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Might be rather more useful/helpful to this Thread Discussion on 'Condo Hotels', if you explained exactly WHY you came to this opinion 'Diver Douglas' ?

 

 

 

 

I would rather buy condos and rent them out myself. Furnish them the way I or my tenants want.

 

Yeah finding tenants, collecting rent and doing maintenance does involve work but that is why they call it work.

 

If anyone wants to buy condos and have me manage them for them I would be willing to do that for a fee. I will open a property management company if there is enough interest.

Edited by Diver Douglas
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What I know about condo hotels

Here is some information relating to a Condotel that I am buying - Ultima Residences - Ramos Tower. Turnover date December 2011   I did not buy it to live in, but rather the Lifestyle that

Harbour Plaza North Point Studio Apartment - 28 Sq.m Self-Rating: **** See Reviews 1 King size bed, 1 Bathroom 28 Sq.m (301 Sq.ft) Minimum length of stay: 1 month More privacy than hotels

David_LivinginTalisay

I'm not sure why anyone would want to rent a condotel anyway. When I am on vacation I have no intention of preparing my own meals, making my own beds cleaning up the room. When I am on vacation I am on vacation from all that. I want to be spoiled a little bit and let somebody else do the work. IMHO forget the condotel and get a nice room in a great hotel and pretend you are royalty a little bit before going back to the grind.

 

Doug and Sally

 

Many Hotels provide Tea/Coffee making facilities, and sometimes a Fridge. Some Hotel Suites, do provide crockery, utensils, Microwave oven, and a sink in case you want to have a snack or a meal in your room, to save the inconvenience of always having to go out to eat, or the high cost of Room Service, if provided. There is nothing to say you have to prepare your own meals, just the option to do so is available if you so wish.

 

Who said anything about making your own beds and cleaning up the room?

 

Certainly from what I read about these Ultima Residences Condotel offerings, the Management Service provided by the Crown Regency, will be the same in these Ultima Residences as in the Crown Regency Hotel except the cost of the room is lower @ Php2,000 a night typically.

 

You get the same Quality of Service and comfort, for a reduced price. Perhaps you like spending money on a Hotel Room, when you are on Holiday, but I prefer 'Good Value for Money' so you have more money to really enjoy yourself on other things than a room for the 5 x S's - Sleep in, and have a Shower, Shit and a Shave, and Sex hopefully!

Edited by David_LivinginTalisay
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Might be rather more useful/helpful to this Thread Discussion on 'Condo Hotels', if you explained exactly WHY you came to this opinion 'Diver Douglas' ?

 

 

 

 

I would rather buy condos and rent them out myself. Furnish them the way I or my tenants want.

 

Yeah finding tenants, collecting rent and doing maintenance does involve work but that is why they call it work.

 

If anyone wants to buy condos and have me manage them for them I would be willing to do that for a fee. I will open a property management company if there is enough interest.

 

Ordinarily I would agree with you Douglas but this isn't the kind - or size - of property you would normally classify as a "Condo". It's a 28 square metre space including CR and balcony(?) and that's smaller than some hotel bedrooms I've stayed in. The development is simply a hotel with a difference: the hotelier gets other people to finance the cost of building the hotel and on top of that furnishing, finishing and equipping all the rooms and then charges those same people 50% of the room rate for the "privilege" of them managing it. And since I doubt the hotelier's construction costs are anything like the 64 thousand-plus per square metre they're charging, it's a great earner for them for both the short and medium-to-long terms.

 

Unlike you who manages his own properties, I don't think David has any option but to join their managed scheme - unless, of course, he can persuade some other gullible mug to buy it off him. If he were to manage it himself, he'd still need to furnish and equip it to at least the same standard as other, managed, rooms albeit probably somewhat cheaper than 420,000 Pesos. But he will have the problem of renting it and keeping it occupied for as many days a year as possible - and he will be in competition not only with the building's management company, but every other hotelier and landlord in Cebu. Plus he will have to employ someone to clean his unit, change the linens and make sure all the appliances are kept in good, safe working order. You can be sure that he would also have to pay quite high "Association" fees as well as having to buy water and electricity from the management at inflated prices.

 

Offering zero percent financing could be a sweetener but, in my experience, there's no such thing as a free lunch. They will recoup that lost interest - and more - and they will have taken that "deal" into account when they set their selling prices.

 

 

 

 

Mark

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smokey

Might be rather more useful/helpful to this Thread Discussion on 'Condo Hotels', if you explained exactly WHY you came to this opinion 'Diver Douglas' ?

 

 

 

 

I would rather buy condos and rent them out myself. Furnish them the way I or my tenants want.

 

Yeah finding tenants, collecting rent and doing maintenance does involve work but that is why they call it work.

 

If anyone wants to buy condos and have me manage them for them I would be willing to do that for a fee. I will open a property management company if there is enough interest.

 

Ordinarily I would agree with you Douglas but this isn't the kind - or size - of property you would normally classify as a "Condo". It's a 28 square metre space including CR and balcony(?) and that's smaller than some hotel bedrooms I've stayed in. The development is simply a hotel with a difference: the hotelier gets other people to finance the cost of building the hotel and on top of that furnishing, finishing and equipping all the rooms and then charges those same people 50% of the room rate for the "privilege" of them managing it. And since I doubt the hotelier's construction costs are anything like the 64 thousand-plus per square metre they're charging, it's a great earner for them for both the short and medium-to-long terms.

 

Unlike you who manages his own properties, I don't think David has any option but to join their managed scheme - unless, of course, he can persuade some other gullible mug to buy it off him. If he were to manage it himself, he'd still need to furnish and equip it to at least the same standard as other, managed, rooms albeit probably somewhat cheaper than 420,000 Pesos. But he will have the problem of renting it and keeping it occupied for as many days a year as possible - and he will be in competition not only with the building's management company, but every other hotelier and landlord in Cebu. Plus he will have to employ someone to clean his unit, change the linens and make sure all the appliances are kept in good, safe working order. You can be sure that he would also have to pay quite high "Association" fees as well as having to buy water and electricity from the management at inflated prices.

 

Offering zero percent financing could be a sweetener but, in my experience, there's no such thing as a free lunch. They will recoup that lost interest - and more - and they will have taken that "deal" into account when they set their selling prices.

 

 

 

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

well you know mark if it was ((me)) and I was buying a unit I would inquire to the sales staff and see if there was a commission I could earn if I brought other people ;into the fold but that is just me.. It would be easy to test the waters even before I bought my unit by seeing if I could get others interested and I could possibly even be a realtor of sorts for the project.. but that would be me

Edited by robert51
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David_LivinginTalisay

Grand Cenia Hotel and Residences

DEVELOPER: Filinvest Land Incorporated.

grand-cenia.jpgceniafloorplan.jpg

SkyscraperCity > Asian Forums > Philippine Forums > Projects and Construction > Philippine Projects on the Rise > Visayas

 

Grand Cenia Hotel and Residences [27F|mix|u/c] Cebu City

grandcenia.jpg

 

Grand Cenia is a 25-storey hotel and residential tower that will rise along the premier location of Archbishop Reyes, corner Apitong Street, Lahug, Cebu City.

It will be situated on a 4,211-sqm property, strategically located within the Cebu central business district.

 

Condotel Floors

  • 7th to 18th floor: studio type condotel units, main amenity floor with swimming pool, kiddie pool,
    swimming pool deck, landscaped garden, and function rooms / hotel coffee shop

Condotel Units

Typical condotel units will have a standard size of 24.54 sq m. There are special condotel units on the 7th and 8th floors which will feature open patios to take advantage of their view of the city, the surrounding mountains and the swimming pool deck and landscaped area. There are also a number of condotel suite units which feature a hotel bedroom separate from the room receiving area. These units are sold and delivered bare of finishing and furnishing.

 

Condotel

 

Area (sq. m.)..........24.54

Payment Schemes

 

A ) - SPOT CASH (10% discount)

Total Contract Price...........................................Php2,217,500

Reservation Fee......................................................Php50,000

Payable within 7 days after reservation...........Php1,950,750

Retention (payable upon unit turnover)............Php 216,750

B ) - 36 Months Deferred

Total Contract Price..........................................Php2,437,232

Reservation Fee.....................................................Php50,000

Monthly Amortization.(x36).................................Php 66,312

 

C) - 20-30-50 Scheme

 

Total Contract Price..........................................Php2,524,814

Reservation Fee....................................................Php50,000

Down payment (20% of TCP - Res. Fee) ............Php454,963

30% Monthly Amortization.(x36)...............'.........Php21,030

50% payable in full upon unit turnover.....'.....Php1,262,407

 

 

 

Grand Cenia condotel proposal kit

 

 

Condotel Income Computation

A condotel unit owner’s share of the Rental Pool Income is computed on a per square meter basis. A square meter of actual condotel unit area is

equivalent to full square meter for purposes of income computation. Such as 25 sqm of actual condotel unit has 25 square meters of area share.

The formula for the computation of a condotel unit owner’s share of the Rental Pool Income is as follows;

 

A= Quarterly Rental Pool Income

B= Number of Days Condotel was Operational for the Quarter

 

C= Total Contributed Area to the Rental Pool per unit owner

D= Total Area of Rental Pool (all the member’s units combined)

E= Number of Days the Unit is in the Pool

 

 

The Individual’s Usages Income shall be computed as follows:

 

(A/B ) x (C/D) x E

 

 

 

Initial Room Rate Assumption (Php/Night) Php3,200.00

Disbursements to be Deducted........ Operating Expenses

.........................................................Maintenance Expenses

.........................................................Management Fees

.........................................................Taxes

.........................................................Other Expenses Incurred in the Regular

.........................................................Hotel Operations

Rough Assumptions - Rental Pool Income

Number of Rooms ................................432

Rate per Night .....................................3,200.00

Occupancy ......................................... 85%

Room Revenue / night.......................... 1,175,040.00

Room Revenue / month (@30 days)........35,251,200.00

Assuming Rate of Expenses at..................65%

Potential Cash Distributable as Rental

Pool Income (on average per month).......12,337,920.00

Condotel Area ......................................11,187.08

Rental pool Income / sqm / month...........1,102.87

Typical Area..........................................24.27

Income / Unit / Month............................26,766.71

Expected Annual Room Rate Increase.......8%

Return on Investments...........................15.21%

Payback Period in Years...........................6.5737

 

 

Edited by David_LivinginTalisay
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Grand Cenia Hotel and Residences

 

There are not many units left of that project to buy into. What is left is not the choice units, with some facing into the new building being built on the next lot. Yeah I know that the hotel rooms get pooled into all the other units. Does the contract ONLY allow you to stay in your EXACT unit for your 28 days?

 

Buying a unit that does'nt have a good view my be harder to sell in the future.

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David_LivinginTalisay

Which Condel is the Better Investment?

Ultima Residences - Ramos Tower (FTRDC) or Grand Cenia Hotel and Residences (Filinvest)

Condotel

 

Area (sq. m.).......................27.5........................24.54

Total Contract Price (Cash) ......Php1,857,248..................Php2,217,500

Total Contract Price (30/40/30) ..Php1,857,248......(20/30/50) Php2,524,814

Room Rate Assumption (Php/Night).....Php2,0000 .....................Php3,200

Condotel Program......................Optional....................Compulsory

Free Nights...........................30..........................14

Edited by David_LivinginTalisay
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David_LivinginTalisay

Grand Cenia Hotel and Residences

 

There are not many units left of that project to buy into. What is left is not the choice units, with some facing into the new building being built on the next lot. Yeah I know that the hotel rooms get pooled into all the other units. Does the contract ONLY allow you to stay in your EXACT unit for your 28 days?

 

Buying a unit that does'nt have a good view my be harder to sell in the future.

 

I did look at Filinvest Grand Cenia Hotel and Residences but the Condo Units were a bit smaller, and more expensive, than FTRDC Ultima Residences - Ramos Towers

What I did not like about the Grand Cenia Condotel units is assignment to the Pooled Rental Scheme is compulsory are written into the Title Deed Restrictions. The number of Free Days is only 14 and restctions on use. Seems one is liable to Association Dues and Maintenance Fees, even though the unit is in the Rental Pool. There is also 14 days pa blocked off from Renting for Maintenance.

All in all I liked the Ultima Residences better as the Condotel Leaseback Program is OPTIONAL and no Title Deed 'Restrictions' making it 'mandatory'. Thus one is free to Rent privately or sell the Unit on the Open Market.

There is a Restriction that the Buyer must be/become a Member of Club Ultima.

I got to buy my Club Ultima Membership for approx Php90K instead of approx Php300K, a saving of over Php210K. My wife and my Father also got Membership Cards (+Php100 each)

 

I bought the last remaining 28 sq m Condotel Unit in Ramos Tower (15th Floor). I did not have the funds to consider units on the top 2 Floors

(they became available, since Penthouse Loft Units that were not selling, had design changed to be more Condotel Units).

You can discover these 'Restrictions' and 'Limitations' for Grand Cenia from this pdf Document

 

http://cebuinvestmen...grand-cenia.pdf

Condotel owners of the Grand Cenia stand to enjoy three major benefits

Edited by David_LivinginTalisay
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David_LivinginTalisay

Imperial Palace Waterpark Resort and Spa

 

imperial-palace-mactan.jpg imperial-palace-condotel.jpg

 

 

visit this link for Imperial Palace completion pictures

Resort Benefits and Privileges

 

Hotel Rooms : 50% discount - for usage of hotel room over and above the alloted 60 nights stay. (Subject to hotel availability and reservation)

 

Waterparks, Fitness Club : Privileged use for owner & spouse plus 2 children below 12 years old, maintenance fee of Ph 1,000 per day.

 

Restaurants,Food & Beverage : 20 to 40% discount

 

Spa,Marines and others : Various discounts available

Return on Investments

- guaranteed 8% of actual investment annually

From the 4th year onwards - a pro-rata share of the hotel room revenue

Buy Back Option

3 years after the start of hotel operation, with your consent, the developer will buy back the unit at the Original Purchase Price

Edited by David_LivinginTalisay
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CONDOTEL FAQ's

http://cebuinvestmen...ial-palace.html

 

Frequently asked questions:

  1. In a nutshell, describe the essence of the condotel concept?
    Condotels are usually large, high rise, luxury hotels operated by big names in the hotel industry such as; Trump, Hilton, Regent Intenational. Four Seasons, Ritz Calton, Bulgari and Le Meridien. Condo-Hotels have condominiums that are sold to individual investors who may use their unit as a vacation home whenever they like. When they are not using their unit, owners have the option of placing it into an organized rental program. Rental revenue which is shared with the operator, helps defray the owner's expenses.
     
  2. What are the benefits to the condotel buyer/owner? Owners have a luxurious vacation home in a premier location at their disposal. Owners who choose to place their condotel unit in the property's rental program receive revenue which helps the expenses of ownership. Most condotels offer hassle-free vacation home ownership. The on-site management company takes care of all upkeep, maintenance and interaction with renters. Owners of condotel units have the right to resell the unit at any time. They keep any profits derived from the appreciation. Thus, condotels combine vacation home ownership with investment potential.
     
  3. What is the role of the Condotel Operator?
    The operator of the rental program, in exchange for a share of the revenue, markets the units as a hotel, takes reservations, operates the front desk, maintains the property and provides the services hotel guests expect, such as housekeeping, food, and beverage, and concierge.
     
  4. Describe the typical arrangement between the condo hotel buyer and the hotel management company?
    Some of the items spelled out in a typical owner agreement include:-
    The amount of revenue the condotel owner will receive
    The amount of revenue the hotel management company will receive
    Typical deductions before each of the parties receives their share, including money for a furniture, fixture and equipment reserve
    The financial responsibilites of the condotel owner, which usually include the real estate taxes, insurance, capital improvements and debt service.
    The financial responsibilities of the condo hotel management compancy, which usually include operational expenses like housekeeping, maintenance, front office, administrative and marketing.
    A rental program agreement which outlines the number of days per year and requirements notice for owners regarding use of their condotel units.
     
  5. Can condotel owners rent our their units themselves and keep most or all of the revenue? In most condotel properties, they can, but doing so defeats one of the prime benefits of condotel which is hassle-free ownership. Most owners prefer to have the onsite professional management company find and handle renters. In additiona, owners of condotel are likely to receive a higher level of rental income by participating in the property's rental program which is administered by a recognized professional operator that can capitalize on the hotel's global affiliation, its brand name, its sophisticated reservation system and management expertise.

  6. What are the keys to a sucessful acquisition of condotel?
    The essential ingredients to a successful ownership of condotel include the following: good location, an attractive amenity package, a respected developer, a strong brand and good management.
     
  7. Are developers willing to guarantee the rental of the condotel units when not in use by the owners?
    No, they are not. Developers are aware that potential security law issues can arise out of the sale of condotel units. In order to avoid coming under the scrutiny of any national or local government investment rulings, developers refrain from setting rental revenue expectations from prospective buyers. Instead, the developer's emphasis is the condotel marketing materials and sales presentations is always on the real estate itself. Generally, it is best to consider a condotel unit purchase to be similar to the purchase of a second home or vacation house. Construct a beautiful building in a good location and there would be an appreciation of the investment over the years. As icing on the cake, owners who choose to participate in the rental program can receive income from its rental to help defray ownership costs.
     
  8. Where are condotels located?
    Condo-Hotels are typically located in highly desirable areas, often near the ocean, theme parks, golf courses, or in major cities.
     
  9. Are all condotels newly built?
    There is a mix of condotels that are newly built from the ground up and those that were originally hotels and have been upgraded and converted into condotels. Because land in prime locations is so limited and costly, it is possible that condotels conversions will eventually outpace new construction of condotels.
     
  10. Does it cost extra to purchase a condotel using a real estate broker?
    No. The price is the same whether you use a Realtor or go direct to the property. The seller (developer) pays all Realtor costs in the form of a comission. In those cases which no Realtor is involved, the developer either keeps the additional revenue or pays a percentage of it to the property's in-house sales staff.
     
  11. Where are most condotel buyers coming from?
    Buyers are coming from all over the world. For us Filipinos, we have OCW/OFW as our target market. They like the idea of owning a hazzle-free vacation home in a prime location in the Philippines that can generate revenue when they are nit using it and is likely to appreciate in value over time.
     
  12. Is financing available for purchasing condotel units?
    Financing for condotel units is not difficult to find. Most banks now are familiar with condotels and recognize them as viable real estate investments. Often the condotel developer itself or the real estate broker can recommend reputable lenders.

 

 

Edited by David_LivinginTalisay
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well you know mark if it was ((me)) and I was buying a unit I would inquire to the sales staff and see if there was a commission I could earn if I brought other people ;into the fold but that is just me.. It would be easy to test the waters even before I bought my unit by seeing if I could get others interested and I could possibly even be a realtor of sorts for the project.. but that would be me

 

Ah, but would you be open and honest about that and explain to people that you'd be paid a commission if they signed-up? Or would you keep quiet about that aspect and hope they don't find out? Your reaction should the project turn bad would be kind of important also.

 

 

 

Mark

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David_LivinginTalisay

 

 

First you give control to the management company so even if its empty YOU are not allowed to stay in YOUR unit more then 28 days a year... Also you must pay them to maintain YOUR unit ... its just a nightmare you get 100% of the cost and 50% of the income and have NO control ... Best deal for the developer its called OPM other peoples money Now will this appeal to family's on vacation...??? the only rooms with a chance of breaking even are the larger rooms..

 

robert51 Where did you get this 28 days a year from?

 

Also on what basis do you ascertain pay them to maintain YOUR unit from. I am sure the Hotel Management wont be offering such service for FREE, but as to howthey get their funding seems to differ on the Developer/Hotel Management.

 

Filinvest and whatever Organisation is handling their Hotel Management, make joining the Conotel Program compulsory (it is written into the Title Deed Restrictions). They limit the Owners occupancyto 14 days a year (4 in Peak, 5 in High and 5 in Low Season). The CondoHotel Owner also has to pay Condo Association Fees and Maintenance charges, regardless of how well, or badly, the Hotel Management manage to obtain Rental income to the Rental Pool.

 

On the other hand, FTRDC/CrownRegency seem to adopt 50% for us, 50% Nett for Condo Owner approach. There are no additional expenses so no Fixed charge outgoings/expences/Fees being deducted from whatever income the Rental Pool generates. Just Profit Sharing on the Nett Rental Pool income after the actual Fees and costs have been deducted.

 

here is the Club UltimaMembership dues that Ultima Residence Owners must be aMember (of Club Ultima Membership

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Ah, but would you be open and honest about that and explain to people that you'd be paid a commission if they signed-up? Or would you keep quiet about that aspect and hope they don't find out? Your reaction should the project turn bad would be kind of important also.

 

 

Mark

 

Clearly you are NOT referring to me here, and not sure who that reply of Robert51 was directed at.

 

You have seen and read my 'Disclaimer' it would seem Mark, or are you just IGNORING it?

 

Disclaimer: I do NOT work, represent, or financially profit from any company, product or service referred to herein.

I made the time and effort, to bother posting this Message/Reply and I am giving what I hope is useful, interesting,

information and material, or in response to a Question that was asked, and expect it to be received as such.

 

So to spell it out, as if that Disclaimer was not enough" I am not on any Commissions from mention of any Developer or Condo property, nor any Introduction Fee, or kick back or anything, and not connected with any Developer or Realty Company" - got it?

 

I was considering buying a Condo property, registered under my own name, to become part of my 'estate', and hopefully will produce both some rental income and some profits from Capital appreciation. I do some research on what is available to buy, and that offer a Condotel Program, and look into the restriction of such Program. I am sharing what I found with the Members of this Forum. It seems there are some (Robert51 and Markham?) that don't seem to appreciate this FREE research sharing. They feel compelled almost to have a 'dig' at me, and completely ignore my 'Disclaimer' it seems?

 

Robert51 seemingly thinks the worst of me, and jumps in to such conclusionwithout any 'detective work' what so ever. At least Marham does seem to read and do some cross-checking.

However, as a Forum Moderator, Markham should leave out any personal animosity he seems to have towards me, even though I am a 'Brit' too. He should focus on the Message Content not the Messenger and stick to breaches in Club Rules before banning me from certain topics and Locking Message Threads down, when I point out he is going 'Off Topic'?

 

Had he done some (oreven just read what I had posted on other Threads re Condominiums in Cebu) he should know, that I bought the last remaining 28 sq m Condotel type Unit in RamosTower and there are only 2 x other larger and therefore more expensive Units (that I can not afford without a Home loan to cover the increased costs).

 

In other words Rober51's assertions "see if there was acommission I could earn if I brought other people ;into the fold and easy to test the waters even before Ibought my unit and could possibly even be a realtorof sorts for the project" are groundless and without fact or substance.

Edited by David_LivinginTalisay
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Ah, but would you be open and honest about that and explain to people that you'd be paid a commission if they signed-up? Or would you keep quiet about that aspect and hope they don't find out? Your reaction should the project turn bad would be kind of important also.

 

 

Mark

 

Clearly you are NOT referring to me here, and not sure who that reply of Robert51 was directed at.

 

You have seen and read my 'Disclaimer' it would seem Mark, or are you just IGNORING it?

 

Disclaimer: I do NOT work, represent, or financially profit from any company, product or service referred to herein.

I made the time and effort, to bother posting this Message/Reply and I am giving what I hope is useful, interesting,

information and material, or in response to a Question that was asked, and expect it to be received as such.

 

So to spell it out, as if that Disclaimer was not enough

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