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David, it looked like the price you quoted for photovoltaics included a storage battery which is not strictly needed. $13K for the cells and a few hundred for the inverter, and you're in business.

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david why dont you buy one and tell us how much you save and if it works after a few years we can all start buying them... but do hire a guard to protect your mirror or it will be for sale at the loca

It is very difficult to estimate energy costs over the next 20 years. I think the sensible system at the present cost point would only allow you to run power at an "emergency" level at night. I also t

'thebob', I think the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle needs to be applied here,   Liquid Salt, is indeed a method for storing heat, but not very practical for a home supply set up. Also not

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David, it looked like the price you quoted for photovoltaics included a storage battery which is not strictly needed. $13K for the cells and a few hundred for the inverter, and you're in business.

 

 

 

 

i dont think anyone plans on buying this set up its more like if its a good system maybe we should start a business selling these units..

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senseless

By looking at the design of this device the price is ridiculously high. It is nothing but a sort of microwave oven redesigned. From the message its also clear that they could supply devices for home use, but they don't want to. I think this industry is either under pressure of the fossil energy giants or they use the scarcity of energy sources for their own wealth generation instead of green power generation.

 

How nice it would be if the Gates Foundation would invest into such technology to make it affordable (not as if it could not be affordable even today). But they are busy with vaccines and CO2 emission calculation.

 

Btw 25 years break even is valid for nuclear power plants, not for sun collectors. Its a bloody rip off.

 

It's a stirling motor not a microwave oven. Do a google search. It uses a fancy heat exchange to produce rotational energy. The cost of the membranes for such a device are extremely expensive due to their high tech nature. There have been 25Kw and up units under testing at sandia labs for decades undergoing various testing and research. The problem with these has always been the membranes used to produce force wear quickly. If they seriously have a unit that will produce 3kw on membranes that do not wear A+++.

 

I wonder how often their 3Kw unit needs maintenance.

Edited by senseless
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David_LivinginTalisay

It's a stirling motor not a microwave oven. Do a google search. It uses a fancy heat exchange to produce rotational energy. The cost of the membranes for such a device are extremely expensive due to their high tech nature. There have been 25Kw and up units under testing at sandia labs for decades undergoing various testing and research. The problem with these has always been the membranes used to produce force wear quickly. If they seriously have a unit that will produce 3kw on membranes that do not wear A+++.

 

I wonder how often their 3Kw unit needs maintenance.

 

Stirling Engines are extremely simple, reliable and very little maintenance required.

 

http://www.howstuffw...ling-engine.htm

 

 

The Stirling engine is a heat engine that is vastly different from theinternal-combustion engine in your car. Invented by Robert Stirling in 1816, the Stirling engine has the potential to be much more efficient than a gasoline or diesel engine. But today, Stirling engines are used only in some very specialized applications, like in submarines or auxiliary power generators for yachts, where quiet operation is important. Although there hasn't been a successful mass-market application for the Stirling engine, some very high-power inventors are working on it.

 

stirling-engine-displacer.jpg

Photo courtesy

American Stirling Company

This engine can run using only the heat from your hand. See pictures of

engines.

A Stirling engine uses theStirling cycle, which is unlike the cycles used in internal-combustion engines.

 

  • The gasses used inside a Stirling engine never leave the engine. There are no exhaust valves that vent high-pressure gasses, as in a gasoline or diesel engine, and there are no explosions taking place. Because of this, Stirling engines are very quiet.
  • The Stirling cycle uses an external heat source, which could be anything from gasoline to solar energy to the heat produced by decaying plants. No combustion takes place inside the cylinders of the engine.

 

There are 2 x pistons in a Sterling Engine. One is a loose fit, so gasses can pass from 'Hot' end to 'Cool end, and vica versa. The other piston is a tighter gas fit, that moves from the gas pressure variations in its cylinder.

http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCStirlingGenerator.htm

free_schem.jpg

 

http://www.photology.fr/stirling/stirlinglinear.html

 

 

This 'Free-piston' Sterling Engine is linked to a linear Alternator, so this animated .gif is the Infinea 'PowerDish'

infinia_linear.gif

The heat source is materialized in orange and blue cold source - between the two, the mover.

The piston engine, gray center, directly activates the alternator.

This second movie from the NASA describes essentially the same device.

The piston, shown in red, is more easily recognizable ...

The set is contained in a chamber filled with helium at a pressure of 15 MPa (150 bar).

animation_TDC_01_jeff.gif

 

Surprisingly simple, and the set up on the Infinea PowerDish, produces 3Kw from it's built in linear ALTERNATOR,

The Infinea set up has an integral cooling jacket and electric powered Fan 'radiator', so the 'Cool' end stays 'Cool', while the focussed thermal heat energy of the sun from the parabolic refelectorensures that the Hot end becomes very 'Hot'.

 

I am confused why 'senseless' then posted in the same paragraph as mentioning about Stirling Engine this:-

"The cost of the membranes for such a device are extremely expensive due to their high tech nature. There have been 25Kw and up units under testing at sandia labs for decades undergoing various testing and research. The problem with these has always been the membranes used to produce force wear quickly. If they seriously have a unit that will produce 3kw on membranes that do not wear A+++."

What has that got to do with a 'Stirling Engine'? There is no 'membrane' in a Stirling Engine?

'thebob' was the one who mentioned 'membranes' but that was in relation to another energy source 'Fuel Cells'

 

"The most elegant solution would be to power a hydrogen fuel cell, which would crack water into hydrogen and oxygen. Proton exchange membranes systems are expensive and the added complication of hydrogen storage is also a barrier to implementation"

 

'senseless' , I have posted that the Infinea PowerDish website information, states that Cooling Fluid needs to be changed every 5 Years, Lubricatiing Oil needs changing every 10 Years, I read somewhere else.

That is it as far as 'maintenance' goes, so 'Infinea' seem keen to point out as one of the PowerDish main features.

Edited by David_LivinginTalisay
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David_LivinginTalisay

220px-Hydro_quebec_meter.JPG 220px-ElectricityMeterMechanism.jpg

Electromechanical meters

220px-Mechanical_electricity_meter_1965_%281%29.jpg

This mechanical electricity meter has every other dial rotating counter-

clockwise.

The most common type of electricity meter is the electromechanical induction watt-hour meter. [14][15]

 

The electromechanical induction meter operates by counting the revolutions of an aluminium disc which is made to rotate at a speed proportional to the power. The number of revolutions is thus proportional to the energy usage. It consumes a small amount of power, typically around 2 watts.

 

The metallic disc is acted upon by two coils. One coil is connected in such a way that it produces a magnetic fluxin proportion to the voltage and the other produces a magnetic flux in proportion to the current. The field of the voltage coil is delayed by 90 degrees using a lag coil.[16] This produces eddy currents in the disc and the effect is such that a force is exerted on the disc in proportion to the product of the instantaneous current and voltage. A permanent magnet exerts an opposing force proportional to the speed of rotation of the disc. The equilibrium between these two opposing forces results in the disc rotating at a speed proportional to the power being used. The disc drives a register mechanism which integrates the speed of the disc over time by counting revolutions, much like the odometer in a car, in order to render a measurement of the total energy used over a period of time.

 

The type of meter described above is used on a single-phase AC supply. Different phase configurations use additional voltage and current coils.

The amount of energy represented by one revolution of the disc is denoted by the symbol Kh which is given in units of watt-hours per revolution. The value 7.2 is commonly seen. Using the value of Kh, one can determine their power consumption at any given time by timing the disc with a stopwatch. If the time in seconds taken by the disc to complete one revolution is t, then the power in watts is fa0bbaf30bb872c0c8d650c9d9e0cafc.png. For example, if Kh = 7.2, as above, and one revolution took place in 14.4 seconds, the power is 1800 watts. This method can be used to determine the power consumption of household devices by switching them on one by one.

 

The aluminum disc is supported by a spindle which has a worm gear which drives the register. The register is a series of dials which record the amount of energy used. The dials may be of the cyclometer type, an odometer-like display that is easy to read where for each dial a single digit is shown through a window in the face of the meter, or of the pointer type where a pointer indicates each digit. With the dial pointer type, adjacent pointers generally rotate in opposite directions due to the gearing mechanism.

 

Most domestic electricity meters must be read manually, whether by a representative of the power company or by the customer. Where the customer reads the meter, the reading may be supplied to the power company by telephone, post or over the internet. The electricity company will normally require a visit by a company representative at least annually in order to verify customer-supplied readings and to make a basic safety check of the meter.

 

In an induction type meter, creep is a phenomenon that can adversely affect accuracy, that occurs when the meter disc rotates continuously with potential applied and the load terminals open circuited. A test for error due to creep is called a creep test.

 

Two standards govern meter accuracy, ANSI C12.20 for North America and IEC 62053.

 

 

Sorry but I have no experience of how a home energy system might connect to the Power Grid?

How does grid interactive solar power work?

 

 

While the technology behind solar power may seem complex, when broken down, grid connect is easy to understand as it needs few components.

 

 

 

How-Grid-Solar-power-Works.gif

 

 

  • Sun shines on the
    generating DC electricity
  • The DC electricity is fed into an
    which converts it to 240V 50Hz ACelectricity.
  • The 240V AC electricity is used to power appliances in your home.
  • Surplus electricity is fed back into the main grid.

 

Whenever the sun shines, the solar cells generate electricity. The grid connect inverter converts the DC electricity produced by the solar panels into 240V AC electricity, which can then be used by the property/household.

 

 

 

If a grid connect system is producing more power than is being consumed, the surplus is fed into the mains power grid. Some electricity companies will meter the electricity fed into the grid by your system and provide a credit on your bill. Other companies will install a bi-directional meter which will run backwards as your system feeds electricity into the grid.

 

When the solar cells are not producing power, for example at night, your power is supplied by the mains power grid as usual. The energy retailer charges the usual rate for the power used.

 

OK so this suggests that a 'standard' Consumer Unit, may not 'run backwards' if you were delivering more power than what you are consuming. From a pure 'Physics' point of view, there would be a current flow from system with higher voltage potential, to lower potential, and this would generate current in the opposite direction. Not much good if the Consumer Unit would not wind the clocks back, effectively giving one some 'Credit'.

When my Water Meter got 'stolen' and the local Water Utility made me buy a new one. they fitted it, the wrong way around. For many months, I had no Water Bill to pay, as the reading was less than the previous month. They did eventually figure it out and turn it around, but still took time before it caught up with the last 'correct' Water Bill of several months earlier. Was hoping an Electic Meter would just 'run backwards' if the current flow was in the opposite direction.

I can see practical problems and safety issues of trying to hook ones home to a Generator ans leave it connected to the grid at the same time, due phase discrepancies. I assumed a Control Unit would be required to isolate the 'Grid' Power. from the alternate energy Home Power and convert and 'synchronise' the two power systems?

 

OK I have just read about someone installing a PV Solar cell System to his home. This reduced his electric bill to the point where his readings were getting lower and lower. The utility Company assumed the Meter no longer recording correctly and changed it out. They just replaced it with a standard electric Meter, not a new Digital Type for use with Grid Connected Power System, where they can credit the cost of electricity flowing in the reverse direction, at lower rate than what they are charging for the supply.

So this got me thinking that the 'standard' Utility Power Meter as used here in the Philippines, might well run 'backwards' if the voltage in your home. was higher potential than the voltage from the utility company.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_meter

 

 

 

Power export metering

See also: Net meteringMany electricity customers are installing their own electricity generating equipment, whether for reasons of economy, redundancy or environmental reasons. When a customer is generating more electricity than required for his own use, the surplus may be exported back to the power grid. Customers that generate back into the "grid" usually must have special equipment and/or safety devices to protect the grid components (as well as the customer's own) in case of faults (electrical short circuits) or maintenance of the grid (say voltage potential on a downed line going into an exporting customers facility).

 

This exported energy may be accounted for in the simplest case by the meter running backwards during periods of net export, thus reducing the customer's recorded energy usage by the amount exported. This in effect results in the customer being paid for his/her exports at the full retail price of electricity. Unless equipped with a detent or equivalent, a standard meter will accurately record power flow in each direction by simply running backwards when power is exported. Such meters are no longer legal in the UK but instead a meter capable of separately measuring imported and exported energy is required. Where allowed by law, utilities maintain a profitable margin between the price of energy delivered to the consumer and the rate credited for consumer-generated energy that flows back to the grid. Lately, upload sources typically originate from renewable sources (e.g., wind turbines, photovoltaic cells), or gas or steam turbines, which are often found in cogenerationsystems. Another potential upload source that has been proposed is plug-in hybrid car batteries (vehicle-to-grid power systems). This requires a "smart grid," which includes meters that measure electricity via communication networks that require remote control and give customers timing and pricing options. Vehicle-to-grid systems could be installed at workplace parking lots and garages and at park and rides and could help drivers charge their batteries at home at night when off-peak power prices are cheaper, and receive bill crediting for selling excess electricity back to the grid during high-demand hours.

 

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David_LivinginTalisay

How do you know how many kWh you are consuming at any time as well as per month to know if that electric Bill from the Utility company is correct or not?

Answer: Go read you Utility Company Power Meter on hourly basis, Daily Weekly and Monthly

.................This might be practical if your Power Meter was installed in your house (as they are in the UK)m but here in the Philippines, likely to be on some Pole, a distance from your home, and up a pole so you need a ladder and with a whole load of other Power Meters of neighbours also (so need to read the correct Meter Number).

 

Practical Solution: Buy a private kWh Meter (with optional Data Feed so that your PC can Log the Readings, and present Hour, Daily, Weekly, Monthly, Quarterly, Yearly reading but requires the PC is on and consuming power for this)

 

EZ%20Logo.jpg Box1.jpg

 

 

Phone(805) 688-9696

Toll Free(800) 824-9696

http://ezmeter.com

 

Davidge Controls

583 N Refugio Rd

Santa Ynez, CA 93460-9701

 

You ordered:

Quantity 1 of item 2510/576-411G Glacier RS-485 for $432.26 each

 

This is the Company I ordered one from, but I still need to buy an RS422/USB convertor in order to log the readings.

 

However I now wish I head discovered this Company before ordering from Davidge Controls

TED (The Energy Detective) offer Wireless connection via Current Transformer Clamp, to MTU installed in your Breaker cabinet. This signals through the Mains cabling in your house, to the Gateway receiver that connects via LAN Cable to a WiFi Router of yours. There is a remote display that connects via WiFi. Any PC or Laptop receiving the WiFi Signal can run Utility Software that shows the kWh Readings etc

 

Picture5.jpg

 

TED (The Energy Detective) is a simple, yet extremely accurate, home energy monitor that allows you to see electricity usage in real-time. You no longer have to wait for the 'electricity bill surprise'! TED will accurately tell you what your bill is going to be long before the electric bill arrives. Meanwhile, you will learn more about conserving energy, saving money, and helping save the environment.

 

With its patented solution to home energy management, TED quantifies electricity and displays the results on its easy-to-read LCD screen and/or a local or remote computer. Unlike some complicated electricity conservation systems, TEDis a simple, intuitive and affordable way to monitor and manage your entire home's energy consumption. Think of it as your home's speedometer.

 

With its one-second reaction time, TED provides immediate feedback on energy usage. For you, that means no surprises. You can see what you're spending on electricity each second, as well as what you've spent so far today or so far this month. View data at your home, or remotely on any device that connects to the Internet.

 

For a more comprehensive look at your electricity usage, and to really 'see' where you may be wasting electricity (AND MONEY) check out TED Footprints. TED Footprints is dynamic software that allows you to log your electricity usage on your computer for graphing, charting, seeing trends, load-profiling and much more!

 

And with the help of TED, you're not only able to better manage your own dollars, you are also helping your neighbors, your community, and the environment through energy conservation.

 

 

  • Home /
  • TED 5000 Features

The Smart Grid Just Got Smarter

Picture9_1.png

TED 5000 has all the features of the TED 1000 series, as well as:

 

<li style="text-align: left;margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; ">Works with [url="http://www.google.com/powermeter/"]Google PowerMeter[/url]<li style="text-align: left;margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; ">Intuitive, simple setup directly from Computer<li style="text-align: left;margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; ">Compatible with Windows PC, Mac & Linux !<li style="text-align: left;margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; ">Wireless hand-held display<li style="text-align: left;margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; ">Backlit display<li style="text-align: left;margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; ">Rechargeable Battery - no batteries to change<li style="text-align: left;margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; ">Accurate to within 2%<li style="text-align: left;margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; ">User can customize displays<li style="text-align: left;margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; ">Adjustable sensitivity - user can adjust down to ONE WATT !<li style="text-align: left;margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; ">View real-time energy data remotely via Internet or mobile device<li style="text-align: left;margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; ">Optional Solar/Wind Package - Net-Metering capability<li style="text-align: left;margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; ">Receives signal from multiple sources<li style="text-align: left;margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; ">Ties into Home Automation Systems<li style="text-align: left;margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; ">Stores detailed data for export to computer<li style="text-align: left;margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; ">Accommodates all rate structures (flat, tiered, time-of-use, demand.)

ted-5000-c.png

TED 5000-C

Availability: In stock

 

$239.95

 

powermeter_logo.gif

With

Google PowerMeter , Solar/Wind Compatible

Model 5000-C comes with all the components necessary to monitor energy usage, plus a sleek, wireless display to serve as a friendly reminder to keep you aware of your household energy usage. In addition, you can still use your computer or mobile device to track your energy data.

The TED 5000-C package includes: one set of CTs, one MTU, one Display, and one Gateway and works with

Google PowerMeter

TED 5000 INSTALLATION PROGRAM:

 

Once you download and run this program, it will locate your Gateway IP address for you. You will then be given the option to "Launch in Browser", which will bring up the TED Footprints screen. Please click on the appropriate link below to download the TED installation application program:

Live Demo of the Software: http://demo.theenerg...Footprints.html

A damn sight better than what I bought and at lower cost!

Edited by David_LivinginTalisay
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David, the 650.000$ device gave me a business idea. If you will be ready to invest that much, let me know - I will setup the world's first Human Energy Gym. The concept is very simple, the local guys who will want to get muscular can join my gym and exercise thus generating electricity on specially designed trademills, and they will not only do it for free but will even get paid. The only drawback: there will be huge line ups in front of your house. But it will be very green.

 

:lee_popcorn:

 

Soylent Green

 

ebike9hp.jpg

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David_LivinginTalisay

David, the 650.000$ device gave me a business idea. If you will be ready to invest that much, let me know - I will setup the world's first Human Energy Gym. The concept is very simple, the local guys who will want to get muscular can join my gym and exercise thus generating electricity on specially designed trademills, and they will not only do it for free but will even get paid. The only drawback: there will be huge line ups in front of your house. But it will be very green.

 

:scratch_head:

 

Soylent Green

 

 

 

Sounds like you think what I posted was something to Joke about - why?

 

If you don't like the idea of a kWh Meter to know if the Utility company (VECO) is correct in saying the Billed kWh (1074 kWh on our last bill) is accurate and a Charge of Php9,303 is valid, and if you not interested in alternative power to reduce such bill, then simply IGNORE my Message post - no need to be so damn rude and insulting, with such JOKES!

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David, the 650.000$ device gave me a business idea. If you will be ready to invest that much, let me know - I will setup the world's first Human Energy Gym. The concept is very simple, the local guys who will want to get muscular can join my gym and exercise thus generating electricity on specially designed trademills, and they will not only do it for free but will even get paid. The only drawback: there will be huge line ups in front of your house. But it will be very green.

 

:scratch_head:

 

Soylent Green

 

 

 

Sounds like you think what I posted was something to Joke about - why?

 

If you don't like the idea of a kWh Meter to know if the Utility company (VECO) is correct in saying the Billed kWh (1074 kWh on our last bill) is accurate and a Charge of Php9,303 is valid, and if you not interested in alternative power to reduce such bill, then simply IGNORE my Message post - no need to be so damn rude and insulting, with such JOKES!

 

 

 

 

Don't worry about him, David...

 

Willie is one of the resident asses here. He's actually more civilized than he used to be, but still a real wanker.

 

Har de har har har

 

Pete of New Hampshire

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David, the 650.000$ device gave me a business idea. If you will be ready to invest that much, let me know - I will setup the world's first Human Energy Gym. The concept is very simple, the local guys who will want to get muscular can join my gym and exercise thus generating electricity on specially designed trademills, and they will not only do it for free but will even get paid. The only drawback: there will be huge line ups in front of your house. But it will be very green.

 

:evan_iliadis:

 

Soylent Green

 

 

 

Sounds like you think what I posted was something to Joke about - why?

 

If you don't like the idea of a kWh Meter to know if the Utility company (VECO) is correct in saying the Billed kWh (1074 kWh on our last bill) is accurate and a Charge of Php9,303 is valid, and if you not interested in alternative power to reduce such bill, then simply IGNORE my Message post - no need to be so damn rude and insulting, with such JOKES!

 

 

 

 

David - I wasn't responding to your post but Digiteye's. Lighten up man, the topic doesn't deal with life or death. Nonetheless, I actually found it to be quite interesting. Carry on.

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Wombat No More

I'm 44, so I wonder if it is still feasible for me to consider a solar array? I mean, would I get a decent return back out of the array before I die? That is taking into mind that, through the luck of the Irish, I were to live to see 65 years of age.

 

 

:biggrin_01::(

Geez Paul!...... and here's me thinkin you were around 65 already! I must have been eatin too much vegemite?

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David_LivinginTalisay

As you know, the cost of Electricity is expensive in thePhilippines and especially so, here in CEBU.

 

Whilst I am not an Air-conditioning Engineer, I did have anEngineering Apprenticeship, bur then specialized in TelecommunicationEngineering, with Cable & Wireless Ltd.

 

One such product that we spend a lot on Electricity to run, isAir-conditioning – a product that you company offers, and installs.

 

 

 

Has anyone on this Forum ever looked into Absorption Chillers fed with Hot Water from Solar Heat Collectors?

 

Solar thermal cooling

Mainarticle: Absorption heat pump

 

Active solar cooling uses solar thermalcollectors to providethermal energy to drive thermally driven chillers (usually adsorption or absorption chillers).[5] The Sopogy concentratingsolar thermal collector, for example, provides solar thermal heat byconcentrating the sun's energy on a collection tube and heating therecirculated heat transfer fluid within the system.[6] Thegenerated heat is then used in conjunction with absorption chillers to providea renewable source of industrial cooling.[7]

 

The solar thermal energy system can be also used to produce hot water.

 

There are multiple alternatives to compressor-based chillers thatcan reduce energy consumption, with less noise and vibration. Solar thermal energy can be used to efficiently cool in thesummer, and also heat domestic hot water and buildings in the winter.

 

Solar Hot Water can be obtained from Flat Panels, or moreefficiency with higher water temperatures, using Evacuated Tube technology.

 

SEIDO2-16_%E6%AD%A3_%E8%B0%83%E6%95%B4%E5%A4%A7%E5%B0%8F.jpgflat-collector_PG2.0-FG_200.gifflat-collector_PG2.0-FL_200.gif

 

 

 

Solar Powered Air Conditioning Just MakesSense

 

Broad%20air.jpg

 

Some concepts just make sense- like when the developer of a solar powered pontoon boat pointed out-"Since most recreational boating is done when the weather is nice, solar power is particularly well adapted to the task." We were thinking that way while looking for a solar powered air conditioner- when do you need it? When it is hot and sunny. We looked at Justin's SolCool but we knew that natural gas fired AC units or propane fridges existed and thought heat is heat- there must be one somewhere, and put google to work. This is the first of a series- the Direct-Fired Absorption system.(DFA)broad%20heating%20cycle-thumb.gif

 

 

 

 

Challenge: Build the Solar Powered AirConditioner

 

We continue to be fascinated by the idea of asolar powered air conditioner, particularly after reading this in Alternet. Until central air became common, Florida and Arizona were barely habitable- you went in winter and cleared out. Now 20% of our energy goes to power air conditioning, and it defines the peak loads. 5.5% of our gasoline goes to power our car air conditioning, and four southern states-California, Arizona, Texas and Florida, account for 35% of it. Clearly if we are going to use less energy we have to address this problem. So here is a challenge to all you Lifehacker and Make types- build it for us. And not a lame ice-cooled pretend air conditioner but the real thing. Here are some ideas and parameters:

 

1) The air conditioner will probably be an ammonia absorption unit, common in RV propane fridges. These counter-intuitive units apply heat at one end to vaporize the ammonia, which absorbs heat when it condenses at the other end, cooling off the fridge.

 

(simplified explanation, read a better one here) We even found a site with plans for a build-your-own unit (shown above with the hot end, an old propane cylinder, cooking on a coleman stove). Not being able to open envelopes without suffering injury we note the warning: It needs to be emphasized that ammonia gas is extremely toxic and flammable. One deep breath of pure ammonia gas will KILL a human being. If you are not a mechanically inclined person who pays close attention to details, do not attempt to build one of these units. That counts us out, but that's why we are an architect, not a carpenter. It is a short leap from fridge to AC on the cold end- a small fan and perhaps a duct and you are in business.

 

2) replace the propane with solar heat. Comments on our last post suggested hot water as a medium, with evacuated tubes as the generator. Justin did an overview of these here. These give the highest grade heat of any hot water system but are expensive, but are coming down in cost quickly, having been offshored to China. We don't have the science to know if hot water is actually hot enough- one site says "the whole [absorption] unit operates by the heat applied to the boiler system and it is of paramount importance that this heat is kept within the necessary limits and is properly applied." and, um, we don't know what that temperature is.

 

3) There may be a need for storage- it may get cool in Arizona at night but it doesn't necessarily do so in Florida. Should there be a water storage tank or should there be a phase changing storage medium to keep the thing running?

 

4) There may be even smarter solutions than this complex ammonia based concoction. Last year Justin wrote about two teenagers who invented a Peltier effect based system. This might be cheaper and easier.

 

We wish we were like the X-Prize guys and could offer $10 million to the person who does this; it is an important, if less spectacular challenge. We will think of something

 

absorption%20cooling-thumb.jpg

 

 

 

I had also been researching into Solar Voltaic Solar Energyto produce electricity to drive Fans etc

 

I came across 75W High TransparentThin Film Hollow BIPV Solar Panel

75W_High_Transparent_Thin_Film_Hollow_BIPV_Solar_Panel.jpg_200x200.jpg

 

As you can see, this is a tinted Window foruse in buildings that uses Thin Film Photo Voltaic that can be produced with'spray on' Photovoltaic dyes – 3 layers of PV Thin Film cells, each responding to a different wavelength of the Sun's energy, and being semi-transparent, so acts as 'tinted glass'.

 

This panel produces 75W of electric energy, so imagine a whole housewith such windows, or a roof covered with such Thin Film BIPV SolarPanel

 

This got me thinking about possible use ofsuch 75W High Transparent Thin Film Hollow BIPV SolarPanel asthe front of a Solar Hot Water Panel.

 

 

Universities ought to be researching this, to determineif the Suns light energy can produce PV electricity energy, but the HEAT energypass through such High Transparent Thin Film BIPV Solar Panel to heatup the water in Solar Heat collectors – Flat Panel type, possibly thenfeeding Evacuated Tube Collectors to raise the temperaturehigh enough for use in Absorption Chillers.

Most Absorption Chillers commerciallyavailable are big 10 ton units and larger, and not suitable for DomesticHome application.

D0BFD18AF3B1FCA863EB11BE252492BF2007DDF9_large.jpg

 

However I did come across this article on Spanish company, Rotartica,has put it all together, by combining evacuated tube thermal collectors with a water-heated absorption chiller, and sized it at 4.5Kw (1.28 tons) forresidential use, all packaged in a neat little box.

 

 

Small-ScaleSolar Powered Air Conditioning Is Here (in Spain, Anyways)

 

by Lloyd Alter,Toronto on 01.17.08

 

rotarica.jpg

 

For years we have been saying that solar powered air conditioning just makes sense- if you are boiling in Phoenix the sun is probably shining really hard. We have seen big units, evaporative units that won't work in humid climates, a few vaporware units and even home-made absorption chillers

 

Now it looks like a Spanish company, Rotartica, has put it all together, by combining evacuated tube thermal collectors with a water-heated absorption chiller, and sized it at 4.5Kw (1.28 tons) for residential use, all packaged in a neat little box.

 

2008-01-17_100746-TreeHugger-exterior-view.jpg

 

From an operation point of view it is very simple: you put hot water in, you get cold water out, which you can run to a conventional fancoil. The hot water in can come from any source, but evacuated tube collectors, which used to be very expensive, are pretty affordable now. If you want to get more techie:

 

In an absorption chiller unit the evaporator and condenser are the same as in conventional systems but the function of the compressor is performed by a chemical absorbent (LiBr) and a heat generator, with only a pump being required to provide the change in pressure. As there is

no compressor, electricity consumption is reduced significantly.

 

2008-01-17_100611-TreeHugger-absorption-cycle.jpg

 

The diagram is a graphic representation of the Single Effect Absorption Cycle, which

functions as follows:

 

1. The refrigerant, together with the salt or absorbent in the Generator, evaporates due

to the heat provided by a burner or an external circuit leading to a heat exchanger.

 

2. The absorbent is conveyed to the Absorber as a solution with a low refrigerant content,

while the refrigerant that has evaporated in the Generator travels to the Condenser

where it is condensed and releases heat.

 

3. Due to the difference in pressure, the refrigerant flows to the Evaporator where, at a

low temperature and as a result of the low pressure, it evaporates and absorbs heat

from the circuit which subsequently goes on to cool the room.

 

4. Lastly, the evaporated refrigerant is attracted by the absorbent in the Absorber, where

the refrigerant-rich absorbent solution is created once more and is conveyed to the Generator where the whole cycle begins again.

 

2008-01-17_101203-TreeHugger-full%20installation.jpg

 

We don't know the price, (probably expensive) but operating costs will be negligible and it runs when the sun is hottest and electricity the most in demand; once those smart meters become common this may be the only way to affordably cool on the hottest days. If you are worried about being cool at night, perhaps you can add an ice bear. ::Rotarica

 

 

 

Read more on Rortica

 

http://andyschroder....Description.pdf

 

http://andyschroder.com/rotartica.html

 

Product Information from Rotartica

 

 

 

Rotartica Product Description

Rotartica Hydronic circuit flow rates and presssure drops

Rotartica COP curves

Rotartica Installation Manual

Rotartica Case Study 1 (Spanish)

Rotartica Case Study 2 (Spanish)

Rotartica Case Study 3 (Spanish)

 

 

Additional Images of the Rotartica Solar 045v

 

solar045v.png

 

Inside of the Rotartica Solar 045v showcasing its rotarty heat exchanger

06270007.jpg

 

06270017.jpg

 

06270010.jpg

 

Hydronic ports on the Rotartica Solar 045v

 

06270005-cropped.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

As of May 2010, Rotartica's website appears to be down. It is believed that they may be out of business. This information is being provided as a historical reference and as a technical resource in order to better illustrate how CPC Evacuated Tube Solar Thermal Collectors can be integrated into solar cooling applications. We are not able to sell or support Rotartica products or absorption chillers at this time.

 

Bad news indeed, if Rotartica have gone out of business (would be interested to try and find out why, if that is the case - bad product or bad management?) as I was well impressed with their compact and efficient Absorption Chiller that operated off Hot Water from Evacuated Tube Solar Thermal Collectors

 

As I said I am also interested in looking into combining PV Solar Energy with Solar Heat energy to produce Hot Water and Electricity for a Solar Powered Cooling System for a House that also supplies Hot water and DC Electric for the Air Conditioning Fans, as well as LED lighting etc.

Edited by David_LivinginTalisay
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There is another name for solar-powered air conditioning...trees.

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Ozepete

[qu

Bad news indeed, if Rotartica have gone out of business (would be interested to try and find out why, if that is the case - bad product or bad management?) as I was well impressed with their compact and efficient Absorption Chiller that operated off Hot Water from Evacuated Tube Solar Thermal Collectors

 

As I said I am also interested in looking into combining PV Solar Energy with Solar Heat energy to produce Hot Water and Electricity for a Solar Powered Cooling System for a House that also supplies Hot water and DC Electric for the Air Conditioning Fans, as well as LED lighting etc.

 

 

David, the most efficient air conditioning systems are available now and have been for decades. Refrigerated Air Conditioners (RAC's)

Absorption refrigeration and Peltier systems were invented over a hundred years ago and are and always will be totally inefficient (Physics demands it)

 

All refrigeration systems (including refrigerated air cons) remove heat. This is why they are often called heat pumps.

There is no such thing as 'Cold'. Cold is not a measurable unit, heat is. Cold only exists relatively after heat is removed. So if we require something to be 'colder' we have to remove the heat. Heat removed is measured in watts of heat. (BTU's in the old days)

Removing this heat involves equipment using energy, usually electrical energy unfortunately also called watts (Lets say electrical watts)

Now the efficiency of the equipment used to remove the heat and cause the fridge or room to be colder can be measured and is quoted as the co-efficient factor. (Co-ef) The co-efficient factor is derived by dividing the amount of heat removed (watts of heat), by the energy used (electrical watts) by the equipment used to do the job. So if 1000 electrical watts are used to remove 2000 watts of heat the Co-ef would be 2 but if 2000 electrical watts are used to remove 1000 watts of heat the Co-ef would be only 0.5.

For example:

Say a room requires 2400 watts of heat per hour to be removed for it to be at a comfortable temperature.

A typical 1 HP Refrigerated air conditioner could provide this 2400 watts per hour of heat removal while using approx 800 per hour of electrical energy. It would therefore have a Co-ef of 3 which is typical for RAC's (2400 divided by 800)

Using an absorption system to do the same job would use approx three to five times more electrical energy than the RAC.

Using a Peltier system to do the same job would use approx eight to ten times more electrical energy than the RAC.

It is a no-brainer, these other forms of heat transfer are not just a little inefficient and perhaps could be improved, they have been around for over a hundred years and are many times less efficient than the common RAC.

 

I am a refrigeration engineer and in the past ten or so years there have been many, perhaps well intended, who are going to save the world by 'their' discovery. Only trouble is they are presenting ideas and principles, that were discarded decades ago, as their invention!!

With the huge amount of funding that is available and the gullibility of those distributing it, many of these dreamers end up well funded, at least until exposed. Then they disappear. The Spanish 'Solar power air conditioner' is a classic example. This is simply a refrigerated water chiller supplying an air handling unit.. Nothing new, there air millions of similar systems around the world, but no doubt some sucker organisation will fund these re-inventors.

Sorry David, there are no free lunches in the real world! Cheers.

 

Edited by Ozepete
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