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Britian Says no to EU Plan


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come on lads.... a solid rendition of " land of hope and glory " is all that's required... my opinion is f--- 'em all.... I honestly think that now is a perfect time to escape from this nightmare.... things can't get any worse...

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Behind all this, there is STILL the "banking crisis".   The European banks (excluding the UK ones) need to raise collateral of between 3.5 and 5 TRILLION (Euros) just to stay solvent, and that is a

As a Brit I am watching what has happened over the last days with concern, and reading the comments here with some amusement. Someone likened the British attitude to a potential passenger of the Titan

You mean give up sovereignty to a country with 50 different sets of laws, with 2 main parties that are usually diametrically opposed on most issues and is in huge debt without a clear strategy for pay

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Remember that although the UK is not in the Eurozone, any collapse will have a direct effect on the UK costing British Taxpayers dearly. The UK is a member of the IMF and World Bank both of which will have to step in and prop-up the ailing currency.

 

The EU has grown too fast too quickly and there are too many poor nations being supported by too few of the richer ones. Rather than consolidate and build, there has been an unseemly rush to increase the number of member nations - and all the more recently-joined members are the poorer nations of Europe. And then there's the problem of financial mismanagement on the part of the Governments of Portugal, Ireland. Italy, Greece and Spain. It is the PIIGS nations who are really at fault as they have refused to take their medicine early enough with the result that the whole structure is weak and in grave danger of collapse.

 

Even the Euro's architect, Jacques Delors, in an interview last week, all-but admitted that it was a failed experiment due to the manner in which it has been managed.

 

Any claim that the EU is anything but a Franco-German dream to control Europe has been proven to be false as it is those two countries that this week met behind closed doors to find a way out of the mess they have created. One of their proposed remedies - a two-speed Europe is hardly new: it exists already as the Eurozone and the non-Euro countries.

 

That it would be bad for Britain if she left - or was kicked-out - of the EU is untrue. Whilst there would certainly be some pain in the early days of a post-EU Britain, we are as a nation hardy and resilient and have faced bigger adversities in our past and always come out on top. We would still be able to trade with other European countries by virtue of other bi-lateral and multi-lateral treaties and freed from the shackles of Europe, could attempt to rebuild our historic trading connections with the Commonwealth and the world at large. It would harm European tax payers far more and especially in the even fewer nett contributing countries who would have to make up the budget shortfall as well as pay for the mistakes made by the PIIGS nations.

Edited by Markham
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Davaoeno

we are as a nation hardy and resilient and have faced bigger adversities in our past and always come out on top.

 

 

the operative word in that sentence of course being the first !!!

 

sorry Mark but for some reason i suddenly had an overwhelming urge to sing " Hail Britannia !" :tinkerbell:

 

 

 

we shall fight on the beaches,

we shall fight on the landing grounds,

we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,

we shall fight in the hills;

we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God’s good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.”[

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I think its always easier when we are the other side of the world. people who live ind work at home to look after their families are not mere statistics. nor are they cannon fodder for jingoism.

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I think its always easier when we are the other side of the world. people who live ind work at home to look after their families are not mere statistics. nor are they cannon fodder for jingoism.

 

I agree.... just can't help myself sometimes.... my whole original family is over there but I do know that they hate the European concept....

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"Britain has always dealt internationally, and mainly with countries outside of Europe. We still do so, and way under half of our business is with Europe.

If this is a step towards us leaving, then the sooner the better."

 

Yes 40% is a figure under half but it is way more than a statistic. What you are proposing is to tell 40 out of 100 Brits that their livelihoods mean nothing to you !! What you do not know is how much of that 40% is a contributor to net gain for uk, The costs of dealing with the other 60% could be way higher etc. just logistics and distance would suggest that!

 

'Little Englander' issues have always had their appeal

 

I do not have the answers, but I do not see a viable solution being to turn away, too many will lose too much. Otherwise I think such a decision would already have been made if it was so easy and without ramifications.

 

Not supporting the Euro currency is way different to not having access to a single market which by anyone's definition is still significant at 40%

 

Sorry Spooks but it appears you are saying that if we left the EU we would lose that 40%. Why would that be? The EU doesn't just trade with itself. In 2010 the EU imported more from the USA than from the EU27 combined & not much more than China. So the UK would surely retain most of that business anyway. I mean Airbus wouldn't stop using Rolls Royce engines for example. Like any country outside the EU as long as we met the regulations (which clearly we do already) we would for the most part continue. Some smaller inter country contracts would be lost due to political pressure but nothing like 40%

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Spooks, for the last 7 or 8 years of my working life, my sole job was to assist British companies to move or to establish operations, in countries outside of the EU.

That wasnt my choice, it was the objective of many companies, some of which had been established for many tens of years (in at least one case, > 100 years).

 

They saw that being in the EU was not in their interest, and voted with their feet. And with their own money, in some cases, a lot of money.

Now, you might assume that they did so purely out of an "anti-Europe" stance, but the reality was that they felt that the only way to survive was to be elsewhere, and were prepared to stake their entire assets and livelyhoood, on it.

 

Were they correct?

Without going in to the details of every one of them, (and I have only kept in contact with a few), I would say, generally, yes.

At least they have survived which is more than many others have done.

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The EU has grown too fast too quickly and there are too many poor nations being supported by too few of the richer ones.

 

I wonder where you got the idea of this. Yeah, there are Tesco, Aldi, Cora, Auchan, etc. stores all around with huge tax reliefs and taking the so called poor nations' money back to their homeland. There are multinational pharmaceutical companies doing the same while doctors in these countries make 50% of what a close to illiterate call center agent in the US would (as I have mentioned this in another thread).

What actually do you call as support? Coming from one of such "poor nation" I have never seen any kind of support. There were grants to apply for to renovate churches, thanks, churches always have been fine and shiny, now they look even better. Freaking big achievement.

 

To be clear, those nations are only poor because apart from the above mentioned FMCG retailers only industries requiring cheap labor have set foot in those countries, then shifted their plants to even more lucrative labor markets.

And the financial breakdown has happened in Ireland, Portugal or Greece, much earlier than in any of those poor nations (and somehow its unclear whats going on in France, but they say the real time bomb is there).

 

So just let not blame those poor nations - they obviously were needed only as new markets for the richer ones' industries, nothing else.

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The point is that 40% is significant, how much can be lost before some one decides the loss is too much?. Being a non Union member means additional expenses to operate, or it used to be hence one of the attractions of joining. This was weighed up when we voted to join in the first place. Deciding to throw our toys out the pram and walk away in a huff is not the way to go, Influencing on the inside which is what has been done since joining is the best way to go, imho.

 

Many companies may well leave the union area just as new ones grow up in side of it, it's evolution.

 

Pulling out is I believe going to cause us greater loss.

 

Commonwealth ties are more symbolic. Many of those nations have more attractive markets nearer home than us, they do not need us as much as we like to think.

 

Staying out of the Euro was a correct decision not reversed by any government nor is it likely to be in the near or distant future.

 

I wonder how many on this board would be directly affected either way?. I believe my investments would suffer and my pension may be placed at greater risk by leaving. Those with nothing to lose can be as statistical as they wish, as for them there is no 'butchers bill'

 

Also I suspect there is an age element to this. the new generations coming through are more at ease with 'johnny foreigner' the other side of the white cliffs than previous generations. perhaps the reality is we are the past and the future after a very tough present will be better for the next generation.

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ellenbrook2001

i am not surprised of the reply of the BRITISH but if he was America on that situation sure the BRITISH will say yes what does the American the British always follow them that why the British are not really welcome in the EURO zone.

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dennis1105

i am not surprised of the reply of the BRITISH but if he was America on that situation sure the BRITISH will say yes what does the American the British always follow them that why the British are not really welcome in the EURO zone.

HUH????????
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Lets turn the UK into a US state, green cards for all us!

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thebob
Lets turn the UK into a US state, green cards for all us!

 

You mean give up sovereignty to a country with 50 different sets of laws, with 2 main parties that are usually diametrically opposed on most issues and is in huge debt without a clear strategy for paying it off?

 

In what way would it differ from being a member of the EU?

 

At least in the EU they speak the same language!

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Yes, Cameron got it right: Most voters agree with PM vetoing treaty changes - and half think we should now quit the EU

 

David Cameron has received overwhelming support from British voters over his historic decision to veto changes to the EU Treaty.

 

The first poll conducted since the acrimonious Brussels summit shows that a total of 62 per cent of people agreed with the Prime Minister’s defiant stance, with just 19 per cent against.

 

Furthermore, most people believe the euro is doomed to fail and almost half think the EU will break up. They also fear the summit has given too much power to Germany.

 

article-2072616-0F21F5C300000578-646_634x370.jpg

 

If there was a referendum today on whether the UK should quit the EU, is would be likely to produce a resounding Yes. Nearly 50 per cent say we should go our own way, with 33 per cent in favour of staying in.

 

 

Amid the frenetic recriminations following the summit, the poll shows Mr Cameron’s dramatic move to set Britain on a separate course from the other 26 nations in the EU is wholeheartedly endorsed by voters.

 

The summit triumph has also wiped out Labour’s lead in the opinion polls.

 

article-2072616-0F21F88300000578-502_634x371.jpg

 

 

Both Labour and the Conservatives are now on 35 per cent, with the Lib Dems on 14. According to the exclusive poll for The Mail on Sunday, nearly two-thirds of voters believe the new EU initiative, designed to save the euro by imposing tough economic controls on bankrupt European countries, is probably a waste of time.

 

A total of 65 per cent say the euro currency is doomed, with fewer than one in five convinced it will survive. And there is a clear consensus that the rot is likely to spread to the EU institution itself. Almost half of voters say it will shatter, with just 29 per cent confident it will stay intact.

 

The survey also suggests that Mr Cameron’s bold stance – hailed as a great triumph by Tory MPs – has served to whet the appetite of voters who want him to go further.

 

Two in three want a referendum on Britain’s future in Europe with just 22 per cent against.

Calls for Mr Cameron to press home his advantage and demand that Brussels hands back more powers to London produce an almost identical level of support.

 

The public are in no doubt that despite all the grandstanding by French President Nicolas Sarkozy, Mr Cameron came off best in Brussels. When asked if the Prime Minister had done well from the negotiations, more than half agreed. In comparison, German Chancellor Angela Merkel scored 44 per cent with Mr Sarkozy languishing in third place on 35.

 

Interestingly, as Britain steps back from Europe, there is growing nervousness at the advance of German influence in the new-look EU. Seven out of ten say the summit has given too much power to Germany – with a mere 13 per cent disagreeing.

 

Nor is the jittery feeling restricted to Britain. Warning of a backlash, an article in leading German newspaper Der Spiegel said: ‘We are going to have to put up with a bit of Germanophobia.’

Charles Grant, director of the London based Centre for European Reform think tank, said: ‘For the first time in the history of the EU, the Germans are now in charge.’

 

Survation interviewed 1,020 people online on Friday evening and Saturday.

 

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1gCgFt22a

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