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Keeping Davao safe and liveable


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Stranded Shipscook

Guenther, for a long time resident of the Philippines I find your view on how you expect things to be handled in this country as incredibly naive. If we wait for the politicians to " make them work " i believe that we are all in bad trouble !!

 

Example - there is rampant corruption- how long do we wait until the Politians do their job and solve the problem ? Have you noticed that having that attitude has solved a lot of the legal problems here in the Philippines in the last 20 years ?

 

You say " it is not one Madman" who makes it happen ? Do you honestly feel Duterte is a Madman ? because i can tell you- you wont find a lot of support for your view here in Davao.

 

Duterte is just a guy who said " enough is enough, I'm not putting up with this violent abuse of our citizens anymore, and I'm going to do something about it ! And we are not talking about any kind of vigilantism here - [ because that NOT what happened !!] - what we are talking about is a Mayor/VIce mayor who was willing to stand up in public and warn kidnappers ,murderers,robbers,drug dealers that force would be met with force- and they would be dealt with harshly. And the citizens of Davao are much safer for it. The people arent as you say "silent" - they are cheering !!

At first i like to say, that Duerte isn't a Madman and that i do not in particular mean him. I was in general from my first post of this subject speaking about "future worries". And i was not really referring to the OP, but to the General acceptance of violence and undue process in Davao. But if you like to hear a comment about the OP- here it is : Sounds like Mussolini in his early days. :welcome: (but i am not talking about the OP in my posts)

 

If human people, and that includes politicians learn that a short term solution brings good results, they cheer and like it.

Just as the Germans shortly after Hitler got elected. When he then TOOK the full power, they had no toher choice to cheer.

I use Hitler as an example, because i am German and nobody feels "attacked". But World History, including modern one, has multiple other very similar examples. ( Plus, please allow me the little arrogance, i know a lot about dictatorships and how they start, this is a prime subject of me. )

 

The solution of law and order is certainly problematic in the Philippines, but they have to got he painful way. If necessary and crime can not be gotten under control, there are also other mechanism, even with partial martial law and the likes. Nothing stops and Mayor to demand better trained and better disciplined Police forces. he ca also raise an own civil Police, as log as they operate in the open and stand up for their operations, no Problem.

 

But I can not accept the violation of international human rights and the denial of due process of criminals is part of it. the Human race fought to long for those rights and honorable Mayor Duterte (who i like very much, as well as his daughter, the current Mayor) are no exemptions.

Thomas Osmena of Cebu City was also almost on the same path as Davao, but for some reasons the majority of (influential) people did not accepted it, so the Human Rights violation of Vigilante Killings stopped. (Somewhat with nbr ~200 or so)

 

The fact, that i am a long term resident is of no concern. Even my own opinion is of no concern. What is of importance is to uphold the law by any legal means possible.

Otherwise we soon end up in the vicious circle described by Pastor Niemueller.

 

If one gives a person to much power, he will use it, but the case where the power was used in a good way, is still to be seen in history.

 

Thats more or less what i like to say, beware about the beginnings or the spirits that one cited.....

 

PS- What else do you expect from an A.I. Activist :rofl:

Edited by CATMAN
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Fair question- but my answer is more based on my personal views than on being an ex lawyer. When Dutertes son pulled over a bus that disobeyed a traffic light and pistol whipped the driver i came out

It may seem good, and it has an effect, but i worry about the future. When will it stop ? Where will it stop ? What if times change ? In this questions i always like to use the famous phrase of Past

So...vigilantism is OK...provided it is led by a "fair" and educated person?   Latin American and Southeast Asian history is full of such "benevolent" dictators, who thought they were doing the "ri

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Davaoeno

At first i like to say, that Duerte isn't a Madman and that i do not in particular mean him. I was in general from my first post of this subject speaking about "future worries". And i was not really referring to the OP, but to the General acceptance of violence and undue process in Davao. if you like a comment about the OP- here it is : Sounds like Mussolini in his early days.(but i am not talking about the OP)

 

:ROFLMAO:

 

damn Guenther- will you please reread what you just wrote !! You cant make a comment about someone and then just say " i'm not talking about them" . It destroys your credibility .

You say you like Duterte- then you say that it sounds like Mussolini in his early days. My friend- I believe you are very confused on this issue. Of course that happens when something occurs that violates our liberal/green sensibilities- but we have to admit that we admire it immensely ! We all admire someone who is willing to take a stand on something and not just mouth meaningless platitudes. The person who is willing to take the sometimes unpopular position and stand up to the bullies- in this case the violent offenders. Much of the world sneers at Americans - for being insensitive and crude and unaccepting of anything American- but at least Americans in general are willing to take a stand on things . I have made much fun of John Wayne [ sorry theDuke!] but his characters in general are examples of someone willing to stand for something ! I dont think the Duke played a single character who wouldnt wholly support Duterte !

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Stranded Shipscook

damn Guenther- will you please reread what you just wrote !! You cant make a comment about someone and then just say " i'm not talking about them" . It destroys your credibility .

You say you like Duterte- then you say that it sounds like Mussolini in his early days. My friend- I believe you are very confused on this issue. Of course that happens when something occurs that violates our liberal/green sensibilities- but we have to admit that we admire it immensely ! We all admire someone who is willing to take a stand on something and not just mouth meaningless platitudes. The person who is willing to take the sometimes unpopular position and stand up to the bullies- in this case the violent offenders. Much of the world sneers at Americans - for being insensitive and crude and unaccepting of anything American- but at least Americans in general are willing to take a stand on things . I have made much fun of John Wayne [ sorry theDuke!] but his characters in general are examples of someone willing to stand for something ! I dont think the Duke played a single character who wouldnt wholly support Duterte !

You wanted a comment on the blabla of Duterte in his public statement, so i made one. I also edited it now with a smiley.

 

Naturally I (and you) also realize that Duterte is a Politician and as such speaks just what is most favored by the people. If he would be Mayor of Cebu City or Puerto Princesa, he would speak differently again. Or loose the election.

So he can be a nice guy (as i know him) and speak like a Fascist in the same person, since his political alter ego is as flexible like the one of an actor.

 

In the further post however, i say again, i do not want to comment on the OP speech at all, as it is political propaganda for Duterte. Simple as that, and i don't comment on propaganda. I just talk about principals.

 

Admiration or acceptance for human rights violation is non existent in me,regardless of political or other views. Its just in my education.

For my views see the German Constitution, i do not waver one millimeter of it. Nowhere, and it is my strongest weapon in any argument.

Because almost all nations or nationalities i deal with have the same constitution and many have sworn an oath to protect and uphold it. Even die for it.

 

Now thjs is the bottom line, i try this approach now: We (i humbly include Germany now as well, although our contributing part is very small ) send troops to nations all other the globe mainly in order to protect (by our standards) human rights and try to give the people a chance of a better and free live(At least this is what we are told) and on the other hand i shall applause people which violate this standards?

 

You are right then, when you say, i am confused .

 

Again, any violation of human rights, even of criminals of any kind, is not conform with my upbringing. And i certainly can say with anyones upbringing as i am not aware that any of the forum members is of any of the countries which still allow it in their basic laws.

 

After all, Davao is just a city and it is NOT at war, if so, then martial law may be introduced and due process denied. Until then, any form of non observance of the laws by its EXECUTIVE is to be condemned.

Criminals are to be condemned to to, but still one has to try to catch them as the law DEMANDS.

 

Here i stand and can be no other.

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Davaoeno

Simple as that, and i don't comment on propaganda.

 

I wont press you further on this because this is after all just an exchange of ideas that counts for nothing in the realm of things , but I would just like to say that i think that 90% of what people say is "propoganda" - in one way or another.

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A_Simple_Man

The title of the thread is about keeping Davao safe . . .

 

After reading most of the comments I wonder, do the actions of Duterte keep Davao safe or just deliver quick, frontier justice after the deed is done? I don't see a way to come to a conclusion because it is possible the crime rate would be just the same if all the criminals were to face legal justice, with the sole exception that dead criminals can sin no more.

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<p>

<br />

<span style="color: #0000CD"><strong>gee Mike - i didnt realize that Berger kidnapped a child at gun point and threw a grenade at the pursuing police ??   But if that is what he did then yes, you are correct, there is a good chance that he would be dead now if he did that !!</strong></span><br />

<span style="color: #0000CD"><strong>But since you are giving us all a lesson on how life is in Davao Mike- why dont you list for us the names of the foreigners in Davao that have been executed without trial for committing crimes ? Come on Mike- I'm sure you arent just spouting unfounded stories just like a filipino reporter-are you Mike ?  </strong></span><br />

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<span style="color: #0000CD"><strong><img alt=":ROFLMAO:" class="bbc_emoticon" src="http://www.livingincebuforums.com/public/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif" /> </strong></span><br />

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<p>OK Smart Poop Shoot - here is your OP</p>

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<p> </p>

<div id="article-detail" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; ">

<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 1.45em; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal 'Trebuchet MS', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">By <a href="http://www.sunstar.com.ph/taxonomy/term/1457" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(0, 51, 102); text-decoration: none; ">Ivy C. Tejano</a></p>

</div>

<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 1.45em; ">Monday, October 24, 2011</p>

<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 1.45em; ">DAVAO City Vice Mayor Rodrigo Duterte warned kidnappers of the consequence of their actions and reminded children to avoid strangers.</p>

<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 1.45em; ">Duterte got mad after two men abducted a six-year-old boy from the Matina Central Elementary School last Monday.</p>

<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 1.45em; ">One <a 10="" 2011="" 21="" davao="" href="http://www.sunstar.com.ph/davao/local-news/2011/10/24/%E2%80%9D" http:="" local-news="" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(0, 51, 153); text-decoration: underline; " www.sunstar.com.ph="">kidnapper was shot dead</a> while another was captured in last Monday’s incident.</p>

<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 1.45em; ">“I already warned you (kidnappers) on this a long time ago, na huwag na huwag ninyo gagawin yan dito sa Davao City. Because if that happens, para mo na rin sinugal ang buhay mo, ipapahuli ko talaga kayo sa police even that would mean death. As long as I am a resident of this city, I will never tolerate this kind of inhuman act,” Duterte said.</p>

<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 1.45em; ">He said he does not mind if the Commission on Human rights will again scrutinize him for possible violations as he intends to make the city free of criminals like these.</p>

<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 1.45em; ">“If you are really doing inhuman act, I will surely catch you and I will not give you human rights. You don’t deserve it. I will treat you as an animal. So let me reiterate my warning to all, you do that and it will be at the expense to your life…” Duterte said.</p>

<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 1.45em; ">Duterte also appealed to the children not to talk or go with strangers.</p>

<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 1.45em; ">“Only go with those your parents told you will be fetching you from school. If a person is there telling you that your parents have asked him to fetch you, don’t go even if you know that person. It’s easy to pretend to be a relative,” Duterte said in vernacular.</p>

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<div class="clear" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; clear: both; ">I also clicked on the links in your OP - where does it talk about a kidnapping at gun point and grenades being tossed?  Is this topic a continuation of another topic on the Kidnapping?  Do you reference that somewhere?</div>

<div class="clear" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; clear: both; "> </div>

<div class="clear" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; clear: both; ">So maybe you can respond to me without being so condescending on what I missed in your OP that would give me a better idea of this Vice Mayor  - OK Mr Blue Man?</div>

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Guenther - I wish you'd cease likening the Dutertes to long-dead facist European dictators, neither Roddy nor his daughter have anything in common with them. They enjoy the support, respect and admiration of their electorate as well those of us who are electorally disenfranchised. They have turned a once lawless city into (probably) the safest and best managed in the country and, like it or not, Roddy may be this country's best hope to return it to the tiger economy it once was.

 

To suggest that had Ellah Joy Pique been abducted and murdered in Davao rather than on Cebu, Berger might have been killed, is both monstrous and a distortion. The kidnapper shot in this case was armed with a gun and a hand-grenade.

 

 

 

Mark

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I don't know what happened on that last post why all the garbage is there

 

But let me tell you Davaolife I don't like your tone with me -

 

I don't deserve and you know it

 

Look at your OP where does it describe how the kidnapping took place if this new topic references an older topic - where is the the reference

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Davaoeno

I don't know what happened on that last post why all the garbage is there

 

But let me tell you Davaolife I don't like your tone with me -

 

I don't deserve and you know it

 

Look at your OP where does it describe how the kidnapping took place if this new topic references an older topic - where is the the reference

Well maybe my post was condescending- and if so i appologize for that. But your post was ridiculous ! Saying that Eric Berger would have been killed by Duterte - because a gun toting grenade throwing guy kidnapped a child at gun point and the police shot him ?? there is absolutely no comparison between the 2 and you know it-. I am very surprised that you would even say such an outrageous and inflammatory thing since usually you are very level headed and intelligent.

My tone was not aimed at you but rather your post !!!!!!

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Davaoeno

I don't know what happened on that last post why all the garbage is there

 

But let me tell you Davaolife I don't like your tone with me -

 

I don't deserve and you know it

 

Look at your OP where does it describe how the kidnapping took place if this new topic references an older topic - where is the the reference

 

post #16 of this thread

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Well maybe my post was condescending- and if so i appologize for that. But your post was ridiculous ! Saying that Eric Berger would have been killed by Duterte - because a gun toting grenade throwing guy kidnapped a child at gun point and the police shot him ?? there is absolutely no comparison between the 2 and you know it-. I am very surprised that you would even say such an outrageous and inflammatory thing since usually you are very level headed and intelligent.

My tone was not aimed at you but rather your post !!!!!!

 

Again where in your OP does it address that the kidnapping was at gun point - the only thing I can see even when I clicked on the article link was that one kidnapper was killed - nothing about hand grenades

 

PM or lets take down stairs

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broden

an argument, well strong words anyway, involving a Canadian and a Mid-Westerner

 

who'da thunk it

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Stranded Shipscook

Guenther - I wish you'd cease likening the Dutertes to long-dead facist European dictators, neither Roddy nor his daughter have anything in common with them. They enjoy the support, respect and admiration of their electorate as well those of us who are electorally disenfranchised. They have turned a once lawless city into (probably) the safest and best managed in the country and, like it or not, Roddy may be this country's best hope to return it to the tiger economy it once was.

 

To suggest that had Ellah Joy Pique been abducted and murdered in Davao rather than on Cebu, Berger might have been killed, is both monstrous and a distortion. The kidnapper shot in this case was armed with a gun and a hand-grenade.

 

 

 

Mark

Ok, your wish is my command. No more comparison to former situations.

How about International Charta of Human rights ? or the Philippine Constitution ? Or the Uk Constitution ?

 

Abolish them because the Politician/Police are not capable to tackle the problem ? Very doubtful, mate. Just because Duterte created an atmosphere of fear and a no go zone for criminals it does not mean, they will stay away forever. No, they will come back, better armed, smarter and better organised. And much more vicious.

Crime can no be fought with violence, it will only create greater violence, this is a fact.

 

(nb- i did not mention Berger with one word)

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Ok, your wish is my command. No more comparison to former situations.

How about International Charta of Human rights ? or the Philippine Constitution ? Or the Uk Constitution ?

 

Abolish them because the Politician/Police are not capable to tackle the problem ? Very doubtful, mate. Just because Duterte created an atmosphere of fear and a no go zone for criminals it does not mean, they will stay away forever. No, they will come back, better armed, smarter and better organised. And much more vicious.

Crime can no be fought with violence, it will only create greater violence, this is a fact.

 

 

Lots of sense in this......

 

I support Gunther in his thinking.

Edited by Kim_
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an argument, well strong words anyway, involving a Canadian and a Mid-Westerner

 

who'da thunk it

 

We handled it and we didn't use strong words - eh

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