Filipino as the national language.

 

Tagalog does appear to have been decided upon as a lingua franca.

Edited by Skywalker

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Mang Kanor

tif all you ever do in the Philippines is hang out in the province, which is what Cebu, even metro Cebu is, then you have a very one sided view of Manila. You meet Visayans that earlier on in their life, went to Manila, tried it for a while, didn't like it, went back to the sticks where you are, and especially if you are asking them leading questions to bolster up your own predjudices which a lot of kanos do, you will draw the wrong conclusion. For every one Visayan you meet in Cebu or Bohol, that tried it in Manila, didn't like it, and came back to hicksville, there's another two or three that went, and never returned.

 

do you think all of them speak tagalog at all times? they speak the language out of convenience since they are in a tagalog speaking community/area but once they are in family/friends who speaks the same langauge/dialect that he/she speaks, im pretty sure they speak their local language.

i had a friend before who literally speaks ilongo as her dialect, later came to cebu for work, altho she can speak cebuano pretty well but when she is in front of her ilongo friends she speaks ilongo even if theyre in cebu, same goes with all the cebuanos working in manila, they might speak tagalog in front of the people who speaks it but if theyre on their cebuano circle of friends theyll speak cebuano.

and as ive always says... educated people in the country speaks tagalog since it was taught at school BUT NO ONE USE THEM ON A DAILY BASIS if you live outside manila/tagalog speaking places.

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Mang Kanor

You do seem to harbour a particular venom towards Cebu people, calling this beautiful island 'hicksville' and generally denigrating the local population if not the whole province.

 

It is very difficult to have a balanced exchange with such a bigoted mindset.

 

As far as the 'official' languages are concerned the 1935 constitution designated English and Spanish as the official languages of the RP. However the national Language Institute designated Tagalog as the 'National Language'. This contradicted the first constitution of 1897 which had named Tagalog as the official language of the Philippines.

 

There has been some argument about whether 'Pilipino' or 'Filipino' is the correct designation, but as far as I have been able to research they are both Tagalog.

 

The 1987 constitution names Filipino as the national language.

 

Tagalog does appear to have been decided upon as a lingua franca.

 

the language Filipino is not pure tagalog, it is composed of some other dialects ie cebuano but majority of it is tagalog... i say 95%.

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udonthani

Metro Cebu (Cebu City) is the second Metropolitan area in the Philippines after Manila, theres no other competitor.

 

Cebu City is not considered the province. That's what Whippy calls it.

 

this guy is hilarious and he gets it spectacularly wrong not just sometimes, but every time.

 

Cebu city is like Chiang Mai, Thailand. Though it does deserve it's tag line of 2nd city of the nation state to which it belongs, that doesn't mean it's the second largest metropolitan area - it is not, either in area, or by population size. Chiang Mai is the second city of Thailand, for cultural reasons not size, as in the old days Chiang Mai was the capital city of a rival kingdom to Siam, Lanna, now incorporated into Thailand, and quite recently too, only 107 years ago. Cebu is something like this.

 

the largest metro area outside Luzon, by both area and population size, is Davao, not Cebu, just like the largest metro area outside Bangkok in Thailand, is not Chiang Mai.

Edited by udonthani

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udonthani

 

Cebu City is not considered the province. That's what Whippy calls it.

 

it is by Manilans, and they do have a point.

 

metro Manila in the Philippines, is like Gauteng, in South Africa. It totally utterly dominates it. Sure Gauteng isn't the nicest place to be in the country, but what the hell does that mean.

 

I was told, that almost half, 40%, of the electricity consumed in the Philippines, is consumed in the NCR region. By now you should be realising, just how much of a province everywhere else in the Philippines is.

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nolimeTangere

All I know being a Filipino, I can go anywhere in the Philippines with my Tagalog and I'm positively sure there will always be someone who will understand me and be able to talk to me and show me directions if I ever get lost. That would be from Aparri to Jolo, they would know Tagalog.

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Paul
it is by Manilans, and they do have a point.

 

That's not entirely accurate. The people of Manila (and the MMA) tend to call ANYWHERE outside the MMA, "the provinces". They do so in a disparaging tone, because they look down on many people in other parts of the country.

 

For example, in Cebu, you would call a woman "Dai". It would be toward a younger woman you know, a younger woman who works for you, etc. It could also be meant as a term of endearment toward your wife or girlfriend.

 

In Manila, they would call a person of lesser social rank by using the same word. This would be stated to a maid, for example.

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Paul

All I know being a Filipino, I can go anywhere in the Philippines with my Tagalog and I'm positively sure there will always be someone who will understand me and be able to talk to me and show me directions if I ever get lost. That would be from Aparri to Jolo, they would know Tagalog.

 

Of course they will. Filipinos around the country must learn Tagalog in school.

 

However, in provincial areas, I have known a number Filipinos who are not much on communicating in Tagalog, because they rarely have used it since leaving high school. They do, however, understand it completely, because they watch many shows that are in Tagalog. Very few are in Cebuano, although they do exist.

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Mr.T

All I know being a Filipino, I can go anywhere in the Philippines with my Tagalog and I'm positively sure there will always be someone who will understand me and be able to talk to me and show me directions if I ever get lost. That would be from Aparri to Jolo, they would know Tagalog.

 

But when I was travelling with my Tagalog friend, she talked to everyone in Tagalog, and many would just reply in Cebuano, she would have to ask to speak Tagalog

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