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David_LivinginTalisay

 

FOCUS YOUR ENERGY

 

Infinia's system is the world's first Stirling-based solar power generation system suitable for automotive scale manufacturing. The PowerDish is scalable from small arrays to multi-MWs deployed in utility-scale solar power plants.

 

See how a Stirling engine works or download a PowerDish spec sheet (PDF).

 

post-198-045855900 1288335871_thumb.jpg

 

post-198-011714400 1288335867_thumb.jpg post-198-010156700 1288335868_thumb.jpg post-198-003039500 1288335869_thumb.jpg post-198-016215600 1288335870_thumb.jpg

 

I posted to this Thread - Coal plant at SRP News of the 'PowerDish, by Infinea

 

 

http://www.livinginc...ndpost&p=228442

 

I have sent inquiry to http://thepowerdish.com/contact.html to find out how much one of these 3KW PowerDishes costs.

 

I want one in my own home!

 

 

Just think if they mounted a whole 'Farm' of these on the hills around Cebu City!

http://www.infiniaco.../powerdish.html

 

 

I have had a reply to my e-mail, from Infinia Corporation

 

The good News being that the Infinea 3KW PowerDish is expected to only be about US$15,000.00

 

At current Exchange Rates this is under Php650,000.00

 

This PowerDish has a lifespan of 25 years, so depreciate the PowerDish cost Php650,000 over Lifespan of 25 Years and you have Php26,000.00pa

post-198-097227400 1288335607_thumb.jpg

or Php2,166.67 per month, for 38.4KWh/day x 30 = 1,152 KWH/month,

Thus cost of Php1.88/Kwh

My Veco Bill Total = Php8.67/KWh

and likely to get more expensive over next 25 years, not to mention the frequent Power Cuts!

That was the Good News!

The BAD News being they wont sell to individuals, and their current business model does not employ 'Distributors'!

Can anyone tell me how to hook up with a "solar asset developer" willing to offer these in Asia and especially the Philippines.

Any such 'solar asset developer' Company that gets a Contract to supply the Philippines with Infinea PowerDish is going to get filthy rich from this?

 

Here some quick search results that might be worth investigating:-

 

 

 

post-198-097227400 1288335607_thumb.jpg

 

fromcleardot.gif:......Infinia Corporation <[email protected]>

to:cleardot.gif........."[email protected]"

date: ..... 28 October 2010 06:13

subjectcleardot.gif....PowerDish

Infinia Corporation, based in Kennewick, Washington, has developed the Infinia PowerDish.

 

The PowerDish is a solar power system that produces 3 kW AC electricity using reflected sunlight as the energy source. The PowerDish is priced and performs competitively with all other solar technologies in the marketplace today. When we get to market we expect each unit to sell for around $15,000. This is just an estimate.

 

The PowerDish product launch will target large scale (1 MW and up) deployments only. Residential systems and small arrays for individual purchase will not be available for the foreseeable future.

 

Our near-term focus for the PowerDish 3 kW solar system is on direct sales to solar asset developers operating around the world.

 

Our business model at this time does not employ the use of distributors.

 

At this time, neither solar systems, nor components of the system (including engines), nor test units are available for evaluation or development programs.

 

Please check back to our website and look for new developments in our production of the Infinia PowerDish

 

www.infiniacorp.com/)

Edited by David_LivinginTalisay
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david why dont you buy one and tell us how much you save and if it works after a few years we can all start buying them... but do hire a guard to protect your mirror or it will be for sale at the loca

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Very Good Info...There was a related article today on anti-pinoy on how to get off the grid and drive communities in local ares to adopt alternative power source to avoid high cost of electricity...if atleast 10 families in one area decide on any alternate technology..it could be done...I think couple of more families could share 38 kw per day and the cost would be even lower..

 

http://antipinoy.com/dont-get-mad-at-meralco-and-the-power-utilities-get-even/

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I'd wonder how this works in the PH? In America, you still connect to the grid, but when you produce more than you use, the meter registers that. Essentially the grid is your storage cell. If you can't do that, you're knackered.

 

3KW peak for $15K seems a little high, retail for 3KW worth of Sharp solar cells seems to run $13,500. So a little high but OK.

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By looking at the design of this device the price is ridiculously high. It is nothing but a sort of microwave oven redesigned. From the message its also clear that they could supply devices for home use, but they don't want to. I think this industry is either under pressure of the fossil energy giants or they use the scarcity of energy sources for their own wealth generation instead of green power generation.

 

How nice it would be if the Gates Foundation would invest into such technology to make it affordable (not as if it could not be affordable even today). But they are busy with vaccines and CO2 emission calculation.

 

Btw 25 years break even is valid for nuclear power plants, not for sun collectors. Its a bloody rip off.

Edited by digiteye
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David_LivinginTalisay

By looking at the design of this device the price is ridiculously high.

....

Btw 25 years break even is valid for nuclear power plants, not for sun collectors. Its a bloody rip off.

 

What do you base that assertion on, that $15K is "ridiculously high"?

  1. The cost of a 15' dia mirrored parabolic Dish?
  2. The Stirliing Engine with integral linear alternator, that produces 3.2KW of AC power?
  3. The Heliostat. driven dual axis sun tracking system?

The Infinea PowerDish is said to last at least 25 years with minimal maintenance (fluid change every 5 years).

 

So that is just $600/year as the written off costs of the Infinea PowerDish

The Infinea PowerDish is said to produce 38.4KWH per day, so that is at least 360 x 38.4 = 13,824KWH per year

 

That is a generation cost of $0.0434/KWH (Php1.87)

 

Perhaps 4.34 cents for 1 Kiliwatt Hour is not low cost electricity in the USA?

 

But I would be very grateful to only pay Php1.87 for 1 x kilowatt Hour here in Cebu!

 

My last VECO Bill (Total Costs/ Billed kWh) was Php7.73 for 1 x kiloWatt hour

That us a SAVING of Php5.86 per kWh

$15,000 = Php660,000

So after 112, 628 HOURS (2,933 days or little over 8 Years), the SAVINGS have paid for the $15,000 Infinea PowerDish. here in CEBU, using current VECO costs + Charges.

This assumes $15,000 cost for Infinea PowerDish, and that VECO charges remain the same as they are now for 8 years!

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David_LivinginTalisay

By looking at the design of this device the price is ridiculously high.

....

Btw 25 years break even is valid for nuclear power plants, not for sun collectors. Its a bloody rip off.

 

Infinia PowerDish

infinia-powerdish-1.jpg

Kennewick, WA based solar power technology manufacturer Infinia Corporation has been rolling out a solar powered generating dish called the PowerDish. The PowerDish is a self-contained sun tracking unit that Infinia claims can beat traditional photovoltaic panels at reducing the cost of energy for homes and businesses large and small.

 

The dish uses their Sterling Generator Closed Loop System to power the unit. Infinia says in their fact sheet that the PowerDish achieves a 24% peak conversion efficiency can operate on sloped terrain and hills. There's no pluming needed, it's grid safe as well as remotely operated. Using one PowerDish will eliminate over 13,000 pounds carbon dioxide as compared to traditional energy production methods.

What do you base that assertion on, that $15K is "ridiculously high"?

 

infinia-powerdish-small-array.jpg

  1. The cost of a 21' dia mirrored parabolic Dish?
  2. The Stirliing Engine with integral linear alternator, that produces 3.2KW of AC power?
  3. The Heliostat. driven dual axis sun tracking system?

The Infinea PowerDish is said to last at least 25 years with minimal maintenance (coolant fluid change every 5 years, tracker oil every 10 years).

 

So that is just $600/year as the written off costs of the Infinea PowerDish

The Infinea PowerDish is said to produce 38.4KWH per day, so that is at least 360 x 38.4 = 13,824KWH per year

 

That is a generation cost of $0.0434/KWH (Php1.87)

 

Perhaps 4.34 cents for 1 Kiliwatt Hour is not low cost electricity in the USA?

 

But I would be very grateful to only pay Php1.87 for 1 x kilowatt Hour here in Cebu!

 

My last VECO Bill (Total Costs/ Billed kWh) was Php7.73 for 1 x kiloWatt hour

That us a SAVING of Php5.86 per kWh

$15,000 = Php660,000

So after 112, 628 HOURS (2,933 days or little over 8 Years), the SAVINGS have paid for the $15,000 Infinea PowerDish. here in CEBU, using current VECO costs + Charges.

This assumes $15,000 cost for Infinea PowerDish, and that VECO charges remain the same as they are now for 8 years!

 

I have just shown that here in the Philippines, the 'break even' comes after just 8 years (sooner if the VECO costs increase which is obvious they will?)

 

So I am confused how/why you drew this conclusion "Btw 25 years break even is valid for nuclear power plants, not for sun collectors. Its a bloody rip off."

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David_LivinginTalisay

For those who consider that US$15,000 for Infinea PowerDish that can produce 38.4kWh/day for 25 years. is too expensive, here is a PV panel system:-

Solar Power System For Big Houses And Business Firms

 

big_solar_system.JPG

Click Here for Larger Image

Price: P786,250.00

 

Code: COX-SP084

 

 

Highlights:

At a Glance...

  • 2.6 kW power system for heavy loads
  • 2 years warranty on solar panels, 1 yr on battery and controller
  • Clean, green, noiseless energy
  • Complete system nothing else to buy

Complete solar power system for big homes and business firms. Package include solar panels, inverter, controller and batteries. Nothing else to buy except the power wiring.

 

Harness the FREE power from the sun. As long as the sun shines, you never have to worry about rising power costs, blackouts and maintenance interruptions. It's like having your own power plant!

Load appliances Specifications Load watt (w) quantity Working hours (Hrsday) Power consumption (W/day)

Lighting Energy- saving lamps 11 W 8 6 528 Wh

computer LCD 100 W 2 5 1000 Wh

Printer Laser 250 W 1 1 250 Wh

Fax Ink-jet 150 W 1 1 150 Wh

Refrigerator 150L 100 W 1 24 800 Wh

Washing machines 300 W 1 0.5 150 Wh

Microwave ovens (option) 1000 W 1 1 1000 Wh

Satellite TV receivers/VCD 25 W 1 6 150 Wh

colour TV 21" 95 W 1 6 570 Wh

Water Pump 400 W 1 1 400 Wh

Total 2600 W 4998 Wh

 

Equipment configuration:

Solar panels: 1600Wp: 10*160W (1580x805x50mm) 0.488 cu m Weight: 200KG

maintenance-free batteries: 800AH/12V 4*200AH ( 520X240X245MM)

Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter: 3000 W

Controller: 48V 60A

Price (FOB Cebu installation excluded) : P 754,800

Please contact us for installation costs. This cost is dependent on your geographical location, loads setup and building layout.

 

Edited by David_LivinginTalisay
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Well David, there is at least one thing you haven't factored-in - the sun does not shine for 24 hours a day and not at all at times you need electricity the most. So you'd need to factor-in the cost of storing all that power you've generated and then to convert the 12 or 24 volts DC back to 220 volts AC. To help you with your calculations, sunset is generally around 5.30pm throughout the year - though the sun may be too low after around 4.30pm or so - and your peak usage will be from that time and for at least the next 7 hours. I would suggest that those additional costs, including the maintenance and replacement of the battery bank, would more than double the figure you quote.

 

 

 

 

 

Mark

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David_LivinginTalisay

Well David, there is at least one thing you haven't factored-in - the sun does not shine for 24 hours a day and not at all at times you need electricity the most. So you'd need to factor-in the cost of storing all that power you've generated and then to convert the 12 or 24 volts DC back to 220 volts AC. To help you with your calculations, sunset is generally around 5.30pm throughout the year - though the sun may be too low after around 4.30pm or so - and your peak usage will be from that time and for at least the next 7 hours. I would suggest that those additional costs, including the maintenance and replacement of the battery bank, would more than double the figure you quote.

 

Mark

 

Mark.

 

I think you did not look at the Power Output graph?

 

This shows it only produces 3.2kW for 8 hours of the day.

 

The figure I used was that 38.4kWh/day, which is I presume the 'average' over 15 hours

Obviously there will be a much lower temperature differential for the Sterling engine to work with, at sunrise and at sunset, so power is considerably reduced.

 

64o F is the lowest recorded temperature in Cebu over last 21 years (with average Low being 77o F) . The Highest Recorded Temperature being 102o F (with average High being 88o F)

These figures do need to be adjusted however, since this Power Output Data, was estimate based on NSRDB data for mid-summer day in Daggett, CA

7o F is the lowest recorded temperature in Daggett over last 35 years (with average Low being 53o F) . The Highest Recorded Temperature being 117o F (with average High being 81o F)

Sorry have not found actual hours when sun is shining, other than Hours of Daylight/Day.

For Cebu, Latitude 10o gives between 12.6 hours of sunlight Jun/Jul, to 11.4 hours Dec/Jan

For Daggett, Latitude 34.85o gives between 14.3 hours of sunlight Jun/Jul, to 9.7 hours Dec/Jan

 

So that 38.4 kWh data is based on 1.7 hours more sunlight/day than we get here in Cebu,

 

So perhaps it could be a 5.44 kWh/day over estimate, and should use the figure 32.96 kWh/day as max, and 31.76 kWh/day as a min. (Average of 32.96 kWh)

To be more accurate you need to factor in reduction for when it is raining?

All this will do is increase the number of Years for payback above 8, but is not likely to increase it more than 25% I would think

post-198-029447100 1288439725_thumb.jpg

 

 

But you are right like PV solar panel energy, they don't work when there is no sunlight.

 

Not sure where you get "your peak usage will be from that time and for at least the next 7 hours", after the sun is going down?

 

Electric for lighting does not take much power (especially if you use low energy tube bulbs or LED lighting). Don't know about you, but we don't need aircon as much at night - more to remove humidity than heat.

 

I thought if one generates more power (3.2kW) than you are actually using, you are feeding power back into the grid, and you Electric Meter starts going backwards.

Therefore paying for what you might use @ night, potentially.

As you mentioned, to be totally independent of the Grid (for when they have black outs @ night), then you will need Batteries, Chargers, and Inverters also, as per PV energy system.

You would need that anyway if you want power/lights when your Utility company not supplying, which seems to be getting more frequent and for longer periods.

Edited by David_LivinginTalisay
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smokey

david why dont you buy one and tell us how much you save and if it works after a few years we can all start buying them... but do hire a guard to protect your mirror or it will be for sale at the local scrap yard in one week/// here i complained about spending 60,000peso on a generator and your looking to spend 650,000p oh well your right its cool to be green

Edited by robert51
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Diesel Generator — Calamba City

5kw diesel generator 230Vac 60 hz 1Phase 21.8 Ampere

ENGINE TYPE : Single-Cylinder, vertical, 4-stroke air -cooled diesel engine 9.2 HP/3600rpm Bore Stroke (mm) 86*72

Displacement Capacity (CC) 411cc

Fuel Consumption rate (g/kw.h) <280

Fuel 0# or -10# light diesel oil Lubricating Oil

Volume (L) 1.65L ,

Combustion System Dierect Injection

Continuous running time (hr) 7 hr at fuel tank capacity (L) 16L .

 

I'm actually surprised. Diesel gen-sets I know of in the US were 1,800 rpm, not 3,600. I think that, if you recall it, my Italian made alternator (i still have it) was rated at 3,600 rpm. So, I was thinking that, if I were to mount a diesel engine up to it, I would have to have a 2:1 reduction in order to run it from the diesel engine. Now, it appears as though I would not have to do that?

Edited by Admin
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David_LivinginTalisay

I'd wonder how this works in the PH? In America, you still connect to the grid, but when you produce more than you use, the meter registers that. Essentially the grid is your storage cell. If you can't do that, you're knackered.

 

3KW peak for $15K seems a little high, retail for 3KW worth of Sharp solar cells seems to run $13,500. So a little high but OK.

 

 

If they really do make that 3.2Kw Infinia PowerDish available for US$15,000 as the market price, then that is all you pay for. Nothing else to buy, except the cabling to hook up the built in linear alternator to your house mains supply.

 

Anyone know what else may be required to have such generator and grid supply connect, so you can feed surplus power into the grid and run your Utility meter backwards?

If "3KW worth of Sharp solar cells seems to run $13,500" then presumably there is extra cost for Control Box, Inverter, and Deep Cycle batteries (or is that including these items?)

 

 

 

My Post showed Price: P786,250.00 for 2.6 kW PV Solar power system, which is more than the Php660,000* of the Infinea 3.2Kw PowerDish 'system'.

* assumes that the estimated market price 'suggested by Infinia, becomes the price for Philippines deployment if it ever happens?

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In my opinion, David, I would prefer to go with Solar and battery storage, rather than the dish idea that you posted. While the dish idea would provide power for x hours per day at x kw, the solar array would store the power in banks of batteries which would contain reserve energy for cloudy / rainy days and during night time.

 

I'm 44, so I wonder if it is still feasible for me to consider a solar array? I mean, would I get a decent return back out of the array before I die? That is taking into mind that, through the luck of the Irish, I were to live to see 65 years of age.

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