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David_LivinginTalisay

david why dont you buy one and tell us how much you save and if it works after a few years we can all start buying them... but do hire a guard to protect your mirror or it will be for sale at the local scrap yard in one week/// here i complained about spending 60,000peso on a generator and your looking to spend 650,000p oh well your right its cool to be green

 

Robert51.

 

I do not understand this "but do hire a guard to protect your mirror or it will be for sale at the local scrap yard in one week" that you posted in reply?

 

In what post/thread did you complain "about spending 60,000 peso on a generator"?

 

I may be wrong, but that price for 5KVA Diesel Generator unit in proper soundproof enclosure, seemed reasonable to me?

 

 

I do know something about Diesel Engine Generators, since Cable & Wireless put me on the R.A. Lister Diesel Engine Maintenance Training Course in Dursley, UK

 

See also http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/001011.php

 

 

 

listgen1.gif

One home-built Listeroid-powered 7.5 kilowatt generator with water-tank cooler.

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david why dont you buy one and tell us how much you save and if it works after a few years we can all start buying them... but do hire a guard to protect your mirror or it will be for sale at the loca

It is very difficult to estimate energy costs over the next 20 years. I think the sensible system at the present cost point would only allow you to run power at an "emergency" level at night. I also t

'thebob', I think the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle needs to be applied here,   Liquid Salt, is indeed a method for storing heat, but not very practical for a home supply set up. Also not

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David_LivinginTalisay

In my opinion, David, I would prefer to go with Solar and battery storage, rather than the dish idea that you posted. While the dish idea would provide power for x hours per day at x kw, the solar array would store the power in banks of batteries which would contain reserve energy for cloudy / rainy days and during night time.

 

I'm 44, so I wonder if it is still feasible for me to consider a solar array? I mean, would I get a decent return back out of the array before I die? That is taking into mind that, through the luck of the Irish, I were to live to see 65 years of age.

 

Whilst the cost and the efficiency of PV Photocells is improving (particularly these thin film 'self adhesive; stick on strips, that one could cover a roof using 'raised ridge roofing) it is still fairly expensive, and not sure they would last as long as 25 years (certainly no warranties for that period).

 

Whilst one has to have deep cycle batteries, a control panel and an inverter to form part of a PV Solar Power 'system' this adds to the cost, and more parts to go wrong. Admittedly you can then run off the batteries, once the sun has gone down.

 

Nothing stopping anyone having battery chargers connect to Deep Cycle Batteries via Control Panel and Inverter, run off such Infinea PowerDish Solar heat power from its integral Stirling Engine and linear Alternator system also.

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thebob

 

 

If they really do make that 3.2Kw Infinia PowerDish available for US$15,000 as the market price, then that is all you pay for. Nothing else to buy, except the cabling to hook up the built in linear alternator to your house mains supply.

 

Anyone know what else may be required to have such generator and grid supply connect, so you can feed surplus power into the grid and run your Utility meter backwards?

 

I don't think that power companies buy excess power here. The system in Japan is used as an incentive to use less energy. Because of transmission losses and the cost of grid infrastructure, they buy power at about one tenth of the cost they sell it for.

 

You will still need some way to store your power between sunset and dawn with this system.

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thebob

I'm 44, so I wonder if it is still feasible for me to consider a solar array? I mean, would I get a decent return back out of the array before I die? That is taking into mind that, through the luck of the Irish, I were to live to see 65 years of age.

 

It is very difficult to estimate energy costs over the next 20 years. I think the sensible system at the present cost point would only allow you to run power at an "emergency" level at night. I also think that a single alternative source isn't flexible enough. Combining a PV system, with a wind turbine is a good idea because the wind blows at night, but you will still need some kind of storage.

 

For a solar thermal solution like the "Infinia PowerDish" the heliotrope would be used to heat a thermal storage medium with a very high heat capacity, molten salt is popular. This way energy can be stored and retrieved with fewer phase transitions.

 

The most elegant solution would be to power a hydrogen fuel cell, which would crack water into hydrogen and oxygen. Proton exchange membranes systems are expensive and the added complication of hydrogen storage is also a barrier to implementation.

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David_LivinginTalisay

It is very difficult to estimate energy costs over the next 20 years. I think the sensible system at the present cost point would only allow you to run power at an "emergency" level at night. I also think that a single alternative source isn't flexible enough. Combining a PV system, with a wind turbine is a good idea because the wind blows at night, but you will still need some kind of storage.

 

For a solar thermal solution like the "Infinia PowerDish" the heliotrope would be used to heat a thermal storage medium with a very high heat capacity, molten salt is popular. This way energy can be stored and retrieved with fewer phase transitions.

 

The most elegant solution would be to power a hydrogen fuel cell, which would crack water into hydrogen and oxygen. Proton exchange membranes systems are expensive and the added complication of hydrogen storage is also a barrier to implementation.

 

'thebob',

I think the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle needs to be applied here,

 

Liquid Salt, is indeed a method for storing heat, but not very practical for a home supply set up. Also not appropriate to the Infinea PowerDish sice the Solar Thermal Energy is not being used to generate Steam that drives a Turbine, that spins an Alternator. The linear motion of the Stirling Engine, drives a linear alternator, that directly produces to 120/240V, 50/60 Hz, Single/3 Phase, Electricity.

 

Charging batteries from this AC power and then drawing power from inverters connected to these batteries (or directly for LED lighting or Florescent tubes running of 12V DC modules), is probably the only practical solution for power when the sun is not shining.

 

I like your suggestion of using a Fuel Cell as a power source! One needs Hydrogen, but this can be produced from Electrolysis of Water. So instead of charging batteries you use the electricity produced from Solar Heat, to create Hydrogen, that is needed to recharge a Fuel Cell.

 

 

That reminded me of the British 'ENV' Motorcyle that ran off a 'Plug-in' Fuel Cell.

 

050615_fuel_cell_hmed_8a.grid-6x2.jpg050615_fuel_cell_bcol_8a.grid-6x2.jpg

 

The ENV has a range of 100 miles and can accelerate from 0 to 30 in 5 seconds. It takes 5 ounces of hydrogen to fill it up, at a cost of $3-4 for now, but that should drop to about 25 cents once hydrogen fueling stations are in place (who knows when that might be?) according to Andy Eggleston, vice president and ENV project director for Intelligent Energy. Durability seem very good: "Figure a motorbike is ridden two hours a day, five days a week. That's about 500 hours a year, 5,000 hours in 10 years. We've had a fuel cell of the type in the bike in continuous use for more than 16,000 hours."

 

 

 

 

So then all you need is Aircon that runs off these slot in Fuel Cell Batteries. Another for all the lighting in your house. Another that powers your Microwave, PC and TV?

 

Monitoring of 20 kW Grid-Connected Photovoltaic System in Phitsanulok, Thailand

 

NOVEL CONTROL STRATEGY FOR GRID-CONNECTED DC-AC CONVERTERS WITH LOAD POWER FACTOR AND MPPT CONTROL

pvcel0image1.gif

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Solar_power

 

 

Energy storage methods

Main articles: Grid energy storage and V2G

300px-Geesthacht_Energiepark.jpg
magnify-clip.pngThis energy park in Geesthacht, Germany, includes solar panels and pumped-storage hydroelectricity.

220px-ATTParkannualoutput.png
magnify-clip.pngSeasonal variation of the output of the solar panels at AT&T Park in San Francisco

Solar energy is not available at night, making energy storage an important issue in order to provide the continuous availability of energy.[74]Both wind power and solar power are intermittent energy sources, meaning that all available output must be taken when it is available and either stored for when it can be used, or transported, over transmission lines, to where it can be used. Wind power and solar power tend to be somewhat complementary, as there tends to be more wind in the winter and more sun in the summer, but on days with no sun and no wind the difference needs to be made up in some manner.[75] The Institute for Solar Energy Supply Technology of the University of Kassel pilot-tested acombined power plant linking solar, wind, biogas and hydrostorage to provide load-following power around the clock, entirely from renewable sources.[76]

 

Solar energy can be stored at high temperatures using molten salts. Salts are an effective storage medium because they are low-cost, have a high specific heat capacity and can deliver heat at temperatures compatible with conventional power systems. The Solar Two used this method of energy storage, allowing it to store 1.44 TJ in its 68 storage tank, enough to provide full output for close to 39 hours, with an efficiency of about 99%.[77]

 

Off-grid PV systems have traditionally used rechargeable batteries to store excess electricity. With grid-tied systems, excess electricity can be sent to the transmission grid. Net metering programs give these systems a credit for the electricity they deliver to the grid. This credit offsets electricity provided from the grid when the system cannot meet demand, effectively using the grid as a storage mechanism. Credits are normally rolled over month to month and any remaining surplus settled annually.[78]

 

Pumped-storage hydroelectricity stores energy in the form of water pumped when surplus electricity is available, from a lower elevation reservoir to a higher elevation one. The energy is recovered when demand is high by releasing the water: the pump becomes a turbine, and the motor a hydroelectric power generator.[79]

Edited by David_LivinginTalisay
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David, the batteries you quoted are not a required part of the system to generate power from solar cells, if the grid won't buy back the power, you'd need the same batteries no matter what co-generation scheme you go with. The inverter is relatively cheap, and you need that for any co-gen scheme as well, almost. As for the "buying back at a fraction of the cost", that's aways true for every case I know of *IF* you generate a net surplus over the billing cycle. Almost no one does that and so the output essentially is subtracted from their bill.

 

If the power company won't allow you to put power on the grid (and the grid I've seen in PH is pretty crappy looking, BTW) I'd be doubtful you'd get anything except maybe a really good UPS out of this.

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Ozepete

David, we would all like an alternative 'free' power supply but while you and other like minded people are to be commended for the passion and emotion this subject creates, the facts that matter are very often conveniently missing or distorted. Ask the supplier to guarantee the claimed output without anyifs, buts or maybes! And obtain comparative costs that are truly representative,not 'cherry picked'.

 

The alternative energy industry is inundated with a diverse variety of participants ranging from those that are legitimate and factual based through to outright scam artists with a lot of opportunistic operators in the middle who thrive on government handouts from gullible politicians wanting to feel warm and fuzzy!

 

I am in an off grid industry and the biggest problem we have is with those that are over promoting products. This is causing tremendous harm as it is hard to get people back on track after they have been burnt.

 

There are no free meals and there aren't any free power supplies either.

 

Apart from the fact that they don't supply base load, all solar and wind powered alternatives are more expensive than conventional power supplies when 'apples are compared with apples'. I spent many years in Central Oz where there is far more sunlight than most places and even there solar systems did not come close to being viable. Diesel generators were the answer there.

 

The Oz government now has to subsidize solar systems by paying 80%+ of the capital costs and then subsidize power returned to the grid by >40cents / KW to make them appear viable. (Paid for by the mug taxpayer!)

 

The stirling engine has been around for many decades and often pops up as the mysterious core of yet another 'great creation'. None have gone any further after the government grants ran out.

 

I hope you get all the facts before parting with your hardearned cash!

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David_LivinginTalisay

David, the batteries you quoted are not a required part of the system to generate power from solar cells, if the grid won't buy back the power, you'd need the same batteries no matter what co-generation scheme you go with. The inverter is relatively cheap, and you need that for any co-gen scheme as well, almost. As for the "buying back at a fraction of the cost", that's aways true for every case I know of *IF* you generate a net surplus over the billing cycle. Almost no one does that and so the output essentially is subtracted from their bill.

 

If the power company won't allow you to put power on the grid (and the grid I've seen in PH is pretty crappy looking, BTW) I'd be doubtful you'd get anything except maybe a really good UPS out of this.

 

Sorry I do not recall quoting any "batteries"?

I posted details of a 2.6kW Solar PV 'system' Solar Power System For Big Houses And Business Firms

http://www.livingincebuforums.com/index.php?showtopic=24295&view=findpost&p=235112

 

This did include batteries:-

 

Complete solar power system for big homes and business firms. Package include solar panels, inverter, controller and batteries. Nothing else to buy except the power wiring. Price: P786,250.00

220px-Hydro_quebec_meter.JPG 220px-ElectricityMeterMechanism.jpg

Electromechanical meters

220px-Mechanical_electricity_meter_1965_%281%29.jpg
magnify-clip.pngThis mechanical electricity meter has every other dial rotating counter-clockwise.

 

The most common type of electricity meter is the electromechanical induction watt-hour meter. [14][15]

 

The electromechanical induction meter operates by counting the revolutions of an aluminium disc which is made to rotate at a speed proportional to the power. The number of revolutions is thus proportional to the energy usage. It consumes a small amount of power, typically around 2 watts.

 

The metallic disc is acted upon by two coils. One coil is connected in such a way that it produces a magnetic fluxin proportion to the voltage and the other produces a magnetic flux in proportion to the current. The field of the voltage coil is delayed by 90 degrees using a lag coil.[16] This produces eddy currents in the disc and the effect is such that a force is exerted on the disc in proportion to the product of the instantaneous current and voltage. A permanent magnet exerts an opposing force proportional to the speed of rotation of the disc. The equilibrium between these two opposing forces results in the disc rotating at a speed proportional to the power being used. The disc drives a register mechanism which integrates the speed of the disc over time by counting revolutions, much like the odometer in a car, in order to render a measurement of the total energy used over a period of time.

 

The type of meter described above is used on a single-phase AC supply. Different phase configurations use additional voltage and current coils.

 

 

The amount of energy represented by one revolution of the disc is denoted by the symbol Kh which is given in units of watt-hours per revolution. The value 7.2 is commonly seen. Using the value of Kh, one can determine their power consumption at any given time by timing the disc with a stopwatch. If the time in seconds taken by the disc to complete one revolution is t, then the power in watts is fa0bbaf30bb872c0c8d650c9d9e0cafc.png. For example, if Kh = 7.2, as above, and one revolution took place in 14.4 seconds, the power is 1800 watts. This method can be used to determine the power consumption of household devices by switching them on one by one.

 

The aluminum disc is supported by a spindle which has a worm gear which drives the register. The register is a series of dials which record the amount of energy used. The dials may be of the cyclometer type, an odometer-like display that is easy to read where for each dial a single digit is shown through a window in the face of the meter, or of the pointer type where a pointer indicates each digit. With the dial pointer type, adjacent pointers generally rotate in opposite directions due to the gearing mechanism.

 

Most domestic electricity meters must be read manually, whether by a representative of the power company or by the customer. Where the customer reads the meter, the reading may be supplied to the power company by telephone, post or over the internet. The electricity company will normally require a visit by a company representative at least annually in order to verify customer-supplied readings and to make a basic safety check of the meter.

 

In an induction type meter, creep is a phenomenon that can adversely affect accuracy, that occurs when the meter disc rotates continuously with potential applied and the load terminals open circuited. A test for error due to creep is called a creep test.

 

Two standards govern meter accuracy, ANSI C12.20 for North America and IEC 62053.

 

 

Sorry but I have no experience of how a home energy system might connect to the Power Grid?

 

How does grid interactive solar power work?

 

 

While the technology behind solar power may seem complex, when broken down, grid connect is easy to understand as it needs few components.

 

 

 

How-Grid-Solar-power-Works.gif

 

 

  • Sun shines on the
    generating DC electricity
  • The DC electricity is fed into an
    which converts it to 240V 50Hz ACelectricity.
  • The 240V AC electricity is used to power appliances in your home.
  • Surplus electricity is fed back into the main grid.

 

Whenever the sun shines, the solar cells generate electricity. The grid connect inverter converts the DC electricity produced by the solar panels into 240V AC electricity, which can then be used by the property/household.

 

 

 

If a grid connect system is producing more power than is being consumed, the surplus is fed into the mains power grid. Some electricity companies will meter the electricity fed into the grid by your system and provide a credit on your bill. Other companies will install a bi-directional meter which will run backwards as your system feeds electricity into the grid.

 

 

 

When the solar cells are not producing power, for example at night, your power is supplied by the mains power grid as usual. The energy retailer charges the usual rate for the power used.

 

 

OK so this suggests that a 'standard' Consumer Unit, may not 'run backwards' if you were delivering more power than what you are consuming. From a pure 'Physics' point of view, there would be a current flow from system with higher voltage potential, to lower potential, and this would generate current in the opposite direction. Not much good if the Consumer Unit would not wind the clocks back, effectively giving one some 'Credit'.

When my Water Meter got 'stolen' and the local Water Utility made me buy a new one. they fitted it, the wrong way around. For many months, I had no Water Bill to pay, as the reading was less than the previous month. They did eventually figure it out and turn it around, but still took time before it caught up with the last 'correct' Water Bill of several months earlier. Was hoping an Electic Meter would just 'run backwards' if the current flow was in the opposite direction.

I can see practical problems and safety issues of trying to hook ones home to a Generator ans leave it connected to the grid at the same time, due phase discrepancies. I assumed a Control Unit would be required to isolate the 'Grid' Power. from the alternate energy Home Power and convert and 'synchronise' the two power systems?

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People who are opposing the idea due to high cost are not factoring in "Bank Loan". Instead, of giving 2500 or 3500 pesos every month to electric company...just pay 1000 or so peso to the bank for next 20 or so years..just like one pays the electricity bill :biggrin_01: interest included..which will be fixed rate...not like rising cost of power..

 

The issue here is one of awareness...if enough people wants to go for alternative energy source, banks would be more than happy to make a new loan plan, just like they do for buying a car, bike or home.

 

I'm from a third world country and i understand how a small change in electricity cost effect a families budget...there were lots of protest in India during the last 5 years when the power companies here try to sneakly increase the prices with one stupid excuse to another....thank god for that, power cost here is still low at 2 to 3 pesos kwh, people who live on less than dollar a day...even a 100 peso increase in power bill effect a family budget.

 

This idea is great for third world countries ruled by mafia power companies..man....when im in cebu..and if 10 families agrees with the idea...i'm going to buy this if and when its become available.

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David_LivinginTalisay

David, we would all like an alternative 'free' power supply but while you and other like minded people are to be commended for the passion and emotion this subject creates, the facts that matter are very often conveniently missing or distorted. Ask the supplier to guarantee the claimed output without anyifs, buts or maybes! And obtain comparative costs that are truly representative,not 'cherry picked'.

 

The alternative energy industry is inundated with a diverse variety of participants ranging from those that are legitimate and factual based through to outright scam artists with a lot of opportunistic operators in the middle who thrive on government handouts from gullible politicians wanting to feel warm and fuzzy!

 

I am in an off grid industry and the biggest problem we have is with those that are over promoting products. This is causing tremendous harm as it is hard to get people back on track after they have been burnt.

 

There are no free meals and there aren't any free power supplies either.

 

Apart from the fact that they don't supply base load, all solar and wind powered alternatives are more expensive than conventional power supplies when 'apples are compared with apples'. I spent many years in Central Oz where there is far more sunlight than most places and even there solar systems did not come close to being viable. Diesel generators were the answer there.

 

The Oz government now has to subsidize solar systems by paying 80%+ of the capital costs and then subsidize power returned to the grid by >40cents / KW to make them appear viable. (Paid for by the mug taxpayer!)

 

The stirling engine has been around for many decades and often pops up as the mysterious core of yet another 'great creation'. None have gone any further after the government grants ran out.

 

I hope you get all the facts before parting with your hardearned cash!

 

 

'Ozepete' ,

 

You wrote "Diesel generators were the answer there".

 

In my Reply # 11 to this Thread I gave details of a 5KW Diesel Gen set that was being advertised for Php60,000 (seems to me to be a reasonable price - anyone got better prices ?)

 

I calculated the amount of Diesel Fuel Oil required to produce 1kWh

 

2.29 liters/hour for 5kWh

0.457 liters per kWh

On my VECO Bill. their 'Generation Charge' is 4.4078 /kWh

For a private Generator to compete with VECO Generating cost, the Generator Fuel Oil would need to be under Php9.645 per liter to run this Generator at same price of VECO.

 

However you would not have all the overheads and additional Charges to compete with that pushes the Total Veco Bill Price to be Php8.662 /kWh ie 1.95 higher than the quoted VECO Generation Cost.

 

I hardly think one can buy "Fuel 0# or -10# light diesel oil Lubricating Oil" @ less than Php18.8/liter (unless the Diesel Generator might be modified to be able to run off used Cooking Oil).

So on the basis of these calculations, one cant run a Diesel Gen set to produce electricity cheaper than VECO (and that is not factoring in the cost of the Diesel Generator and its maintenance).

The calculations that I showed for the Infinea Power Dish, (even if adjusted for Cebu hours of sunlight) did indeed show it can be rather significantly cheaper than Veco (and that was factoring in the depreciating cost of the Infinea PowerDish over estimated 25 Year Lifespan).

The BIG advantage of the Infinea PowerDish, is there are no running costs and maintenance limited to change of coolant fluid every 5 Years and lubricating oil, every 10 Years, so Infinea suggests?

Pete can you please explain that bit about "they don't supply base load"?

"Apart from the fact that they don't supply base load, all solar and wind powered alternatives are more expensive than conventional power supplies when 'apples are compared with apples'."

Not sure if such would apply to the infinea PowerDish, even when I understood what you mean by that? From what I read about Infinea PowerDish, is that it is self contained. Perhaps it has a battery supplied, to supply 'base load' to power up the Heliostat and drive the dual tracking servo motors, so the Dish starts pointing at the sun and generating electricity (that can then power these Servo Motors, Heliostat, Control Board and the Cooling Fans?).

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Ozepete

c

Edited by Ozepete
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Ozepete

David, we would all like an alternative 'free' power supply but while you and other like minded people are to be commended for the passion and emotion this subject creates, the facts that matter are very often conveniently missing or distorted. Ask the supplier to guarantee the claimed output without anyifs, buts or maybes! And obtain comparative costs that are truly representative,not 'cherry picked'.

 

The alternative energy industry is inundated with a diverse variety of participants ranging from those that are legitimate and factual based through to outright scam artists with a lot of opportunistic operators in the middle who thrive on government handouts from gullible politicians wanting to feel warm and fuzzy!

 

I am in an off grid industry and the biggest problem we have is with those that are over promoting products. This is causing tremendous harm as it is hard to get people back on track after they have been burnt.

 

There are no free meals and there aren't any free power supplies either.

 

Apart from the fact that they don't supply base load, all solar and wind powered alternatives are more expensive than conventional power supplies when 'apples are compared with apples'. I spent many years in Central Oz where there is far more sunlight than most places and even there solar systems did not come close to being viable. Diesel generators were the answer there.

 

The Oz government now has to subsidize solar systems by paying 80%+ of the capital costs and then subsidize power returned to the grid by >40cents / KW to make them appear viable. (Paid for by the mug taxpayer!)

 

The stirling engine has been around for many decades and often pops up as the mysterious core of yet another 'great creation'. None have gone any further after the government grants ran out.

 

I hope you get all the facts before parting with your hardearned cash!

 

 

'Ozepete' ,

 

You wrote "Diesel generators were the answer there".

 

In my Reply # 11 to this Thread I gave details of a 5KW Diesel Gen set that was being advertised for Php60,000 (seems to me to be a reasonable price - anyone got better prices ?)

 

I calculated the amount of Diesel Fuel Oil required to produce 1kWh

 

2.29 liters/hour for 5kWh

0.457 liters per kWh

On my VECO Bill. their 'Generation Charge' is 4.4078 /kWh

For a private Generator to compete with VECO Generating cost, the Generator Fuel Oil would need to be under Php9.645 per liter to run this Generator at same price of VECO.

 

However you would not have all the overheads and additional Charges to compete with that pushes the Total Veco Bill Price to be Php8.662 /kWh ie 1.95 higher than the quoted VECO Generation Cost.

 

I hardly think one can buy "Fuel 0# or -10# light diesel oil Lubricating Oil" @ less than Php18.8/liter (unless the Diesel Generator might be modified to be able to run off used Cooking Oil).

Sorry Dave, I didn't explain properly

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David, the 650.000$ device gave me a business idea. If you will be ready to invest that much, let me know - I will setup the world's first Human Energy Gym. The concept is very simple, the local guys who will want to get muscular can join my gym and exercise thus generating electricity on specially designed trademills, and they will not only do it for free but will even get paid. The only drawback: there will be huge line ups in front of your house. But it will be very green.

 

:thats-funny:

Edited by digiteye
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thebob

 

I think the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle needs to be applied here,

 

Liquid Salt, is indeed a method for storing heat, but not very practical for a home supply set up. Also not appropriate to the Infinea PowerDish sice the Solar Thermal Energy is not being used to generate Steam that drives a Turbine, that spins an Alternator. The linear motion of the Stirling Engine, drives a linear alternator, that directly produces to 120/240V, 50/60 Hz, Single/3 Phase, Electricity.

 

The stirling engine is ambivilent about the heat source that powers it. So storing the energy in a medium with a high heat capacity would be very simple. For example if the solar concentrator was used to heat heavy oil, this hot oil could be used to power the stirling engine after dark.

 

Charging batteries from this AC power and then drawing power from inverters connected to these batteries (or directly for LED lighting or Florescent tubes running of 12V DC modules), is probably the only practical solution for power when the sun is not shining.

 

It may be a practical solution but it is also expensive and inefficient. By storing the energy as heat there are no "components" to break. I envisage a system that heats a high heat capacity oil or salt, that medium is stored in a well insulated container for use after sunset. The system can be easily supplemented for prolonged cloudy periods by a simple heater for the stirling engine. This back up heat source could be oil, kero, lpg charcoal or even coco husks!

 

It is also important in these kinds of system to use mechanical aircon, ref and freezer pumps. There is no reason to have your power transition from heat(solar) to mechanical(stirling engine) to electrical(alternator) to chemical(battery) then back to electrical and finally mechanical again, in the AC, ref or freezer pump. Large automotive style pumps driven directly from a srirling or ic motor are several magnitudes more efficient, than an electrical generator powering domestic appliances.

 

 

If you want a small test bed then" The Sun Runner, a solar-powered Stirling Cycle Engine" could be used to power a small PM alternator if you build a tracking device.

 

 

The Sun Runner, a solar-powered Stirling Cycle Engine, offers a dramatic demonstration of energy conversion. This motor with its parabolic mirror can be attached to any conventional camera tripod. When properly aimed at the sun, incoming solar energy is focused on the heat cap of the engine and is converted to rotary motion. Each unit is test run at our factory.

 

 

Specifications: 2,000 RPM and up, 8 1/4" long X 3" wide, 3/4 inch bore, 3 1/4" flywheel, aluminum precision castings. Parabolic Mirror is 18" diameter polished aluminum.

 

 

Unit comes complete with motor, parabolic mirror, and wrenches. Standard camera tripod is not supplied. This engine is completely assembled and ready to run. NOTE: This engine can also run as a horizontal engine with our NO 90 alcohol burner.

 

 

Parabolic mirror can be purchased separately in Solar Accessories.

 

 

Solar-4E Engine only is $180.00.

Details

 

 

SKU 14

Weight 6.00 lbs

Price: $250.00

 

http://www.pmresearchinc.com/store/product.php?productid=3096&cat=5&page=1

 

I like your suggestion of using a Fuel Cell as a power source! One needs Hydrogen, but this can be produced from Electrolysis of Water. So instead of charging batteries you use the electricity produced from Solar Heat, to create Hydrogen, that is needed to recharge a Fuel Cell.

 

PEM fuel cells are quite efficient at producing hydrogen when electrical power is supplied. They work backwards as well as forwards.

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Given a choice, I would go with good ol' fashioned brown coal. Tried and true, cheap as dirt, the world is awash with the stuff. Maybe one day one of these new fangled ideas will actually prove to be practical but until then brown coal does it for me! cooking.gif

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