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Bill H

Unconventional pump boat part V

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Bill H

Thanks Tikayem, if you don't mind, where did you get your crab pots and how big are they? Are you placing them in deep or shallow water? Bait? I can't eat them, but I'm for sure interested in selling them to people who can!

 

This boat has been a good experience. My guys are learning and their doing well. I'm happy. Life is good until it's not. LOL

 

Regards,

 

Bill

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Bill, if you do decide to build a cat, build a solid platform across the hulls. That way you can have the struts in the platform and the platform will keep the boat a lot more stable. It also gives you a lot more room for those ladies to lay out in the sun...good luck on getting Filipinas to do that. You could even build a cabin on the platform if you want.

 

:)

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Ricbak

That's an interesting idea, but I fear the stresses between the two hulls in a seaway would become huge, so the beams connecting the two hulls would have to be very, very robust, as would the structure that supported the beams in each hull. Basically, what you would have would be a power catamaran. If you ever look at cats, the beams that connect the hulls are very robust. It would certainly be doable though, and it's an interesting thought I had not really considered before now. If you did it, there would be no need for outriggers, since the hulls themselves would become the self supporting outriggers. Hummmmm I'll think on this!

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

Skyman there is a name for what your suggesting................its called a Catamaran, but as for the stresses Bill, look at the James Wharram designs for self build catamarans, basic but tried and tested many have been sailed around the world, He advocates lashing the beams with rope to allow for some movement and this system like the nylon fishing line lashing for the banca outriggers .....works.

 

I have wondered why the Banca has not been developed in the Phils and I believe that it is down to cost of building two hulls. With the cost of fuel why dont these Bancas utilise a small sailing rig to save on fuel, and have a means of propulsion if the engine fails?

 

Good luck with your project

 

Ricbak

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Bill H

I'm leery of Cats to cross oceans, but puttering around the islands here would be a better application for them I think. For sure they have lots of room on deck. Not so much carrying capacity as a monohull, but for one or two week trips around the Islands here, who cares? I'll take a gander at Wharram designs and see what I can see. What I've already built wouldn't be a bad start. I think if I were going to get serious about a cat, I'd want hulls about twice the length of these though. They are only 16' at the bottom of the keel, and I'd want at least 32 I suspect to give me room for accommodations. A couple of 22hp diesels would proide plenty of power and not gulp too much fuel. Anyone interested in chartering this baby if I build her? ;-)

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SkyMan
Skyman there is a name for what your suggesting................its called a Catamaran
Yes, I know what a catamaran is but I was thinking to keep the outriggers though they wouldn't need to be so far out. For a true catamaran you don't need outriggers at all but the hulls have to be farther apart basically one being the outrigger for the other. ......ahhhhh, some day....

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Stranded Shipscook

Yes, I know what a catamaran is but I was thinking to keep the outriggers though they wouldn't need to be so far out. For a true catamaran you don't need outriggers at all but the hulls have to be farther apart basically one being the outrigger for the other. ......ahhhhh, some day....

 

if you combine two bancas you may gain a bigger deckspace,but the critical aspect is the underwater line and hydroduamic you build up in between those.

 

it is better to rather have one slightly larger hull and then 'plaatform the deckspace. the Trimaran Principal.

 

But it involves a lot of knowledge. beter you use the catamaran principal, its the ideal concept for larger deckspaces.

 

Try the James Wharram principle of connecting the hulls, he has over 50 years of experience and his designs are fantastic.

Easy to build and seaworthy.

 

http://wharram.com/site/

 

And many other links, james Wharram is probably THE "self boat build designer" of the world.

 

if you like, i have a lot fo literature about Catamarans and building them.You can borrow them. I planned to build one myself.

 

But then i abandoned my ideas due to many factors complicating the matter ghere. (Eventually i decide to buy one in Greece, it was cheaper and better.)

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Bill H

Well, yeah Skyman you could do that, but it would degrade the stability and one of the advantages of the catamaran form. There is a reason the two hulls are spread fairly far apart and the reason is stability. In a sail boat, as one hull is pushed down the oposite hull is raised up and it's weight plus the leverage created by the distance of the hull from the other hull tends to pull the boat back to the level position. There's also some fluid dynamics involved with the waves from one hull interacting with the waves from the other hull, but I'm not enough of a Naval Architect to get deep into that. Bottom line though, is the distance between the two hulls is a good thing and adding outriggers would be both unnecessary and complicate things more than they need to be.

 

The probelm I have with all multihulls (and a pumpboat is in fact a simplistic trimaran) is that no matter how many hulls there are, multihulls are always more stable upside down than right side up. That scares me for an off shore boat. In shore and coastal cruising not so much. So I think for cruising around the Philippines a catamaran might offer some advantages if based on the pump boat hull form. The key to that would be the connecting beams between the two hulls no matter how they were attached to the hulls. Modern cats use aluminum and kelvar based beams which are integral to both hulls. I'm not sure I see the advantage to lashed beams, but I'm not enough of an expert on the subject to argue that point.

 

When all is said and done, I think it's an intreging idea and I suspect I'll be pursing it in the coming months. It would be even better if I could figure out a way to make a buck or two out of it.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

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Stranded Shipscook

When all is said and done, I think it's an intreging idea and I suspect I'll be pursing it in the coming months. It would be even better if I could figure out a way to make a buck or two out of it.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

I wish you good luck with that, i tried it for three years with my relatively Luxury Sailing Catamaran, but even complete packages like 5000 php for 3 days/4 people did not attract many people.

 

In 3 years i had 6 charters...mostly only one week long.

 

Maybe in Moalboal its better now. But its a hot market ( daycruises and all that )

 

Here is the Photo of my greatest love of all - "El Fili", 10 mtr LOA, 6 Mtr WOA. Ocean going Catamaran, Deckspace 3 x 4 meters easy, good for 10 guys easy sitting ! Not to mention the nets in front with another 3x4 meters hammock space to sunbath around..

4 bunks.

I bought it for 25k US$ in Crete, sailed it here in 2001 an sold it in 2004 to a Kiwi for about the same.

 

post-8399-0-36801300-1326634207_thumb.jpg

 

I haven't converted all my photos yet.

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Bill H

How long did it take you to get here Gunther? I'm guessing you went by way of SA and then up from Indonesia?

 

I'm really wanting to bring my steel 45' Roberts here, but it's an 8,000 jaunt and I just don't have the time. I've thought about seeking out a Filipino crew to do the majority of the trip for me and may do that if I can find the right crew.

 

Bill

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Bill H

A followup question for you Gunther: Do you think your location had much to do with it? You're not really in a resort area there, are you?

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Bill H

Another followup question because I'm being slow tonight: Did you promote the charters very much? As in advertise them or team up with a booking service?

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

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Stranded Shipscook

How long did it take you to get here Gunther? I'm guessing you went by way of SA and then up from Indonesia?

 

I'm really wanting to bring my steel 45' Roberts here, but it's an 8,000 jaunt and I just don't have the time. I've thought about seeking out a Filipino crew to do the majority of the trip for me and may do that if I can find the right crew.

 

Bill

All together sailing days at sea 92 days for 8999 nm. I did not sail 24 hrs, as i was single handed from Oman on. Autopilot wrecked after 3 days in the Indian Ocean, and on a 10 meter catamaran boat with full raging fresh SW monsun i did not leave the sheets up and just had drifting naps. That considerably slowed me down to an 100 nm average. And later after Thailand i did just pleasure sailing with daily anchorage since i also did lots of shore visits. So all in all i had only a 90 nm average. Which is pretty slow for an open bridge catamaran.

 

I could bring the Roberts it over for you, we may talk about it. Got my own guys for this, i'll travel light anyway. 2 will do. No pinoys, they got not much experience under sails, and if, they are very expensive.

I never sail with unexperienced guys, too many unknown factors.

Edited by G....

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Stranded Shipscook

A followup question for you Gunther: Do you think your location had much to do with it? You're not really in a resort area there, are you?

Another followup question because I'm being slow tonight: Did you promote the charters very much? As in advertise them or team up with a booking service?

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

internet and in German magazines and i had a few charter companies in Europe. I did not do too much promotion, as it requires insurances and full (paid) crew here.

 

Location is only interesting when it comes to day charters.

 

Well, and 2002 the philippines wasn't much of a desired sailing charter destination. Don't know if this has changed much ( i doubt it ) Talked to some yachties on saturday and they more or less hang around idle as well.

Edited by G....

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jusjoseph

Thanks....I love and miss sailing.

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