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Mr.T

Visayan Languages

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Dragon

So show me where this bullshit information is so we can get it corrected on the wiki. Dare you.

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Paul

Here are some other sites, which can hold just as much water as any wiki site can. Although there may be some differences, the one that matters is a constant:

 

http://emievil.hubpa...the-Philippines

 

http://www.csun.edu/...orlanguages.htm

 

http://wiki.answers....the_Philippines <-- another wiki

 

 

A language map of the Philippines:

Philmap.jpg

 

I think I have made my point. Now, YOU go correct Wikipedia if you wish.

Edited by Paul

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Paul

Bro, I love you to death, but do not debate with me about Cebuano being a language. I have spent over a decade learning it.

 

Okay. I'm outta here. I gots to go eats me sum foods. :)

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SkyMan
Bisaya, however, is a dialect of Cebuano. I just wanted to clear that up.
I guess you could look at it either way. Visayan a dialect of Cebuano or vice versa. Usually I've heard it the other way but either works.
For the record, whippy (udonthani) more people in the Philippines speak Cebuano, or a dialect there of, than they do the national language.
Certainly their first language yes.
Not sure what you're looking at on the first link but on the second there is this chart:

Below are population estimates from the 2000 Philippine census by National Statistics Office of the Philippines on the number of Filipinos who speak the following 18 languages as a native language.

Which has Tagolog at 22M and Cebuano at 20M. The chart shows these numbers coming from the NSO (Manila - Tagolog). Also, the chart says "A" native language. So those who have been force fed Tagolog in the schools, even if not their first language, could be counted to speak Tagolog as A native language.

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Mr.T

The truth is, if you live in the Visayas and want to learn the language, better you go for Cebuano, because if you arrive in Cebu, Davao, Cagayan or Negros you won't be hearing any Waray or Ilongo like udonthani keeps claiming

Edited by Mr.T

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Dragon

Bro, I love you to death, but do not debate with me about Cebuano being a language. I have spent over a decade learning it.

 

Okay. I'm outta here. I gots to go eats me sum foods. :)

 

And yes you are a dear friend of mine, but you are not right about this. I tried to convince you months ago regarding Cebuano language. We both were taught Cebuano by the same teacher. Ask Sem if Bisaya is a minor dialect of Cebuano.

 

As for your links only the first one disputes the data in the wiki. Who the hell is this guy and where did he get his information? The wiki takes its info from the Philippine census. That is the only measure that can be used to state how many speakers there are of a language.

Edited by Dragon

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Dragon

Truth is that Cebuano is a dying language. It will be several generations before that happens but it is on it's way. The largest contributor to that is the absence of any formal textbook or course material for the language. It has never been taught in schools here. It has splintered into many mini-dialects in the current time. It is largely recognized that there is a "provincial cebuano" and a "city cebuano" already. Add the "street cebuano" and the language gets further diluted to where one cannot say exactly what is Cebuano.

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Paul
Truth is that Cebuano is a dying language. It will be several generations before that happens but it is on it's way.

 

Considering it is the first language (Cebuano) children learn in their homes, from the time they are born, I don't see that happening. But, you and I will be long dead and rotting in our graves, if it ever does happen.

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Nangulo
Truth is that Cebuano is a dying language. The largest contributor to that is the absence of any formal textbook or course material for the language.

 

Agreed. The lack of formal Cebuano will eventually kill the language.

 

I normally don't respond 3 paged deep into a thread, but here's an example.:

 

Family living in Samar speaks Waray-Waray. Fiance living in Cebu wants family to visit. Family says, "No, we'll meet you in Manila, instead." Why? Because to visit Cebu they would have to speak Tagalog to be understood, and be automatically seen as "foreigners" in their own country.

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Paul

LOL. Well, I wonder how many of us are going to be around when that day comes? I would say, pretty much no members of this forum, OR their children, or their children's children. So, isn't that point pretty well moot? :)

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SkyMan

As I understand there is a push to get the local languages formalized and taught in schools. Certainly makes a lot of sense. I would think it would be pretty difficult to learn subjects taught in a foreign language.

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Mang Kanor

less than half of Filipinos can speak Bisaya whereas almost all of them can speak Tagalog, it is the most important language in the Philippines and this reflected by responsible parents quite often insisting that Tagalog is spoken around the dinner table wherever they may live, as they know that the chances of at least some of the children having to make a living in the economic, business, and political powerhouse of the country, Metro Manila, is high.

 

lol where you get this information that parents wants their children to speak tagalog?

i havent heard of a bisaya/cebuano speaking family urge their children to speak tagalog during meals... cebuanos avoid speaking tagalog as much as possible especially when they are with their peers.

filipinos that are educated can speak tagalog since it was taught at school but not all of them speaks it on a daily basis.

also responsible and educated parents urge their children to speak ENGLISH rather than tagalog (lol) as it is MORE USEFUL anywhere in the PI and in the world.

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Mr.T

lol where you get this information that parents wants their children to speak tagalog?

i havent heard of a bisaya/cebuano speaking family urge their children to speak tagalog during meals... cebuanos avoid speaking tagalog as much as possible especially when they are with their peers.

filipinos that are educated can speak tagalog since it was taught at school but not all of them speaks it on a daily basis.

also responsible and educated parents urge their children to speak ENGLISH rather than tagalog (lol) as it is MORE USEFUL anywhere in the PI and in the world.

 

That's what I was thinking too, and i've had dinner with responable families in the Philippines.....

Edited by Mr.T

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udonthani

honestly not kidding - I've met a number of families who encourage the children, to speak Tagalog in the house, or at least around the dinner table, some wealthier ones, even English, at least when the children are older, this happens in Malaysia too, where the Malay language performs a similar role that Tagalog does in the Philippines. I've also met other foreigners, who have come across this too. It's definitely not that unusual. The Philippines is a multi-lingual country. Even uneducated people can often speak three languages or even more.

 

 

For the record, whippy (udonthani) more people in the Philippines speak Cebuano, or a dialect there of, than they do the national language.

 

this is just not true. Marginally more people speak Tagalog than Cebuano as a first language, but not much more. But the number of people who can speak Tagalog as either a first, a second or a third language is astronomical. It's about 95% of Filipinos.

 

The truth is, if you live in the Visayas and want to learn the language, better you go for Cebuano, because if you arrive in Cebu, Davao, Cagayan or Negros you won't be hearing any Waray or Ilongo like udonthani keeps claiming

 

total rubbish. Just as many people speak Ilongo in like Negros Occidental and southern Panay as speak Cebuano and many people on Mindanao also speak it. Waray speakers are primarily on Leyte and Samar. Though more Leyte people speak Cebuano than Waray as a first language, many speak both and just about all of them also speak Tagalog as well.

 

here's an example of somebody I know, she was born, in Manila to two parents one of whom was from Dalaguete, in Cebu and the other one Masbate. When she was just a baby, the family relocated to Masbate to live. I've been texting her about it all day and this is her story.

 

born in Manila, raised in Masbate and lived there until she graduated from high school age 15 at which point like many like her, she moved to Manila to go to university.

 

until aged 15 she spoke in the local Masbate dialect 95% of the time, but also learned English and Tagalog at school, though she didn't speak them often, she says English probably more than Tagalog, 3% against 2%.

 

as soon as she got to Manila, obviously everything changes. Suddenly she speaks Tagalog 95% of the time, local dialect 4% of the time and English 1%. This is somebody who works as a lawyer too, and is currently a prosecutor, who you might think would speak English a lot, but in actual fact doesn't. English is a language of the law in the Philippines mostly in written form.

 

somebody said that English is more important a language in the Philippines, than Tagalog. This is bull. Hardly anybody speaks it daily. There's a tiny elite that speaks English as something of an affectation, there are people like my friend who speaks English most days, but only in court, not anywhere else, the not all that many people who work in call centers, some but not all people who work in tourism, and people who are married to foreigners. Add these up, and it's not all that many people.

 

at work in court, English is spoken but not exclusively. In all her hundreds of courtroom sessions in Manila, she has never seen a judge that did not speak Tagalog at some point in the session. Sometimes she goes to Cebu to do a trial there. Tagalog is spoken in courts there too, but Cebuano is spoken as well, unlike in Manila, where Cebuano is never spoken. Why? 95% plus of Filipinos speak Tagalog anyway. I often ask Filipinos to rate their language skills with marks out of 10 for each language and I've never come across even one, that marked themselves less than 8 with Tagalog, and most, even the ones with limited education, say 10. They nearly all believe they speak it as well or almost as well, as their local dialect. With English, it's surprising accurately they know how good or bad their English is, and the average mark they give themselves is 5 to 7. People like the lawyer have a high English score. She gives herself 9. Good, but not as good as Cebuano or Tagalog, where she gives herself 10.

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AB2000

 

Everyone who speaks Waray Waray and Ilongo can speak Cebuano, but not everyone who speaks Cebuano can speak Waray Waray or Ilongo,

False

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