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2 Swedes get life in prison


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Alan S

I read elsewhere that they were "coerced" into doing it by the payment of $350 a month.

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RogerDuMond

It might be semantics, but how on earth could those Filipinas been exploited? Were they forced to do what they did? Maybe, but then who in the first place forced them to work in this line? Not the poverty which has not been created by the Swedes?

 

And how about the Filipino pimps? The judge forgot to mention about discouraging them.

Seems to me that a twenty year sentence without the possibility of parole might be discouraging. :closedeyes:

 

It may be Philippines law, but the laws are badly written. Its bad law to have a rule that is broken by thousands with impunity, and then severely imposed from time to make an example.

You mean like laws against speeding?

 

The judge clearly stated that these two men were being made examples of to discourage other foreigners from exploiting Filipinas. The Philippines is on a U.S. watch list for human trafficking. If it's position on that list deteriorates sanctions could go into effect. THAT'S the reason these two young men's lives got thrown away. Some high level politician is afraid that his foreign AID might be affected.

I would assume that they were aware of the law before they started, if not they are idiots, so they threw their own lives away.

 

None of us here is about to change things in any country one iota- but its thru expressing our outrage that awareness is raised.

How is that working for you?

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InternetTough

In some Muslim countries, they chop off hands for theft. The handless ones, no doubt, know the law before they steal. In Merry Old Englande they might hang a boy for stealing an apple---didn't he know not to steal? In Nazi Germany, everything done against the Jews was legal, according to the laws on the books. Well, the law is the Law.

 

On the other hand, Gandhi broke technical laws right and left---so did Martin Luther King.

 

In California, there was the Pizza Robber Case. A man with two felony convictions was drunk at the beach. He approached some boys who had a pizza and ordered them to give him a slice. They did, because they were afraid of him. They complained to a policeman. The Pizza Robber was arrested---and because of technical law---force (or fear of force)+robbery+two felony priors= 25 years to life imprisonment! In California at the time, three strikes and you were out. Technical law can be a donkey.

 

I remember discussing this with a store security officer---a real cop wanna-be at my place of employment. He thought that it was a just sentence!

 

Good grief! Luckily, even in California, there is (or was) a residue of COMMON SENSE and, after serving six years in prison (all the while thinking that he was there for good) he got released because of the public clamor.

 

 

Since the Philippines has no death penalty at present, the two Swedes could not have received a more severe sentence if they had killed the girls.

 

The sentence is obviously wrong.

Edited by InternetTough
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SkyMan

In California, there was the Pizza Robber Case. A man with two felony convictions was drunk at the beach. He approached some boys who had a pizza and ordered them to give him a slice. They did, because they were afraid of him. They complained to a policeman. The Pizza Robber was arrested---and because of technical law---force (or fear of force)+robbery+two felony priors= 25 years to life imprisonment! In California at the time, three strikes and you were out. Technical law can be a donkey.

 

I remember discussing this with a store security officer---a real cop wanna-be at my place of employment. He thought that it was a just sentence!

 

Good grief! Luckily, even in California, there is (or was) a residue of COMMON SENSE and, after serving six years in prison (all the while thinking that he was there for good) he got released because of the public clamor.

Can't say as I'd have a problem with that one. He obviously hadn't learned about law from the previous 2 convictions so yeah, I'm ok with him getting 25 to life. My guess is that in the time of his 2 priors he probably had a few other things he got away with. Karma's a bugger sometimes. I've heard statistics that the average US driver speeds over 5000 before getting a ticket and I think that's probably low. And what's he done since? A model of society I'm sure.

 

As for the Swedes and being of Swedish decent I'd say their sentence was harsh but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Maybe it will persuade the next dozen p*orn peddlers from coming here.

Edited by SkyMan
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InternetTough

Can't say as I'd have a problem with that one. He obviously hadn't learned about law from the previous 2 convictions so yeah, I'm ok with him getting 25 to life. My guess is that in the time of his 2 priors he probably had a few other things he got away with. Karma's a bugger sometimes. I've heard statistics that the average US driver speeds over 5000 before getting a ticket and I think that's probably low. And what's he done since? A model of society I'm sure.

 

As for the Swedes and being of Swedish decent I'd say their sentence was harsh but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Maybe it will persuade the next dozen p*orn peddlers from coming here.

 

Let's send everyone to prison on the basis of what we "just know" they did between the times they were actually caught doing something wrong. That is one way to solve non-prison overcrowding.

 

He was just being an obnoxious drunk on the beach. Many members of this forum tell stories of misbehaver at least as great.

 

25 years to life? Where is the sense of proportionality in either that case or the topic case?

 

"Mistrust those in whom the urge to punish is strong."

-----Nietzsche (on one of his good days)

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Danishman

"Filipinos var den Mastermind ".... WTF .....

 

I must regret having used the word "ring leader", apparently caused you to drop your pacifier in a Carabao shit. You should probably not put the pacifier in your mouth again .....:kissass:

 

Well .... joking aside ...

 

If ordinary freely available information from various Swedish sites are credible, it appears that one of those convicted Swedish in this case for many years has operated various p*orn sites. He has also been the owner of a "telemarketing" company, which several times in the Swedish media is described as "fraud company" - sending fictitious telephone bills to random people and companies etc.

This same person / owner / company had also previously been convicted of tax fraud in Sweden. This company has gone bankrupt.

According to that unconfirmed sources of information, this Swedish person some years ago have departed from Sweden to Thailand where he should have booted one in Sweden known p*orn site, and several other companies of unknown nature.

It is reported also that this person is (was) a multimillionaire.

 

So WTF .... who talks about Filipino pimps ..... even though you might think the 2 Swedish came from a scout camp in Thailand, where they learned to tie knots and make fire the old fashioned way, so it fits better into your image of it was 2 tourists who came to the Philippines only to dive after the colorful fish and corals.

 

Live simply on in your locked picture of all foreigners in the philippines is hunted, lawless people.

The problem is that you in your generalization here has used a completely wrong example.

To a Swedish newspaper, the same Swede previously stated that he met his "business associate" at a bar in Thailand, where it was agreed to start a cypersex business in philippines and that he did not know that such business is illegal in the Philippines.

 

I hope you can at least try to explain to me why the 2 Swedes definitely needed a Filipino pimp / mastermind or WTF ...... oh yes .... now I understand ...... they lost all their past record of business experience at scout camp in Thailand and of course had to use a ringlea ....... sorry filipino pimp.:bashtroll:

 

Wtf does ringleader mean? And who has come up with the idea that the 2 foreigners were any kind of leaders in this one? Well, maybe they knew how to make a website. If you try to find a Filipino to make a website for you, its a pain in the ass. And if they make, they all look alike, you know what I mean: the typical dysfunctional, ugly websites with photos like a thumbnail.

 

So how they started this "venture"? They had the idea and started to walk around and ask people "hey dong, don't you know some minor pussies, we could show them for money?" Or what? They would have ended up in jail before they could setup a PC.

I am certain that the masterminds were Filipinos, then they approached the foreigners to join "forces". They could be well involved in the minor girl business before in the brick and mortar sort of that business, if you get what I mean.

 

On the other hand, you can find a ton of cybersex den run solely by Filipinos but interestingly there is no news about raiding them. Cyber sex is illegal here regardless the age of the girls. But underage combined with foreigners is a big fecking bang for the public.

Don't misunderstand me. If one playing with minors anyhow, just rot in hell. Foreigner and Filipino alike. What made me write this rant is the usual pro-Filipino and anti-foreigner approach which can be seen more and more frequently these days.

Btw I don;t think the foreigners had more than 40% cut from this - just like in any other business. They were 5 of them. 20% each. Do the maths. Ringleaders.... wtf...?!

 

 

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tom_shor

Just like the death sentence for Pedofiles, it seems to have no effect on them....

 

Well it certainly has an effect on the ones it is carried out on. ( They never do it again) If his buddys don't get the message there is plenty of rope for them too.

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Alan S

I can see some merit in both / all sides of the argument.

 

If one assumes that all crimes are not of equal seriousness, than one would have to rank them in some sort of order, and assign a sentence based upon that ranking.

 

Say, 1 for murder, down to, perhaps 20, for... whatever one feels is a minor crime.

 

The problem then is that there are degrees of seriousness within each of those crimes.

 

Take the simple one of speeding in a car.

 

I got one speeding ticket for exceeding the limit (of 30mph) by 4 mph. It was around 4.30 am, on a bright clear summer morning when there was zero traffic around.

However, to the machine that took the photograph the state of the road, or other traffic, was immaterial.

But, whilst an offence, it wasnt dangerous.

 

On the other hand, we see cases where people do, say, 180mph (the limit is 70) or 50+ outside schools when children are coming out, etc. All cases where there is a risk of harm to people.

 

If you say "all speeding is ranked at 18" then it doesnt allow for the extremes.

 

IN the case of the two Swedes, (and for the purpose of this post I shall ignore the post by Danishman),from seeing the results in other cases, it appears that one can receive a lesser sentence for killing someone, than for taking pictures of them naked, and that must surely raise some questions.

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tom_shor

well someone possibly took advantage of someone- or not ! If they were of the age of consent I do NOT think any crime was committed ! Willing employer, willing employee. Pls dont try to impose your morality on others.

 

 

Unfortunately if it is against the law a crime is committed whether we agree with the law or not is irrelevent.

 

It does seem odd that they consider cybersex a greater exploitation than actually selling women for real sex. Go figure.

 

 

 

Thanks- will do.. I havent looked at it before

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digiteye

"Filipinos var den Mastermind ".... WTF .....

 

I must regret having used the word "ring leader", apparently caused you to drop your pacifier in a Carabao shit. You should probably not put the pacifier in your mouth again .....

 

Well .... joking aside ...

 

If ordinary freely available information from various Swedish sites are credible, it appears that one of those convicted Swedish in this case for many years has operated various p*orn sites. He has also been the owner of a "telemarketing" company, which several times in the Swedish media is described as "fraud company" - sending fictitious telephone bills to random people and companies etc.

This same person / owner / company had also previously been convicted of tax fraud in Sweden. This company has gone bankrupt.

According to that unconfirmed sources of information, this Swedish person some years ago have departed from Sweden to Thailand where he should have booted one in Sweden known p*orn site, and several other companies of unknown nature.

It is reported also that this person is (was) a multimillionaire.

 

So WTF .... who talks about Filipino pimps ..... even though you might think the 2 Swedish came from a scout camp in Thailand, where they learned to tie knots and make fire the old fashioned way, so it fits better into your image of it was 2 tourists who came to the Philippines only to dive after the colorful fish and corals.

 

Live simply on in your locked picture of all foreigners in the philippines is hunted, lawless people.

The problem is that you in your generalization here has used a completely wrong example.

To a Swedish newspaper, the same Swede previously stated that he met his "business associate" at a bar in Thailand, where it was agreed to start a cypersex business in philippines and that he did not know that such business is illegal in the Philippines.

 

I hope you can at least try to explain to me why the 2 Swedes definitely needed a Filipino pimp / mastermind or WTF ...... oh yes .... now I understand ...... they lost all their past record of business experience at scout camp in Thailand and of course had to use a ringlea ....... sorry filipino pimp

 

First off I don't have to explain to you anything. You got a "thanks" from me because you have some sense of humor. Other than that you explained everything to your own questions.

 

Second. I do not speak Swedish, let alone having access to Swedish newspapers. I summarize below my points so you could understand.

 

Based on the media info from the posted links I criticized the biased approach of the judge with regard to foreigners and Filipinos and the extent of the sentence given. I have also pointed out similarities to certain recent events, where e.g. a Norwegian was arrested based on BS evidence in the anti-foreigner fury. And as always, the usual underage motive has also emerged even though it was not the case. These are good for nothing but to make us all (innocent foreigners) look bad. If you want to be considered the same as perverts, sex industry experts and pedophiles, just applaud all these anti-foreigner moves, instead of voicing that there is an ever growing generalization in the public generated by the media.

 

Then: if someone is a multimillionaire, why on earth ends up running cyber den in Mindanao, which by all means could be lucrative, but definitely is not worth the risk of being caught and losing the millions? Now - to stay with your example, these Swedes were obviously boy scouts, if they have never thought of those risks. Also if they never thought of this activity was illegal - as you quoted from that article.

That's an obvious bullshit, they knew what they were doing.

Now if the guy met his "business associate" (the other Swede I assume) in a bar in Thailand, where do you think he met his Filipino business associates in Mindanao? At the Sunday mass?

 

Do you really think foreigners come to this country and even with all the hard core experience in their resume they can start up any kind of prostitution related business? And the local clans would just watch them with happy smile on their face? Or do you think they placed public ads to recruit the girls and the involved Filipinos were only house helpers who made tea for the girls, wiped off the monitors time to time and aired the rooms after the shifts?

So in summary the Filipinos were not pimps at all, they were also "exploited" (how I love this word, good Lord) and basically they were innocent?

 

Because if you want to believe that, I think you will have to look around in the boy scout camp and find a tent for yourself.

 

Two Swedes from the p*orn business met 3 Filipino gangsters and they ran the show together, thats all. They are all gangsters just for some reason we don't know much about the history of the Filipinos. How biased is that?

 

I hope with telling the story of the tax evasion, frauds and what not you don't want to imply that the Pinoy judge rightfully calculated all the past wrong doings of the Swedes into the sentence? Well, actually he might. After all this is the Philippines.

Edited by digiteye
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True.

 

It's a political sentence.

 

It may be Philippines law, but the laws are badly written. Its bad law to have a rule that is broken by thousands with impunity, and then severely imposed from time to make an example.

As is often the case, Shakespeare said it better than most;

 

'We have strict statutes and most biting laws.

The needful bits and curbs to headstrong weeds,

Which for this nineteen years we have let slip;

Even like an o'ergrown lion in a cave,

That goes not out to prey.

Now, as fond fathers,

Having bound up the threatening twigs of birch,

Only to stick it in their children's sight

For terror, not to use, in time the rod

Becomes more mock'd than fear'd; so our decrees,

Dead to infliction, to themselves are dead;

 

'twas my fault to give the people scope,

'Twould be my tyranny to strike and gall them

For what I bid them do:'

Measure For Measure, Act 1, Scene 3

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tom_shor

I can see some merit in both / all sides of the argument.

 

If one assumes that all crimes are not of equal seriousness, than one would have to rank them in some sort of order, and assign a sentence based upon that ranking.

 

Say, 1 for murder, down to, perhaps 20, for... whatever one feels is a minor crime.

 

The problem then is that there are degrees of seriousness within each of those crimes.

 

Take the simple one of speeding in a car.

 

I got one speeding ticket for exceeding the limit (of 30mph) by 4 mph. It was around 4.30 am, on a bright clear summer morning when there was zero traffic around.

However, to the machine that took the photograph the state of the road, or other traffic, was immaterial.

But, whilst an offence, it wasnt dangerous.

 

On the other hand, we see cases where people do, say, 180mph (the limit is 70) or 50+ outside schools when children are coming out, etc. All cases where there is a risk of harm to people.

 

If you say "all speeding is ranked at 18" then it doesnt allow for the extremes.

 

IN the case of the two Swedes, (and for the purpose of this post I shall ignore the post by Danishman),from seeing the results in other cases, it appears that one can receive a lesser sentence for killing someone, than for taking pictures of them naked, and that must surely raise some questions.

 

Bright clear sunny day? Aren't you in England? :bashtroll:

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Cipro

Regardless of age, these men took advantage of woman with the inticement of money. Do I believe a life sentence is warranted...no.

I read elsewhere that they were "coerced" into doing it by the payment of $350 a month.

 

Yeeah. In other news, my employers have enticed me to all sorts of things I would never have done, particularly when I was younger and had shitty jobs. What is the statute of limitations like for that?

 

 

 

 

Plus the fact that they do not have to get humped but any Tom Dick or Harry. Didn't I read some of them were virgins? I can see nothing wrong with this, in fact in a broad sense it is the women exploiting the chook feeders.

 

You make a few fine points there.

 

 

 

 

When I was still single I got chatting with a lady from CDO... she said she was in a "private room" in the net cafe, and could show me anything I wanted to see... but the catch was the private room was very expensive so could I send her some money?

 

I've had that experience. Also, chat a little, and then next thing I know she sends me a ZIP without explanation. Inside ... naked pics of herself. This one was a variation on the old Hari Krishna theme, where they "give" you a gift, then pause, then ask for a donation. She got me for 1000 pesos and I bid her good day.

 

I've also met women on DIA or YM and after chatting a while, I get a cam invite. Surprise! They are sitting there in their underware trying to drum up customers, probably in a den much like the one that got busted. They are just comfortable enough to invite me to see their cam with no strings, and of course they immediately want to see mine as well. Curious as to what's on my end I guess.

 

In fact, I count several of these women among my long term friends now. Several of them have asked me to "start a studio" so they could come work for me. I declined but it's a little ironic; who was the ringleader in that hypothetical little venture? My new nickname coulda been "Swede". Also, yes, several of them insist they are virgins and I believe it.

 

 

 

 

Altzheimer's kicked in.

 

Well the filly/mare state of the women in question was never actually reported, I think your guess is as good as anyones.

 

 

 

 

Lifetime......? Thats just ridiculous...

And the Philippines thought it was wrong when China executed the 3 filipinos/as for drug smuggling.....

 

Nice point.

 

 

 

 

I absolutely agree that if you go somewhere - and break their laws- that you have to accept the consequences. However- it doesnt mean i have to agree with those consequences. None of us here is about to change things in any country one iota- but its thru expressing our outrage that awareness is raised.

Nothing wrong with having an ethical and moral discussion brother.

It might be semantics, but how on earth could those Filipinas been exploited? Were they forced to do what they did? Maybe, but then who in the first place forced them to work in this line? Not the poverty which has not been created by the Swedes?

 

All fine points well made.

 

 

 

 

In Nazi Germany, everything done against the Jews was legal, according to the laws on the books. Well, the law is the Law.

 

On the other hand, Gandhi broke technical laws right and left---so did Martin Luther King.

 

Godwin'ed and a good point at the same time. It's almost art.

Edited by locktite
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Danishman

Sorry, but English language is not my native language and you recognize that I am a little rusty in this area. I do not expect you to be able to read / understand Swedish.

 

Thanks for a well written and well argued reply - and it's not a joke.

It harms no one with a good debate.

 

My remarks in this debate is only to counter arguments against your allegations of improper difference in judgments between the two Swedes and the 3-4 Filipinos convicted in the case.

I will in no way try to justify insanely long sentences for cases where all "entrants " have participated voluntarily and NO minor has been involved, as I hate corruption at all levels. I have nothing left for lousy police work either. I myself have worked in the Danish police for 30 years.

 

You doubt that a millionaire or ex-millionaire would embark on a new shady business despite the risk. There, are you serious mistake - I have many many times seen similar examples both performed here in Denmark but also in other countries.

These are all because of greed, the excitement and not least in some cases some pressure from such criminals. Once involved in shady affairs can often be difficult to step out and start a normal life. Greed and money have taken power whatever they run a risk for even long prison sentences.

 

About the current case.

Both Swedes met - according to its own information to the Swedish newspaper - their Philippine business relationship (nothing mentioned about the nationality) in a bar in Patong, Thailand, where they all 3 agreed to start a Cybersex firm. It was by their own admission, merely to the 2 Swedes should provide technical assistance to "the company"in the philippines.

 

You wonder how or why 2 young millionaires or ex-millionaires should be the mastermind in this case. Try turning it 180 degrees - for me it would be more odd if 2 millionaires, with an already existing p*orn site, long-standing expertise and with a somewhat "gray" past in Sweden, were to suddenly come to the Philippines to "only" to provide technical assistance. I do not buy it.

 

Whether the 2 Swedes' statements about the meeting with a "business associate"in Thailand is correct or not does not change that of course they have had accomplices Filipinos there in Philippines.

 

BUT - if the 2 Swedes have financed all - or most of the "business ", and contributed to an existing website, customer share, and probably also conceded most of the revenue, they have put themselves safe and sound in "Mastermind" chair.

And that is whether Filipino accomplices have given rooms and women available for "project" and what they have earned.

 

Ofcourse there is a lot of "if" in this case, but this was my opinion.

 

Salamat sa laban.:bashtroll:

 

Regards

 

Flemming

 

First off I don't have to explain to you anything. You got a "thanks" from me because you have some sense of humor. Other than that you explained everything to your own questions.

 

Second. I do not speak Swedish, let alone having access to Swedish newspapers. I summarize below my points so you could understand.

 

Based on the media info from the posted links I criticized the biased approach of the judge with regard to foreigners and Filipinos and the extent of the sentence given. I have also pointed out similarities to certain recent events, where e.g. a Norwegian was arrested based on BS evidence in the anti-foreigner fury. And as always, the usual underage motive has also emerged even though it was not the case. These are good for nothing but to make us all (innocent foreigners) look bad. If you want to be considered the same as perverts, sex industry experts and pedophiles, just applaud all these anti-foreigner moves, instead of voicing that there is an ever growing generalization in the public generated by the media.

 

Then: if someone is a multimillionaire, why on earth ends up running cyber den in Mindanao, which by all means could be lucrative, but definitely is not worth the risk of being caught and losing the millions? Now - to stay with your example, these Swedes were obviously boy scouts, if they have never thought of those risks. Also if they never thought of this activity was illegal - as you quoted from that article.

That's an obvious bullshit, they knew what they were doing.

Now if the guy met his "business associate" (the other Swede I assume) in a bar in Thailand, where do you think he met his Filipino business associates in Mindanao? At the Sunday mass?

 

Do you really think foreigners come to this country and even with all the hard core experience in their resume they can start up any kind of prostitution related business? And the local clans would just watch them with happy smile on their face? Or do you think they placed public ads to recruit the girls and the involved Filipinos were only house helpers who made tea for the girls, wiped off the monitors time to time and aired the rooms after the shifts?

So in summary the Filipinos were not pimps at all, they were also "exploited" (how I love this word, good Lord) and basically they were innocent?

 

Because if you want to believe that, I think you will have to look around in the boy scout camp and find a tent for yourself.

 

Two Swedes from the p*orn business met 3 Filipino gangsters and they ran the show together, thats all. They are all gangsters just for some reason we don't know much about the history of the Filipinos. How biased is that?

 

I hope with telling the story of the tax evasion, frauds and what not you don't want to imply that the Pinoy judge rightfully calculated all the past wrong doings of the Swedes into the sentence? Well, actually he might. After all this is the Philippines.

Edited by Danishman
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digiteye

English language is not my native language.

Salamat sa laban.:bashtroll:

 

 

Not mine either. Dili ko Kano.

 

Salamat sa songog.

 

:kissass:

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