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As his deputy, Clegg a pro-European, is attacking him over the Veto, Cameron should call a snap election now and make renegotiation of our continued membership of the EU - with a referendum at the end of that process - one of the central policy planks; I suspect he'd get an overall majority and thus be able to govern without the Lib-Dems.

 

The Brussels accord certainly strengthens Germany's position and makes it the dominant force in the EU replacing France and about time too, the French have had their own way for far too long. But all eyes will be on Germany and as, Der Spiegel warns, there may be some anti-German sentiment expressed by those countries who've thus far enjoyed living off the fat - notably France and the PIIGS nations. But, apart from some tinkering about the edges, I can't see what Germany can do to ensure stability. Any proposed major changes face the real prospect of veto by those countries that would be adversely affected since their governments would be considering national interests first.

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Behind all this, there is STILL the "banking crisis".   The European banks (excluding the UK ones) need to raise collateral of between 3.5 and 5 TRILLION (Euros) just to stay solvent, and that is a

As a Brit I am watching what has happened over the last days with concern, and reading the comments here with some amusement. Someone likened the British attitude to a potential passenger of the Titan

You mean give up sovereignty to a country with 50 different sets of laws, with 2 main parties that are usually diametrically opposed on most issues and is in huge debt without a clear strategy for pay

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SkyMan

Its a bit of controversial what you are saying. If the UK is doing so well (indicated by the triple A) then why would it need to kick out those 1000's?

Plus who would work as nurse in Almostnotonthemapshire or who would do the jobs the Brits don't want to take?

That's the same argument used to explain the 'need' for illegals in the US and I don't buy it. They take those jobs because they are willing be paid minimal salaries under the table. That in itself should be illegal and if paid what they should be I'm sure Americans would be willing to do them. People don't want that because the price of produce would rise slightly and that freaks them out. They don't see the huge costs they are paying to save a few cents on a tomato.

 

I think if the UK is tired of EU policies they should get out. I see being in it as long as it's good for all of Europe but when the ship is sinking, it's time to jump.

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thebob
I think if the UK is tired of EU policies they should get out. I see being in it as long as it's good for all of Europe but when the ship is sinking, it's time to jump.

 

It isn't a case of being tired of EU policies, the Euro is in trouble and the Euro countries want to change the rules to bail themselves out with other countries monies. This involved a tax on financial transactions, an industry that is strong the UK, but not so in the rest of the EU.

 

The UK just vetoed the idea of it paying even more tax to the EU when the other EU countries would not be so severely taxed.

 

The UK has taken huge strides towards reducing it's deficit, there is no reason to jeopardize this by giving hand outs to countries, or groups of countries that cannot get their own house in order.

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That's the same argument used to explain the 'need' for illegals in the US and I don't buy it. They take those jobs because they are willing be paid minimal salaries under the table. That in itself should be illegal and if paid what they should be I'm sure Americans would be willing to do them. People don't want that because the price of produce would rise slightly and that freaks them out. They don't see the huge costs they are paying to save a few cents on a tomato.

 

I think if the UK is tired of EU policies they should get out. I see being in it as long as it's good for all of Europe but when the ship is sinking, it's time to jump.

Digiteye's point is one that is often put forward in defence of the right of EU citizens to work in the richer, more affluent countries. The fact is that mainland European schools rarely have English on the curriculum whereas they are are more likely to teach German. This is particularly true in former soviet bloc countries. British schools, by comparison, don't place much emphasis on teaching foreign languages (rightly or wrongly, but that's another topic entirely) but do offer French, German and Spanish with the latter being the most popular,

 

Lack of English skills present a big barrier to employment in the UK for those Europeans who hold professional qualifications in their own country and it places a huge financial burden on British employers, such as the National Health Service, who, under EU law, have to provide and pay for English language tuition. Prior to the EU, Britain didn't have such a problem: migrant workers came from all over the Commonwealth who did posses the required language skills and they could be quickly and easily assimilated into the workforce.

 

European migrant workers who do not posses English language skills or the qualifications do end up with unskilled, often seasonal, work such as fruit pickers working for gang-bosses at minimum wage. If Britain were to leave the EU, there would still be plenty of workers available to do those jobs but prices might have to rise as a result. Whilst not popular, it might be the medicine needed to reduce our own unemployment and get people off the benefits system - which might result in a reduction in overall taxation and thereby improve the nation's overall wealth. The 50 million Pounds a day that we pay, after all rebates, to be a member of this "club" could be put to far better use.

 

Britain, with its free health care and generous benefits system is viewed as being "the country" many aspire to move to.

 

One of the less-reported side-effects of this migration is the rise in crime caused by gangs from countries such as Albania and Romania being involved in the drugs trade, extortion and exploitation (including human trafficking).

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Countries have queuing up to join the EU and who wouldn't if you qualify for many of the benefits (e.g., freedom of movement for people, transfer payments from Brussels) and few of the costs. The UK has been the second highest net contributor to the EU.

 

The Germans may well come to rue the day that they assumed de facto leadership of the EU although personally I don't think they had much choice within the existing structure and to give credit where credit is due they have set a pretty good example in running their own economy. While some commentators suggest that the rest of Europe will try to blame the UK for any further deterioration in the situation (e.g., the struggle to save the Euro) the other 26 should have enough resources to sort things out for themselves.

 

It would have been wonderful to have seen Margaret Thatcher in her prime dealing with this situation - handbag at the ready! She would probably have given Sarkozy a quick one round the ear while he wasn't looking. Cameron just seems such a wimp in comparison.

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The UK has taken huge strides towards reducing it's deficit, there is no reason to jeopardize this by giving hand outs to countries, or groups of countries that cannot get their own house in order.

 

Exactly! France and Germany in particular have always been jealous of the strength of the financial services sector and that London is such a successful international trading base. There was a failed attempt to buy the London Stock Exchange which would ultimately have been expatriated to mainland Europe and that has stuck in the claw of our European neighbours. Because they can't own it, they seek to tax it and our other financial institutions, to pay-off their debts and to finance their profligacy.

 

Because of the size and importance of our financial services sector, the amount of additional taxation raised and paid to Europe would, I suggest, make the UK the greatest nett contributor to the EU.

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There is a very strong probability that the Euro will collapse.

To prevent that happening, the EU is pouring in millions, and will need to inject even vaster sums to have any effect.

 

Even so, they cant prevent it happening, so Camerons actions are likely to have saved us from putting money into a bottomless pit.

The opinions of the British public are no surprise.

That it has done Cameron some political good, is another matter. (I still dont like the guy!)

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There is a very strong probability that the Euro will collapse.

To prevent that happening, the EU is pouring in millions, and will need to inject even vaster sums to have any effect.

 

Even so, they cant prevent it happening, so Camerons actions are likely to have saved us from putting money into a bottomless pit.

The opinions of the British public are no surprise.

That it has done Cameron some political good, is another matter. (I still dont like the guy!)

 

Regardless of anyone's personal political beliefs and allegiances, Cameron and Osborne have undeniably acted in Britain's national interest. After all, Britain is not in the Eurozone, why should she have to pay to save that currency when she already is the second largest nett contributor to the EU pot? There is little direct benefit to Britain in saving that currency - other than make it marginally less inconvenient for travellers.

 

In fact, should the Euro collapse as I agree it is likely to do, then Sterling may well benefit. Indeed I think its likely that we will soon see a rise in the value of the US Dollar, Sterling and Swiss Francs as investors, frightened by the threat of the collapse of the Euro, move to other safer currencies. And that would be the death knell that I don't believe the ECB could mitigate.

 

With Britain refusing, who is going to finance the rescue? Obviously the PIIGS nations can't, it is they who have brought about the crisis in the first place and the new entrants can't either, so it will be up to France and Germany. The French may contribute some "show money" but the main burden will be placed on Germany and once this becomes apparent to ordinary Germans, I suspect they may not like that idea too much and seek a less painful alternative. That may be to remove the PIIGS nations from the Eurozone completely and leave it to them to sort out their internal financial problems and whilst that might save the Euro in the short term, it would be significantly less important as a world currency and thus prone to die a long and agonising death.

 

Clegg's opposition to the veto is understandable: the Lib-Dems are very much a pro-EU party and has always favoured our acceptance of the Euro and for Britain to abdicate its powers in favour of Brussels. Milliband, on the other hand, is attempting to make mischief as his party's last government consistently maintained the position that conditions were not favourable for Britain's entry into the Eurozone - and that was before the PIIGS debt crisis came to the fore. For him to criticise Cameron is somewhat hollow given Gordon Brown's opposition to the Euro. However, this issue does have the potential of bringing-down the British government as Lib-Dems withdraw their support in protest over the veto, but that could be the ace-in-the-hole for Cameron should an election be necessary. I don't think he should wait but seize the initiative and call for an immediate General Election which I predict he would win with a comfortable majority.

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Stranded Shipscook

It actually doesn't mater whether the Pound sterling is abolished or not, it rises and falls with the Euro simultaniously since the full introduction of the Euro.

Its never been independent.

 

I wonder if the public understands that or is told the entire truth.

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Stranded Shipscook

here is a good commentary, which speaks volumes and why the entire experiment of UK in the EU failed. Its a commentary, not a fact, ok ! but it expresses the sentiments of many continental people.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,802933,00.html

 

One can read it entirely, or just read the end :

 

If the British political class does not undergo a fundamental transformation, there is only one possible answer. Out.

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It actually doesn't mater whether the Pound sterling is abolished or not, it rises and falls with the Euro simultaniously since the full introduction of the Euro.

Its never been independent.

 

I wonder if the public understands that or is told the entire truth.

 

Against what benchmark? I am no expert on Forex but the 2 charts below for the last year GBP vs $ and EUR vs $ do not rise & fall together

 

post-6622-0-30670900-1323605619_thumb.png

 

post-6622-0-86479500-1323605659_thumb.png

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Stranded Shipscook

Against what benchmark? I am no expert on Forex but the 2 charts below for the last year GBP vs $ and EUR vs $ do not rise & fall together

 

post-6622-0-30670900-1323605619_thumb.png

 

post-6622-0-86479500-1323605659_thumb.png

10 years, mate, we got to see the big picture... i use the US now, as suggested.

Euro to US

post-8399-0-07819000-1323606479_thumb.png

GBP to US

post-8399-0-35186700-1323606515_thumb.png

 

don't know what caused the crash in 08, but after it it still moved similar to the Euro.

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ArieBombarie

Exactly! France and Germany in particular have always been jealous of the strength of the financial services sector and that London is such a successful international trading base. There was a failed attempt to buy the London Stock Exchange which would ultimately have been expatriated to mainland Europe and that has stuck in the claw of our European neighbours. Because they can't own it, they seek to tax it and our other financial institutions, to pay-off their debts and to finance their profligacy.

 

Because of the size and importance of our financial services sector, the amount of additional taxation raised and paid to Europe would, I suggest, make the UK the greatest nett contributor to the EU.

 

the UK is certainly not pulling out anybody on their own, there are more stronger countries carrying the burden and if you don't go shoulder to shoulder when it counts it will not be apriciated, the whole banking sector is hooked together, if this is fixed it will safe the UK's ass as well, if it fails the UK economy will suffer just as much as the rest of us.

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ArieBombarie

Regardless of anyone's personal political beliefs and allegiances, Cameron and Osborne have undeniably acted in Britain's national interest. After all, Britain is not in the Eurozone, why should she have to pay to save that currency when she already is the second largest nett contributor to the EU pot? There is little direct benefit to Britain in saving that currency - other than make it marginally less inconvenient for travellers.

 

In fact, should the Euro collapse as I agree it is likely to do, then Sterling may well benefit. Indeed I think its likely that we will soon see a rise in the value of the US Dollar, Sterling and Swiss Francs as investors, frightened by the threat of the collapse of the Euro, move to other safer currencies. And that would be the death knell that I don't believe the ECB could mitigate.

 

With Britain refusing, who is going to finance the rescue? Obviously the PIIGS nations can't, it is they who have brought about the crisis in the first place and the new entrants can't either, so it will be up to France and Germany. The French may contribute some "show money" but the main burden will be placed on Germany and once this becomes apparent to ordinary Germans, I suspect they may not like that idea too much and seek a less painful alternative. That may be to remove the PIIGS nations from the Eurozone completely and leave it to them to sort out their internal financial problems and whilst that might save the Euro in the short term, it would be significantly less important as a world currency and thus prone to die a long and agonising death.

 

Clegg's opposition to the veto is understandable: the Lib-Dems are very much a pro-EU party and has always favoured our acceptance of the Euro and for Britain to abdicate its powers in favour of Brussels. Milliband, on the other hand, is attempting to make mischief as his party's last government consistently maintained the position that conditions were not favourable for Britain's entry into the Eurozone - and that was before the PIIGS debt crisis came to the fore. For him to criticise Cameron is somewhat hollow given Gordon Brown's opposition to the Euro. However, this issue does have the potential of bringing-down the British government as Lib-Dems withdraw their support in protest over the veto, but that could be the ace-in-the-hole for Cameron should an election be necessary. I don't think he should wait but seize the initiative and call for an immediate General Election which I predict he would win with a comfortable majority.

 

the strenght of a currency is not all important unless you are a pensioner or importer, what is important is that countries get forced into budget discipline

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