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2 Swedes get life in prison


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Davaoeno

I hadnt read the actual law, but do find it hard to see any "trafficking" in the ordinary sense of the word.

 

Some women were paid (and apparently well paid) to work in a building in (perhaps) their own town to which they came and went voluntarily.

Millions of people do that every day, so that can not be "trafficking".

 

The law, and anyone else, may object to the actual work they were doing, but that is a different matter.

 

 

As for their "job", if showing their attributes was universally illegal, much of Hollywood and the international film industry would close down, and many beaches in the UK would be empty.

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately Alan, and I dont mean this as a criticism, the " ordinary sense of the word" is irrelevant in a criminal case. Just watch any case in court to see what I mean lol

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Davaoeno

I reckon we'd make a good team... you've got the spin and I've got the way with wordsbiggrin_01.gif

 

Look no offence to any Filipinos reading but they have been named the most prideful mean in Asia... well the Manila blokes have...

scroll down to #3

 

 

 

Jesse- i dont think the world is ready yet for a jesse-Davo duo !! And probably never will be !

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JamesMusslewhite

Flemming;

 

You are correct that the Swedes were the brains and the money behind this operation. But they are not the only ones that are guilty, their Filipino partners are just as guilty. They were the footwork. They were the recruiters of this crime. Just like how the RP continues to blame the West Africans for the drug mule trade, I say again it takes two to tango. Their Filipino partners willing agreed to be the pimps if you will of this operation and as such they are just as guilty and in my book even more so because they know first hand how desperate some of these girls are. And I I repeat in the case of the drug mules, 99% are as guilty as sin because they willingly take the $3k and dance a gig until they get caught and then they scream innocence and beg Aquino to make himself a puppet of whatever country they get busted in so that they don't get a needle in their arm.

 

 

You are right. I think they should all be head-shot with the same gun.

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Davaoeno

You are right. I think they should all be head-shot with the same gun.

 

 

James- where would we all be without your consistent law-and-order shoot first-then hang the survivors attitude ?? Is there no one that you dont think deserves the death penalty ?? lol I refuse to believe that your views are as hard and as one sided as you would have us believe .

 

I'm sure if one of the Swedes was your son you wouldnt be so fast to call for his exection ???

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spooks

This statement makes me curious what you think human trafficking is.

 

Refer UN definitions.

 

Some of the pasted items refer to such coercion in respect of marriage for bounty etc. This is to prevent Mail Order Brides. Sitting in front of a cam is not being a MOB.

 

The point is that there is no life sentence for running a cyber den as already pointed out, if it were the USA would be in default as it is legal there.

 

An expressed view was that pedaling p*orn merited such a life sentence,I suggested other wise.

 

Persons of legal age who freely choose to work are not Trafficked.

 

The ladies who traveled to CDO from across the other islands freely did so and were not coerced by the accused. The appeal may well show that they transferred form one cyber den to another as the money was better.

 

The appeal will be out soon

 

 

Sad to say, just being accused of human Trafficking means that this is non bailable.

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Davaoeno

This statement makes me curious what you think human trafficking is.

 

Refer UN definitions.

 

Some of the pasted items refer to such coercion in respect of marriage for bounty etc. This is to prevent Mail Order Brides. Sitting in front of a cam is not being a MOB.

 

The point is that there is no life sentence for running a cyber den as already pointed out, if it were the USA would be in default as it is legal there.

 

An expressed view was that pedaling p*orn merited such a life sentence,I suggested other wise.

 

Persons of legal age who freely choose to work are not Trafficked. "with or without the victim's consent" is how the first part of the act reads- altho it seems to contradict itself later on. Its not what I would call a precisely- or well- worded piece of legislation.

The ladies who traveled to CDO from across the other islands freely did so and were not coerced by the accused. The appeal may well show that they transferred form one cyber den to another as the money was better.

 

The appeal will be out soon

 

 

Sad to say, just being accused of human Trafficking means that this is non bailable.

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JamesMusslewhite

James- where would we all be without your consistent law-and-order shoot first-then hang the survivors attitude ?? Is there no one that you dont think deserves the death penalty ?? lol I refuse to believe that your views are as hard and as one sided as you would have us believe .

 

I'm sure if one of the Swedes was your son you wouldnt be so fast to call for his exection ???

 

Well with a hell of a lot less criminals, safer societies, and more honest governance for starter. Of course the current criminal-appeasement politically-correct feminized-male touchy-feely system currently in place is doing so well. Yes punish the bastards who deserve the punishment. Hard love method, hold individuals personally responsible for their actions. Sorry if that is just too manly of a notion for you.

 

If it were my son, your son, or another man's son does not fecking matter. If you do a criminal act, and get you ignorant ass caught, then one must face the punishment for that action. Yes I would give much harder sentences. Either try to stop the downward social spiral or just bend over like a spineless victim and take it like a bitch.

 

Silly question, Knowing that the punishment of "LIFE" for this crime, would you open a sex-den? And if you did after knowing, then you deserve even a harsher sentence? Death is simple to understand, Do this and you can die. So simple even simpletons can understand it. Well most simpletons anyways, some simpletons just will never understand it. Too many moving parts I guess. :thats-funny:

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smokey

Well with a hell of a lot less criminals, safer societies, and more honest governance for starter. Of course the current criminal-appeasement politically-correct feminized-male touchy-feely system currently in place is doing so well. Yes punish the bastards who deserve the punishment. Hard love method, hold individuals personally responsible for their actions. Sorry if that is just too manly of a notion for you.

 

If it were my son, your son, or another man's son does not fecking matter. If you do a criminal act, and get you ignorant ass caught, then one must face the punishment for that action. Yes I would give much harder sentences. Either try to stop the downward social spiral or just bend over like a spineless victim and take it like a bitch.

 

Silly question, Knowing that the punishment of "LIFE" for this crime, would you open a sex-den? And if you did after knowing, then you deserve even a harsher sentence? Death is simple to understand, Do this and you can die. So simple even simpletons can understand it. Well most simpletons anyways, some simpletons just will never understand it. Too many moving parts I guess. :thats-funny:

 

 

 

 

 

james why is it the locals cry when its their citz. getting harsh treatment... you would think when they put to death the 3 drug mules the philippines would of been happy to get rid of the drug mules seems they like to dish out harsh treatment but dont like being on the receiving end.. i think they waste time with these drug trials just stand them up and bam... over maybe sell tickets like pay per view and use the money for drug rehab

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JamesMusslewhite

james why is it the locals cry when its their citz. getting harsh treatment... you would think when they put to death the 3 drug mules the philippines would of been happy to get rid of the drug mules seems they like to dish out harsh treatment but dont like being on the receiving end.. i think they waste time with these drug trials just stand them up and bam... over maybe sell tickets like pay per view and use the money for drug rehab

Because it has power. Activist seek power from it, supporters seek power from it, lawyers seek it's power and the money it generates. Politicians seek their power and the monies generated from it. Me I see the simple solution, kill the criminal bastards and just be done with it. Activist will just have to live with it, supporters will fear it, Politicians realize they can be equally punished. You chose, you play, you pay. Why should I have to pay to support or rehabilitate a criminal? Why is it societies obligation to treat the criminal as if they are a special citizen? They are criminals and therefor be treated accordingly.

 

Charge them, trial them, prosecute them, and then punish them. Make him an example for the next little criminal want-a-be coming up the pike.

 

If these boys are proven guilty, then give them "LIFE", because it does little good to give them "DOUBLE LIFE" or "TRIPLE LIFE", But if socity exocutes the criminals for certain crimes, it has an impact. One is fewer repeat offenders, criminals understand the severity of their continued actions, less expenses will be burdened on the citizenry, and the lawyers do not get to manipulate or milk the system.

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RogerDuMond

Unfortunately Alan, and I dont mean this as a criticism, the " ordinary sense of the word" is irrelevant in a criminal case. Just watch any case in court to see what I mean lol

The point that you don't seem to understand Ian is that your pontification about what the wording of Philippine law means and as to whether Philippine law is just is also irrelevant. Their government wrote the law, their courts interpret the law, and you aren't going to be consulted for your opinion.

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smokey

Because it has power. Activist seek power from it, supporters seek power from it, lawyers seek it's power and the money it generates. Politicians seek their power and the monies generated from it. Me I see the simple solution, kill the criminal bastards and just be done with it. Activist will just have to live with it, supporters will fear it, Politicians realize they can be equally punished. You chose, you play, you pay. Why should I have to pay to support or rehabilitate a criminal? Why is it societies obligation to treat the criminal as if they are a special citizen? They are criminals and therefor be treated accordingly.

 

Charge them, trial them, prosecute them, and then punish them. Make him an example for the next little criminal want-a-be coming up the pike.

 

If these boys are proven guilty, then give them "LIFE", because it does little good to give them "DOUBLE LIFE" or "TRIPLE LIFE", But if socity exocutes the criminals for certain crimes, it has an impact. One is fewer repeat offenders, criminals understand the severity of their continued actions, less expenses will be burdened on the citizenry, and the lawyers do not get to manipulate or milk the system.

 

 

 

 

i see your of the mind nuke them all and let God sort it out.... Not everything is black and white.. sometimes there is some gray in there... i agree punish the two cyber sex guys but also punish the owners of the bars that have hookers .. the police and potiticans who own or protect these place dont just punish a token guy .. so these clowns get life for allowing women to show themselves naked on the internet yet bar owner go way past showing .. . go to a bar in manila and in the vip room there is anything goes but yet no punishment for these guys who use women .. hummmm if punishment is not equal it has no meaning

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Jess Bartone

i see your of the mind nuke them all and let God sort it out.... Not everything is black and white.. sometimes there is some gray in there... i agree punish the two cyber sex guys but also punish the owners of the bars that have hookers .. the police and potiticans who own or protect these place dont just punish a token guy .. so these clowns get life for allowing women to show themselves naked on the internet yet bar owner go way past showing .. . go to a bar in manila and in the vip room there is anything goes but yet no punishment for these guys who use women .. hummmm if punishment is not equal it has no meaning

 

I can see where James is coming from but I think you have a better take on this Robert. I said it earlier but I will reiterate... given that the women are of age... I see it as them turning the tables on the sex-starved perverts and for once the women are exploiting the men. I don't have to like that sex seems to dominate the consciousness of the world LET ALONE THE INTERNET, but I would far rather that these women are safe in the "den" than getting humped incessantly by whomever comes along with no pity or by-your-leave, and making relatively good money. Sure it is degrading to have to support a family this way, but 15k in the location is a lot more than many university graduates make, and far better than to expose themselves to physical danger (beatings, STD's) than to just lecherous eyes through an electronic medium. I fear that now those 15 or 17 women will now, being out of "work", turn to the physical side of the sex industry. My moral side says "no", but my pragmatic side says "yes", and after all. without a social security net (that most of us from the west take for granted), having a steady income in the Philippines is paramount.

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JamesMusslewhite

i see your of the mind nuke them all and let God sort it out.... Not everything is black and white.. sometimes there is some gray in there... i agree punish the two cyber sex guys but also punish the owners of the bars that have hookers .. the police and potiticans who own or protect these place dont just punish a token guy .. so these clowns get life for allowing women to show themselves naked on the internet yet bar owner go way past showing .. . go to a bar in manila and in the vip room there is anything goes but yet no punishment for these guys who use women .. hummmm if punishment is not equal it has no meaning

 

I have little time for the Gray area or those that wish to engage in criminal acts. These boys knew what they were doing was wrong, so I am not going to cry for them or sit and listen to their excuses. "Oh Boo-Hoo, my daddy did not hug me enough." "My mother dressed me funny as a child." "I'm not responsible for my actions!" It is all bull-shit. If innocent? I wish them well. If guilty? they can go to hell as far as I am concern. I will lose no sleep over the demise of a criminal. Use them as an example and throw the full weight of the law and punishment, they after all earned it.

 

I have little respect for anyone that engages in or supports the sex trades. The sleazy club owners, pimps, crooked cops, officials, politicians will have little support from me. Despicable, detestable low-life exploiters? I have less respect for them than I would have for a common dog or pig.

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smokey

I have little time for the Gray area or those that wish to engage in criminal acts. These boys knew what they were doing was wrong, so I am not going to cry for them or sit and listen to their excuses. "Oh Boo-Hoo, my daddy did not hug me enough." "My mother dressed me funny as a child." "I'm not responsible for my actions!" It is all bull-shit. If innocent? I wish them well. If guilty? they can go to hell as far as I am concern. I will lose no sleep over the demise of a criminal. Use them as an example and throw the full weight of the law and punishment, they after all earned it.

 

I have little respect for anyone that engages in or supports the sex trades. The sleazy club owners, pimps, crooked cops, officials, politicians will have little support from me. Despicable, detestable low-life exploiters? I have less respect for them than I would have for a common dog or pig.

 

 

 

 

And james i can see and understand your thoughts on this matter but why ONLY these two on a scale of 1/10 with 10 being a rapist and womem beater i would say these guys are a 6 but i and everyone else KNOWS where there are 8 and 9s but who do much more damage to women and children but they are not punished and its for that reason alone i dont think the sentence is fair..

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Stranded Shipscook

This is adressed to James and all others callers for death penalty of lifetime sentences. (I include the Rep.of the Philippines and the USA, which they simply copy, in it too.)

 

The punishments severity is not preventing ANY crimes at all, this is proven by history throughout the ages of mankind as well as empirically in modern science.

 

The argument, that a person can not commit a crime after being executed, may be correct, but this does not prevent others to do the same crime.

 

Analyze crime and the reasons why people commit them and then change the reasons. Punishment doesn't do any good, EXCEPT as in the Islamic Shariah law. but even there, the punishment of thieves is amputation, other minor violations will be public flogging or other embarrassing methods involving the social "outcasting" of criminals.

Looking at the crimerate in Islamic countries, the results are very promising, are they not ?

Then we should adopt that system worldwide, should we not ? Oops, can not, muslems are enemies, right ? end of sarcasm not..

 

Now honestly, the only successful system in the world is in the Benelux, Scandinavia, Germany and some other northern European nations- namely the resozialisation system with very low sentences but very intense social education and reintegration of the culprits.

All other systems are simply BARBARIC.

Can't afford ?

I would not say so, instead of spending giant amounts to keep criminals "indoors", feed them, control them with all those riot trained armed guards and so on, one could spend the money for social workers.

 

But thats another thread, maybe i post it later.

 

Bottom line, modern 21st century societies should not use 4000 year old methods to control the unfortunate members of their society. That is even provided in their ethical (religion) and constitutional bylaws. Murder is a crime, right ? So we simply can not commit it either.

 

Now in the case of the 2 swedes, the case will go up 2 more instances,and if they are willing to cooperate, meaning, they give all their 'ill aquired" wealth to the Philippines, including any asset they have abroad, they may get out with a bit of a lesson learned.

The Philippines are a few millions richer* and the Swedish social security system has 2 guys more to care for a while.

No problems..just look at the big picture.

If they got nothing, they got a problem, but its not ours ! After all, this is ASIA and anybody who has not realized that its stone cold and granite hard here, lives with rose colored glasses (an attribute some people always give to me, if they just knew...:D )

 

* The argument, that the money ends in the pockets of corrupt people does not fully count for me, since they will spend the money again mostly i the Philippines and to aquire our export products, they might even buy a VOLVO SUV. Pinoys have a kind of incredible sense of humor sometimes. :any-help:

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