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Made in USA,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,again!


Mr. Mike

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Don't you think the man slaving at 10 bucks an hour should have medical and dental coverage? Or does that only belong to some?

 

It only belongs to some, those with the higher paychecks! Yes, the unions have done wonders in some respects, but there needs to be less distance between the union and non union workers. Obviously the non union workers cannot be paid the same as the union workers, because the country is already broke. So the only alternative is...

 

The unions need to take a hit to become closer to the wages and benefits of the non union workers. This overall would allow the wages and benefits of the non union workers to increase, all the while balancing out the haves/have nots scene, and making it possible for American manufacturers to compete with the rest of the world.

 

Larry in Dumaguete

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Mr. Mike

I'm not American, so I admit I cannot fully say what is really happening in the US, but I can give my beliefs...and I do hope you are right that the citizens of the US wake up and see whats going on. But it is my belief that too few have the spirit to rise up. And I'm not even talking about raising arms, or even just buying US products. People are just too freaking swamped with keeping their heads above water to care about anything else, yet at the same time they aren't starved enough to be forced to rise up. Its like frogs in the pot. What must be remembered is that it was the colonial elite that started the American revolution, the peasants were just able to be bought into it. But I don't think the US is far gone enough to have to revolt. The US government just needs some sort of real engagement from the REAL citizens of the USA. Plus the 2 party dictatorship needs to go. Here in Canada in the past 15 years we had the Progressive Conservatives (Republican clone) and the Liberals (the Democrat clone) basically destroyed. Sure they've been replaced somewhat with their own clones, but it sure does send a message to them that they can't just f* around. I hope the US follows that one day soon.

Good post sir! I believe the US has the guts and the courage to do what must be done to guarantee our freedom as we see it! I am concerned that the US citizen might not know when it is time to do so...............We are getting too complacent!

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Mandingo

Labor unions priced many companies out of manufacturing products in the US.

 

No, Chinese making a dollar a day did.

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It only belongs to some, those with the higher paychecks! Yes, the unions have done wonders in some respects, but there needs to be less distance between the union and non union workers. Obviously the non union workers cannot be paid the same as the union workers, because the country is already broke. So the only alternative is...

 

The unions need to take a hit to become closer to the wages and benefits of the non union workers. This overall would allow the wages and benefits of the non union workers to increase, all the while balancing out the haves/have nots scene, and making it possible for American manufacturers to compete with the rest of the world.

 

Larry in Dumaguete

 

Of course there should be parity among all workers. And workers should be treated fairly. Thats all. No more, no less. If that were the case there would never be a need for unions. So the alternative is???

 

Of course Unions need to wake up to reality and give concessions. You are only worth what you are worth, whether a single man, or an organized unit. But either way you should never be exploited. But I guarantee you that if I'm in the position to exploit I can exploit you a helluva a lot easier than one man. And as I said, just look at the Filipino job market if you think exploitation died in the 1800s. There's more than one blame on the manufacturing jobs than just the Unions.

 

And no, I don't believe that basic things such as BASIC dental and health care belong only to those with higher paychecks. Bigger cars, and bigger houses belong to those people.

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tom_shor

Don't you think the man slaving at 10 bucks an hour should have medical and dental coverage? Or does that only belong to some? I agree that Unions stepped their bounds, but they are not useless or completely redundant, unless you want EVERYONE to be slaving for 1 dollar an hour if they are lucky. Just look at the Filipino labour force for an example of how cruel things can be. But if you think that all business people in the US are benevolent to give a fair wage for equal work, then maybe you have a point.

 

Yes but when they have their high level negotiations look at the company execs then look at the union reps. If you don't know them can you tell them apart? Unions are big business.

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InternetTough

Now that everybody is in debt, who is going to fork over the extra cash to make this happen? People are used to cheap crap. They won't or can't pay extra for stuff that is equally as crap, crappier, or better. Forget about the cost of labour, how much would it cost just to move production and setup factories to make this work? This will either be passed on to consumers in the price of goods purchased or to the taxpayer via incentives to firms who actually do this.

 

Why also does the US (and Canada) allow Korean made cars into North America with such little tarrifs, but the reverse is not true? Meanwhile US military power is what is keeping their portion of the peninsula from being overrun by communists and from life straight out of the pages of 1984. fecking boggles my mind....

 

I think that the majority of Korean cars now being sold in the USA are made in US-based factories. They provide jobs for American workers.It is true that, for many years, the South Koreans were given unfair access to the US market because 1. It needed it, badly, as it was so poor and 2. It was a Cold War ally. Those conditions no longer apply. There is a free trade agreement floating in the political wind. The USA insisted on re-negotiating it after agreeing to an earlier version, but it still has not been mutually ratified.

 

The South Koreans are protected by the USA---but they provide the vast majority share of their conventional defence. The US nuclear umbrella is irreplaceable. Developing a South Korean capacity for a nuclear force with a second-strike capacity would be very expensive---and against the NPT----which the USA does not want South Korea to withdraw from. It would make it very difficult for South Korea to fuel its nuclear power plants.

 

I think that the USA should negotiate increased payments from South Korea for what it does for it. Any sudden, unilateral, essential change would be the betrayal of an ally.

Edited by InternetTough
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Good post sir! I believe the US has the guts and the courage to do what must be done to guarantee our freedom as we see it! I am concerned that the US citizen might not know when it is time to do so...............We are getting too complacent!

 

That is my entire point. We are all too complacent. I'm not even talking about being a gun toting weirdo. Just voting is one thing. How many people actually vote? And those who vote just vote on party lines, or what the guy looks like, or just their gut feeling. Not many actually vote on the real issues, because usually the REAL issues that affect citizens are hidden behind other useless messages, such as who that guy slept with, or other bs. Its just a distraction from the real issues and thats how they want it. People have to stop treating it like a soap opera and treating it like real life...because thats what it is!!!

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Yes but when they have their high level negotiations look at the company execs then look at the union reps. If you don't know them can you tell them apart? Unions are big business.

 

Union leaders are leeches, unions are not necessarily so. I am for union reform.

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I think that the majority of Korean cars now being sold in the USA are made in US-based factories. It is true that, for many years, the SOuth Koreans were given unfair access to the US market because it 1. needed it, badly, as it was so poor and 2. it was a Cold War ally.

 

The South Koreans are protected by the USA---but they provide the vast majority share of their conventional defence. The US nuclear umbrella is irreplaceable. Developing a South Korean capacity for a nuclear force with a second-strike capacity would be very expensive---and against the NPT----which the USA does not want South Korea to withdraw from. It would make it very difficult for South Korea to fuel its nuclear power plants.

 

I think that the USA should negotiate increased payments from South Korea for what it does for it. Any sudden, unilateral, essential change would be the betrayal of an ally.

 

Of course South Koreans provide the majority of the conventional defense, and as they should. The point is, at what cost, and for what reason is the US in Korea, when their aren't even any trade benefits? A nuclear deterrent? The North Koreans didn't even have nukes until a few years ago, and even so, a US presence in South Korea did not stop them from doing so. So then what? China? Japan is close enough....but anyhow, the point is, the Koreans don't even reciprocate with a fair trade deal, regardless of how many Korean vehicles are made in the US or not. Remember, every Chvey Aveo is made in Korea too ;)

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TheMatrix

American's standard of living would drop big-time! Currently, even poor Americans can still afford quality things at Wal-Mart because everything is made in China. Those same items would triple in price almost overnight and force the poor to go without. Their standard of living spiral to all-time lows!! We have been living good, for the most part, due to China being the World's Factory. We live high-quality lives as a result. I am sure that many of those on this forum remember the days where having a television was considered a luxury. Now days, televisions are expected to be in most rooms. (even the bathroom with line of site viewing from the bidet).

It would take many years for the economics to level out if you brought the jobs back home. Yes, wages would increase, but prices would increase several hundred percent more than wages!

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InternetTough

The US corporations, especially the BANKS are flush with money,,,,remember the bailout! There are factories/manufacturing facilities in the US sitting idle! Proud, hard working, skilled people are begging for jobs. Detroit is a freaking wasteland,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,BTW, at one time, Detroit was the most affluent city is the US. Bring back the jobs, suspend the existence/ formation of unions, for ten years. Let's see what happens.

 

BTW, our 35,000 (or so) military personnel in South Korea are but a token force,,,,,,,,if the balloon goes up, it will be ugly!

 

If unions are so terrible, why is Germany doing so well? It has a higher workforce unionization percentage than the US does, and its union reps sit on company boards.

 

If the USA made unions illegal, it would hurt its reputation for human rights very much.

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mpt1947

Well I find it interesting that you have put in a slam against the current Administration, but if I attempt to comment on your comment, I may be banned for getting political.

 

The prime motivation for any business, whether it be European, Asia, or US is to make money - make money for themselves and their Shareholders

 

So you suggest that if Consumers would belly up and spend more of what they don't have for products that may be less expensive coming from Asia, that would be a good start.

 

Getting rid of the unions for 10 years - thus allowing the businesses to pay less wages and less benefits would make it attractive for those companies to keep jobs in the US

 

So you are asking the Consumer to sacrifice and you are asking the Unions to sacrifice - where do the businesses sacrifice?

 

How about we make it more expensive for a company to move a call center to India or to Cebu City - tax the Sh*t out of them - but if you start a new call center in Detroit, or New Orleans, or some place in Ohio, you are given tax breaks and other incentives in opening a new business.

 

And if you are a company like Halliburton that moves your headquarters to another country to avoid paying taxes in the US - then I think we should Freeze their assets here in the US until they have paid their fare share in taxes

Sorry Mike - The solution to our economic problems is a three pronged fork - but I only see where two of the prongs are being asked to make a commitment

But what do I know - I am living in a country where I, today, get 43.55 pesos for every $1 I make...

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But what do I know - I am living in a country where I, today, get 43.55 pesos for every $1 I make...

 

Sorry but last time I was there, those 43.55 pesos were not much more worth than your 1 USD...so where are you winning on that equation? For example gasoline was 60 pesos/litre. How much is gas in the US? How much goods can 43.55 pesos buy? Not MUCH more in the Philippines....except for labour, and maybe then you'll see where everything is going. (Well you in the general sense, not you in particular)

Edited by AgentSmith
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InternetTough

Of course South Koreans provide the majority of the conventional defense, and as they should. The point is, at what cost, and for what reason is the US in Korea, when their aren't even any trade benefits? A nuclear deterrent? The North Koreans didn't even have nukes until a few years ago, and even so, a US presence in South Korea did not stop them from doing so. So then what? China? Japan is close enough....but anyhow, the point is, the Koreans don't even reciprocate with a fair trade deal, regardless of how many Korean vehicles are made in the US or not. Remember, every Chvey Aveo is made in Korea too ;)

 

"US military power is what is keeping that part of the world from being overrun by Communists." This was your original statement. I amended it to make it clear that the USA provides a minority share of the conventional defence of the South Korean portion of the peninsula. The USA did not originally come to Korea in search of trade benefits, and it is not staying here in search of trade benefits, either. It is a matter of maintaining the security of East Asia, which still needs the USA. Japan would be imperiled if North Korea, backed by China, took over South Korea---directly by military force, or indirectly by intimidation. You yourself admitted that the government of North Korea has a 1984 quality to it. Refusing to help South Korea and Japan to stand up to it, and its backer, China (not at all a democracy), would be more expensive than a loss of trade benefits.

 

 

The USA and South Korea have been trying to sign a free trade agreement for years now. The Koreans have been trying to be fair---they even agreed to renegotiate after having earlier secured US agreement on a deal to be sent to Congress.

 

If Americans did not buy Korean cars made in the USA, they would buy Japanese cars made in the USA. Detroit has been out-designed by the East Asian nations. It is not simply the unions. They make better designed cars, and they set the standard for quality of manufacture. There has been considerable CEO-level failure on the American side. Don't look for a huge increase in the number of American cars with large-displacement engines to be sold in South Korea if the FTA gets passed. South Koreans pay a lot for gas and have a very small country with very crowded roadways. Parking is hard to find. Parking on the sidewalk is a common sight. US-type cars are literally a poor fit. The South Korean tariffs aimed at US cars with large displacement engines were designed to net the South Koreans a small amount of money, not a fortune.

 

Many years ago, Walter Reuther offered to cooperate with Detroit auto execs to together campaign for a national health insurance plan for the USA. They weren't interested.Things were prosperous for the US car companies at the time. Now the US car companies are busy paying health care benefits to former workers. Reuther could look down the road a bit. How about those German companies with their union reps on their boards? Maybe the US companies could have profited from the increased brainpower of increased union participation in corporate decision-making!

Edited by InternetTough
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"US military power is what is keeping that part of the world from being overrun by Communists." This was your original statement. I amended it to make it clear that the USA provides a minority share of the conventional defence of the South Korean portion of the peninsula. The USA did not originally come to Korea in search of trade benefits, and it is not staying here in search of trade benefits, either. It is a matter of maintaining the security of East Asia, which still needs the USA. Japan would be imperiled if North Korea, backed by China, took over South Korea---directly by military force, or indirectly by intimidation. You yourself admitted that the government of North Korea has a 1984 quality to it. Refusing to help South Korea and Japan to stand up to it, and its backer, China (not at all a democracy), would be more expensive than a loss of trade benefits.

 

 

Tell me, just tell me what is the benefit of securing East Asia for America. What was the benefit of securing it in 1950 and what is the benefit now. China was nothing like it is now in 1950, so why go to war then? Do you honestly believe that trade, either directly or via influence was not the reason?? Then why? Another attack on Pearl Harbour from North Korea or China?

 

 

The USA and South Korea have been trying to sign a free trade agreement for years now. The Koreans have been trying to be fair---they even agreed to renegotiate after having earlier secured US agreement on a deal to be sent to Congress.

 

The pact was finalized December 2010. Nice. Only about 55 years since the Americans were in South Korea. Yes the Koreans were really trying to be fair all those years.

 

If Americans did not buy Korean cars made in the USA, they would buy Japanese cars made in the USA. Detroit has been out-designed by the East Asian nations. It is not simply the unions. They make better designed cars, and they set the standard for quality of manufacture. There has been considerable CEO-level failure on the American side.

 

No you are talking apples and oranges. Americans may have been outclassed by Japanese cars, although to some degree that's up for debate, and can be debated on a car enthusiast forum as the debate can be as hot as the abortion topic, the fact is that American cars were UNDERCUT by Korean cars. Not outclasses...UNDERCUT. That could NEVER happen in Korea even if Ford wanted to give their cars away for 1000 dollars in Korea. But in the US and Canada...sure, come and dump your cars here, no problem, just set up a factory in Alabama and all is good!!!. Where do the parts for this assembly plant come from? Mississippi? Ontario? Where?

 

Many years ago, Walter Reuther offered to cooperate with Detroit auto execs to together campaign for a national health insurance plan for the USA. They weren't interested.Things were prosperous for the US car companies at the time. Now the US car companies are busy paying health care benefits to former workers. Reuther could look down the road a bit. How about those German companies with their union reps on their boards? Maybe the US companies could have profited from the increased brainpower of increased union participation in corporate decision-making.

 

 

Well Germany has a national health care system so their Unions and Auto manufactures don't have to worry about the costs like their US counterparts do. Its something some Americans would like to shoot ( or see him shot) Obama over just for mentioning it. I won't get into that though.

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