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Mr. Mike

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RogerDuMond

Some good points but.............................Having grown up in a union family, and having worked in unions the first 20 years of my working life as a union member (Pulp & Paper Workers and Operating Engineers) I can safely say that very few times did I see three people doing the work that one should have been doing unless due to safety regulations imposed on us by OSHA. or by our company. This is a cop out used by corporations to move overseas, use cheap labor, not have to worry about workers safety, our environment and to make larger profits.

 

I am now management at a non-union company, I see everything being done here that I saw when I was in a union shop. The big difference is union workers for the most part are able to provide better for their families, have a voice in their future and have representation if they treated unjustly.

 

I think unions are like anything else, some bad and some are good. Saying unions is what drove manufacturers overseas is just not completely correct because government regulations has a hell of a lot to do with it too.

You may think it is a cop out and for some companies it may have been, but for others it was move or go out of business. As I said unions demands and refusal to negotiate in good faith was only one contributing factor to the mass exodus.

 

I worked for and retired from a non union company, Eastman Kodak.

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Mr. Mike

After my career in Uncle Sam's Navy I worked for two great companies. Tektronix, Beaverton Ore. and Hewlett Packard, Palo Alto CA. Both companies were non union and both had great management philosophies. There was never talk of unionizing in either company. The reason was simple. Employees were treated with respect, great benefits, high % profit sharing, stock options, on campus health clubs, liberal expense accounts, and free coffee, juice and donuts every morning. I never got a pay raise less than 8%, usually over 10%, and a few over 20%. From what I have heard Kodak was also very well managed! I spent the last ten years with HP in management, and I was very impressed with the care and concern HP had for every employee.

 

The point is, great management, and valued employees, make great companies.

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RogerDuMond

From what I have heard Kodak was also very well managed!

Kodak was a good company to work for. Over the years they made some very poor business decisions one of the main ones was Kodak Office Imaging division. Kodak has always been an excellent consumables manufacture but a poor equipment manufacturer. They put too much R&D and manufacturing capital into high end equipment while ignoring the home user.

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Cipro
Larry, Where do you get that union workers make $50 an hour to push a broom?????

 

$50 an hour???

Meant to be hyperbole more than likely, but I can give you a real world example. Veneer manufacturing plant in a small college town in Oregon, owned by a huge paper and wood product company. In 1993, guy sweeping floor gets $11 an hour, licensed journeyman electrician gets $16 an hour. When the company has trouble attracting good licensed electricians to cover all the shifts and all the work, they go to the union to propose a pay hike for electricians.

 

The union says fine, you can bump them the $3 you want as long as you bump everyone, including the floor sweeper, by $3 as well. When asked why, th response was "his time is just as valuable", which is obviously false but that's how union idiots think. A decade later the once-electrician has moved on and is making over $60 an hour, and the plant has long since closed.

 

Union, yes?

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fanboat

I know a union carpenter(works alot of school jobs)makes 45 bucks an hour....ownes several homes and is looking forward to a nice retirement income.

 

my other buddy has been working for a Ford dealership for 15 years(ford trucks)he figures he can work another 5 years before to old to work on trucks.....he looks forward to s.s. only :coffee:

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softail

This is a cut and past for the union representing the hourly worker at the Boeing Co. The benefits package includes $70 per year of service, generous medical, dental, sick leave, vacation, holiday pay, time and a half and double time for overtime etc. Now I wonder why companies are leaving the US for greener pastures.

 

 

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Doug

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shadow

I know a union carpenter(works alot of school jobs)makes 45 bucks an hour....ownes several homes and is looking forward to a nice retirement income.

 

my other buddy has been working for a Ford dealership for 15 years(ford trucks)he figures he can work another 5 years before to old to work on trucks.....he looks forward to s.s. only :closedeyes:

 

So from that would you agree a more level playing field needs to be applied?

 

LinD

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Mr. Mike

So from that would you agree a more level playing field needs to be applied?

 

LinD

What did you have in mind?

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Jess Bartone

The point is, great management, and valued employees, make great companies.

So true. If all employers cared about their company in its entirety there would be no need for unions. But what they see now is an opportunity to move on to fertile new exploitation grounds in 3rd world countries.

 

 

.....that's how union idiots think.....

 

and it's this kind of thinking from middle/upper management arse kissing lackey idiots that kills the whole deal... go to Asia and employ children and whomever else will work for peanuts and if any of them get killed or maimed who cares plenty more where they came from.

 

And if anyone complains about non-existent quality/service just blame the "idiot" blue collar workers back home who had the temerity, the utter audacity to think that just because they live in a 1st world country they should expect 1st world conditions.

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Jess Bartone

Now I wonder why companies are leaving the US for greener pastures.

 

Yeah like Qantas who shifted their maintenance offshore to Manila and have had nothing but explosions and near misses ever since. Their safety rating has plummeted from #1 to? in just a couple of years, but the management lackeys are still bleating that it was a good decision. The loyal customers are voting with their feet, i.e. walking to the opposition's counter, and all because management sought to fatten up their bonuses on an already bloated salary.

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Cipro
and it's this kind of thinking from middle/upper management arse kissing lackey idiots that kills the whole deal...

So you think a moron pushing a broom should be paid the same as a vascular surgeon?

 

A simple yes or no will suffice.

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tom_shor

So from that would you agree a more level playing field needs to be applied?

 

LinD

 

No it means the other guy should have been a Union Carpenter.

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Jess Bartone

So you think a moron pushing a broom should be paid the same as a vascular surgeon?

 

A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

The master of the loaded question graces the world with another gem.

 

Floors will always need to be swept. Surgeons live in the own self-created illusion when they are in fact extraneous... we're talking about real workers, not pampered fools of god-like status who capitalise on rich fools' penchant for a life of egocentric self indulgence. Oh yes it's ok for a fat 150kg management fool to eat enough for 20+ third world people and run his body down because the vascular surgeon will keep him alive.

 

So the question is ridiculous and pre-emptive of any logical answer.

 

Here's one for ya... do you think we should pay as much for a piece of fruit as for a twinkie or a hamburger?

 

A simple yes or no will suffice.

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Mandingo

So you think a moron pushing a broom should be paid the same as a vascular surgeon?

 

A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

No.

 

 

Where I work now we have "broom pushers" and they are a valuable part of our company and their job is a important one. Do they deserve to make as much a as technician or engineer? No they do not. They do deserve to make a living wage and have health care and a pension? Yes they do.

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tom_shor

The master of the loaded question graces the world with another gem.

 

Floors will always need to be swept. Surgeons live in the own self-created illusion when they are in fact extraneous... we're talking about real workers, not pampered fools of god-like status who capitalise on rich fools' penchant for a life of egocentric self indulgence. Oh yes it's ok for a fat 150kg management fool to eat enough for 20+ third world people and run his body down because the vascular surgeon will keep him alive.

 

So the question is ridiculous and pre-emptive of any logical answer.

 

Here's one for ya... do you think we should pay as much for a piece of fruit as for a twinkie or a hamburger?

 

A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

No

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