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Serious Discussion About LinC


Bob Ward

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Davaoeno

I'm not sure why you chose to not copy what i posted that said exactly that ?

 

 

It noted however that there was probable cause to charge two respondents, Glen Norvic Ochoa and Jeffrey Jacob, with libel charges.

 

Actually, it was the 'webhost' (the owner of the physical servers on which the website(s) ran) was the one that was dismissed as having no liability. Do not get that mixed up with a website (domain) owner who has complete and total admin access to the information on his site.

 

The the authors of the comments were, in fact, still charged.

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fred42
And do not kid yourself that you are not known just because you have as your id 'Cebu Girl' for example.

 

Many R.P based users are connected via Wireless dongles..So I assume they will remain unknown.

I take your point about Admins vulnerability etc but also agree with the common sense suggestions and comments that Tommy just made..

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Davaoeno

When I first joined the site about 4 years ago there were posters asking many questions about Cebu and the RP. Banking, land ownership, visas etc etc. I learnt and I passed on knowledge. Havn't done that for months.

 

Look at the thread list now. Perhaps the site has run it's course in some respects or it has become a different animal. The main users have been here a while and if I was new I may think it is more of a club or association of expats.

 

It has become boring and the regulars post for something to do rather than add to the depth of knowledge about Cebu and the RP. If we can't be honest and open about corruption or the workings of the police what is the point? Threads on who's the last one to post and song titles etc. All the stuff above about libel is a smoke screen imho: if it is a problem, give posters guidance - ie never mention a name, be obtuse but get the point across. In reality the case mentioned was lost by the claimant, ie an f'ing precident.

 

Paul's suggestion of (I think, as it was 4 pages back) deleting off topic posts may cause as much trouble as it solves as who is deciding it's off topic? I really do not see why grownups can't be allowed to use their imagination, especially as a large proportion of the threads are not seriously about Cebu or the RP: if a topic is deemed to be important and likely to be searched for buy non posting punters, give a clear off topic warning, as shown above that was given by Paul.

 

Give it a try, the world wont end and we may get NEW members rather than loosing old ones.

 

In article that I posted it said - and i made it bold - The investigating prosecutor found that having admitted the authorship of the statements, the identity of the person defamed being certain; the legal presumption malice stands against them creating a prima facie case of libel, which must be ventilated in a court of law," it said.

 

 

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RogerDuMond

"Being merely the 'host' or 'server,' RPNSC [RP Nuclei Solutions] may not be held liable for libel," it said. Ploghost owns RP Nuclei Solutions, while Olandres runs Ploghost, a web hosting service.

 

Olandres' lawyer stressed Ploghost had no participation in the creation, nor did it have any authority to modify the content of the site that it was hosting.

 

"At the most, it can only discontinue the services if the user violates the Terms of Service agreed upon registration," the statement said.

 

Hence, any liability for libelous statements or remarks that may be coursed through or communicated through the websites that it is hosting will solely devolve on the part of the authors," it said.

 

Ploghost, which is owned by RP Nuclei Solutions, is not the owner or the existing server of "greedyolddumbass."

 

This is fairly self-explanatory, so I have missed your point. The entity "Living in Cebu Forums" is not the host, it is the author.

 

 

Ian

 

Even if you disregard Jesse's statement regarding the ownership of the forum versus the host, you are missing two giant facts.

 

1. With the ambiguous way that the two relevant laws are written, there is no certainty that a court would find the same way.

 

2. The biggest fact that you aren't considering is that the respondents in the suit had to hire a lawyer to represent them. Don't you think that it is irresponsible and inconsiderate for anyone to place this forum and its administrators in a position of having to spend money to defend themselves in court when it could be avoided by using a little common sense regarding what they post and where they post it?

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Stranded Shipscook

When I first joined the site about 4 years ago there were posters asking many questions about Cebu and the RP. Banking, land ownership, visas etc etc. I learnt and I passed on knowledge. Havn't done that for months.

 

Look at the thread list now. Perhaps the site has run it's course in some respects or it has become a different animal. The main users have been here a while and if I was new I may think it is more of a club or association of expats.

 

It has become boring and the regulars post for something to do rather than add to the depth of knowledge about Cebu and the RP. If we can't be honest and open about corruption or the workings of the police what is the point? Threads on who's the last one to post and song titles etc. All the stuff above about libel is a smoke screen imho: if it is a problem, give posters guidance - ie never mention a name, be obtuse but get the point across. In reality the case mentioned was lost by the claimant, ie an f'ing precident.

 

Paul's suggestion of (I think, as it was 4 pages back) deleting off topic posts may cause as much trouble as it solves as who is deciding it's off topic? I really do not see why grownups can't be allowed to use their imagination, especially as a large proportion of the threads are not seriously about Cebu or the RP: if a topic is deemed to be important and likely to be searched for buy non posting punters, give a clear off topic warning, as shown above that was given by Paul.

 

Give it a try, the world wont end and we may get NEW members rather than loosing old ones.

 

Good point, i also seldom can pass on info's , but in due fairness, it is because nobody asks them.

 

Club/association of expats- yes, if you mean the people which wait for questions and then try to answer them.

 

Off topic posts " i also put those off topic jokes sometimes, just posted one myself, followed by a serious answer. I doubt whether this would ever get deleted.

 

Which also explains maybe, why it appears that moderators or admin seem to post of topic without getting "harmed". Simply because they might as well also have contributed constructively earlier to the OP and then join the ranks of "fun" posts in the end, which then ends in the closing finally.

 

Just look for reference in the topic from "miles high" on "Whats the best car for cebu?

 

its been answered more or less and now simply drifts off into nowhere... check it out.

:scratch_head:

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broden

even as a mod i have a huge problem with this forum and the heavy handedness here

this place would never allow a thread like this to exist

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Davaoeno

Roger- go back and read the threads re Ella Joy- and the accusations that people were making about the Police, and about the PNP, and about the Governor- and see who it was that was warning people about being very careful what they post here !!!! I told people that they were stupid in accusing those above named of corruption and stupidity.

 

And my warnings today [ thru making points in bold type] for people to NOT identify anyone they criticize by name.

 

 

My position is NOT that we should never make accusations, but rather that we do it carefully, thoughtfully, and certainly never identifying anyone by name.

 

Its always amazing to me how someone is able to read something into a statement that just isnt there- and then the pack all jumps on board like a bunch of mindless persons.

 

 

 

You will find out that that is exactly what I posted !

Ian

 

Even if you disregard Jesse's statement regarding the ownership of the forum versus the host, you are missing two giant facts.

 

1. With the ambiguous way that the two relevant laws are written, there is no certainty that a court would find the same way.

 

2. The biggest fact that you aren't considering is that the respondents in the suit had to hire a lawyer to represent them. Don't you think that it is irresponsible and inconsiderate for anyone to place this forum and its administrators in a position of having to spend money to defend themselves in court when it could be avoided by using a little common sense regarding what they post and where they post it?

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Davaoeno

sorry- i'm having a problem understanding how this post relates ??

 

heavy handedness? by whom ? i dont see any heavy handedness in these posts. My posts have mostly been quotes from other places

 

maybe i'm not understanding what you are referring to .

 

.

even as a mod i have a huge problem with this forum and the heavy handedness here

this place would never allow a thread like this to exist

 

wrong ! each individual poster is his own author. YOu cant go blaming the forum for your own rants !

 

This is fairly self-explanatory, so I have missed your point. The entity "Living in Cebu Forums" is not the host, it is the author.

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mpt1947

wow ! where do you get your suggestions re how to proceed in legal matters- hopefully not from the attorney that you use ! You suggest going to court and suing people for " stifling freedom of speech " ??? Thats sure a new one to me . If thats what you call pragmatic ?????

 

 

 

Sir:

 

You seem to continue to push this thought that forum is stifling your ability to freely state your position on subjects, by using the threat that the forum owner will be charged with libel.

 

Now I am not an attorney - and unlike many on this forum and maybe throughout the world - I respect your profession - so I don't want to get into a game of legalize with you I concede - you win.

 

Alright I guess I am not practical - what do you want Mr. Life? What do you want Living In Cebu to do for you? What do you want the owner of this forum to do to satisfy your needs?

 

And if they cite that to allow you free reign, could open them up to libelous suits are you going to accept that decision or are you going to continue to push and push and push until hmmm seems you might envy those that have been banned....

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RogerDuMond

Roger- go back and read the threads re Ella Joy- and the accusations that people were making about the Police, and about the PNP, and about the Governor- and see who it was that was warning people about being very careful what they post here !!!! I told people that they were stupid in accusing those above named of corruption and stupidity.

 

And my warnings today [ thru making points in bold type] for people to NOT identify anyone they criticize by name.

 

 

My position is NOT that we should never make accusations, but rather that we do it carefully, thoughtfully, and certainly never identifying anyone by name.

 

Its always amazing to me how someone is able to read something into a statement that just isnt there- and then the pack all jumps on board like a bunch of mindless persons.

 

 

 

You will find out that that is exactly what I posted !

Ian I would appreciate it if you reread my post. I am not accusing you of making any statements now or in the past that could be considered as defamatory. The intention of my post was to explain that there are other ramifications of a charge of defamation being brought against anyone on this forum other than a finding of guilt. I am saying that by watching what we (not you per say) as a group say we can avoid any possible repercussions.

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TheDuke

I used to try to participate in more threads but after taking the time to write detailed responses to several topics and then having the threads locked a few post later I just gave up and started lurking. It's a waste of time to sit down and respond to a post only to have the thread locked a few post later because it is supposedly off topic. I don't want to point fingers but it seems like some of the mods take pride in closing threads as soon as a few post were off topic. One even calls himself "The Closer." I thought the mods were getting heavy handed and even challenged one mod when he reminded posters to remain on topic when we had never wandered off topic. After that I just gave up and decided not to post anymore or respond to his PM. I figured Paul had given a directive to the mods to more strict on threads wandering off topic so I did not say anything. I didn't even think anyone else noticed the trend until I saw Dablindfrog and Bob Ward's threads with multiple posters voicing similar concerns. Maybe things will get better, maybe not, but for the most part I am done posting. There are other forums.

 

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USMC-Retired

Can read no more. This topic is over kill now. Paul stated what toy want hear. Dead horse.

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Stranded Shipscook

Can read no more. This topic is over kill now. Paul stated what toy want hear. Dead horse.

 

lets see where it ends (my humble opinion/suggestion) until every single of the thousands of members have posted their opinion and bashed on mod's :bashtroll:

i volunteer as the horse :shitstormretarded:

 

:D

 

For everyones info- i got no moderating rights in this topic...

Edited by Guenther
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Bob Ward

I am pretty sure the bolded remark was made in jest - but if I were a new poster and I read that I would say WTF I don't need this Sh*t before 7 AM on a Friday morning.

 

 

You started a topic to have a serious conversation, and then you slam someone because you didn't like his contribution - and again even if in your mind it was just a joke and HeyMike understands it to be a joke, it is that guy with two posts wondering what the hell is going on. And that is the guy that Paul has to worry about

 

Geez, that simple left handed comment is construed as a SLAM? Damn, I can go back in the archives and dig out some really good slams that will entertain and curl your nose hair. I understand your point of contention, albeit a bit over the top. BTW - Some of the mods forgot to jump on the bandwagon and thank the above post. :shitstormretarded: LOLOL

 

Oh - Paul, I did not mean to imply that HeyMike was a newbie in the Phils, I don't know that. But he is a newbie here on the forum and I was being quite literal in my comment to him. That is a comment I would expect a newer person to make. Damn, I have to remember that all time best slam! LOL Cheers

 

Now back on topic!

 

Simply put, here are the issues as I see them.

 

As can be seen here recently, it pisses people off when they invest time and effort in a thread and some mod decides it does not suit them and closes or deletes it. I see part of that as either lack of training or laziness. If it's going OT, warn people, split it, but don't just close it.

 

Try not to put the "It's my fecking ball so you will play the game my way" right in peoples faces on a regular basis. Play that card when needed if you are the owner, but the admins and mods have no right to take that position in my opinion. If you tell people to piss off enough times, they will!

 

I personally think that this forum ran better when it was not run by the mass hoards. There were 3-4 admins and 4-5 mods and the moderating styles were reasonable well understood. I think there are like 13-14 mods plus X admins now. Just my opinion.

 

Regarding libelous content, that is a bailiwick that will never be solved. What one person sees as slander etc, another sees as the simple truth. The forum owner will rule here as he sees fit to cover his ass.

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HeyMike

Honestly, I don't know why this video comes to mind.

(PS: Bob, I did not take your post as a slam)

 

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