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JamesMusslewhite

PT Boat - "Devil Boats" - style hulls

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Bill H

Pretty difficult to sail it to the Phils starting from Minnesota! - lol!

 

Even starting from west coast USA you would be looking at about 8,000mls (1,600hrs @ 5kts = 66 days, minimum) - a serious voyage!

 

Have you looked into freighting it to maybe HongKong or Guam and sailing from there?

 

I guess that you could get the hull (probably not the mast?) in a 40ft container?

 

Any idea (roughly) what the sea freight cost for a 40ft container would be?

 

Probably cheaper to buy a boat in the Phils, HongKong, Singapore, Thailand or Malaysia?

 

[corrected the rhumb-line distance - still a long way!]

 

:yahoo:  Here we go again!  LOL   Not really, it would be kind of fun to go down the Mississippi to NO then down to the big ditch, through that and head due West, but it is a looooong way.  A faster route would be to truck the boat to Seattle, launch there and do a great circle route down from just below the Bearing sea past Russia and Japan (you would come pretty close to Iwo Jima) and down the the Phils from the north.  A much shorter voyage as well.  Or...failing both of those, she could be shipped as deck cargo on a freighter to any China port (faster than waiting for a ship headed to the PH) and sailed over when there were no Typhoons a lurking.

 

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PhilsFan

Thank you for your advice! I would ask Gunther (or someone who's done it many times before) to bring it here (with or without me) or just put it in a container and ship it to Guam or Hong Kong... But having heard of the recent fatal accident (of a brand new 70ft sailing boat), Hong Kong Subic may even be too far for me... I will go to Puerto Rico to look at it but probably would end up buying a flying toy, the mechanics of which I know a little more... :D

Probably best to hire a delivery crew and then just fly-in to meet them/sail with them during the nicer parts of the voyage...you will gain valuable experience as well as avoiding the more tedious and/or dangerous parts of the voyage. 

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Oz Jon

You truly have some big balls to punch through that! 

That may help (or hinder)!

 

 but what you really need is experience and really knowing your boat!

 

That, and minimising risk-taking.

 

The same characteristics that you need for ocean sailing.

 

Well Bill, it seems that we agree that a mid-sized cat would be ideal for inter-island cruising (and live aboard) in the Phils.

There are some good (not-too-expensive) designs available. My suggestion of a Wharram is one of them.

 

We can agree to disagree on the merits of ocean cruising cats. There are hundreds (thousands?) of them out there these days.

 

"it takes all sorts ....etc"

 

Cheers

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PhilsFan

:yahoo:  Here we go again!  LOL   Not really, it would be kind of fun to go down the Mississippi to NO then down to the big ditch, through that and head due West, but it is a looooong way.  A faster route would be to truck the boat to Seattle, launch there and do a great circle route down from just below the Bearing sea past Russia and Japan (you would come pretty close to Iwo Jima) and down the the Phils from the north.  A much shorter voyage as well.  Or...failing both of those, she could be shipped as deck cargo on a freighter to any China port (faster than waiting for a ship headed to the PH) and sailed over when there were no Typhoons a lurking.

 

Lots of my neighbors here have done the Great Circle Route from St Paul down to the gulf, then back along East coast and Great Lakes...but via Powerboat! I simply do not have the desire to bring my boat to Phils anymore..plans change other priorities now. 

I agree shipping from East coast would be the best option for bringing my boat to Phils if I were to do it. 

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Bill H

You truly have some big balls to punch through that! 

 

Not really, I was sailing my Roberts 65 in those days, a steel cutter rigged twin engine motor sailor.  She was a very fine boat and handle rough seas with grace.  The first time I did it, I was coming in from a 5 day said from the South and tired so I didn't want to wait for the seas to calm.  We just busted through with two of the coastie surf boats shadowing us (hoping they'd get to practice a rescue I suppose) but we disappointed them and went past their home base to have a nice breakfast in Illwaco.  Then the bitch dumped me and took my boat.  Oh was that a sad day!

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PhilsFan

Sorry for your loss....the boat, not the Bit*h.

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Oz Jon

Well losing your boat at sea is pretty rough - but losing it on land? - that's a real *******!

 

Nevertheless Bill, you are still here to tell the tale!

 

That some consolation.

 

Cheers

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PIM

Origami is the Japanese art of folding paper into interesting shapes (often animals and flowers but not limited to those shapes.)  The designs can be quite intricate and quite beautiful.  In Origami boat building the computer lays the 3D hull out on a 2D flat surface. ....

Think you are referring to what is more correctly termed "conical hull development". With a proper conically developed hull form (shape), there is no double curvature (dishing) in the plating. This makes it much easier to build when using plate materials such as steel, aluminium, plywood, etc.

 

The limitations of a fully conically developed hull form are that is must be chined (single or multi) and that there can be no flare. The cost (time) of properly designing a conically developed hull form is 3 to 5 times longer (or more) than normal.

 

Some hull forms have conically designed bottoms and the aft half of the sides. The rest is free-form with double curvature to allow for forward flare in the hull form.

 

Conical hull development is where the hull form is designed around part-cones, part-cylinders and flats, all meeting at common tangents. Many computer programs have tried to achieve conical hull development, some more successful than others, however none can yet match a naval architect's eye that is experienced in this method.

Edited by PIM

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PhilsFan

I think a Hobie Cat with a motor would be a great inter-Island/Day boat. Wish they were a bit larger and dryer though for guests and boat parties.

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miles-high

I think a Hobie Cat with a motor would be a great inter-Island/Day boat.

I’m not an experienced sailor/boater… my experience is limited in sailing on Lake Michigan, BBQ and sail home… But with 7,107 islands in the Philippines, I see great opportunities for me to sail among the islands and relax…

 

My fear is, however, how one can escape from typhoons, TS’s and TD’s. Let’s say we are enjoying sailing around the 100 Islands National Park off Pangasinan. Now Typhoon Koppu formed less than 48 hours ago. The weather chart was clear until then.

 

Now, Koppu is advancing at 15 to 20knots toward you – the only “safe harbor” around there would be Subic Bay (as I am told), about 170nm away and the entire route appears to be affected by Koppu if the forecasted path was correct… I think it would be safe just drive a cat on to the shore but a sailboat? What should I do? It would take more than 24 hours to cover 170nm…

 

2.PNG

T2K

 

1.PNG

Japan JMA

 

Even a “small” Cessna can outrun a typhoon at around 90 knots per hour and there are many “typhoon proof” hangars around the country… Hmmm... :D

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colemanlee

 

 

My fear is, however, how one can escape from typhoons, TS’s and TD’s. Let’s say we are enjoying sailing around the 100 Islands National Park off Pangasinan. Now Typhoon Koppu formed less than 48 hours ago. The weather chart was clear until then.

 

Just trying to think, lived most of my life either on the Gulf coast or around Beaufort NC when I was in the states...cant remember ever not being able to find a river, bay, some kind of harbor on the leeward side of something......when a storm approaches the problem is when it moves away and the winds change, you might have to move

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Bill H

I think a Hobie Cat with a motor would be a great inter-Island/Day boat. Wish they were a bit larger and dryer though for guests and boat parties.

 

LOL you wouldn't be thinking that once she flipped over on you!  LOL

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PhilsFan

Hence the wish for a higher/wider/drier boat! Was thinking you would remove the mast and run a Bimini instead. Just use existing hulls and hardware to Frankenstein one? might need a 3rd hull so trimaran to get the extra width? More of a pontoon-type boat I guess. just a thought, no real idea whether it would work or not. 

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Bill H

Think you are referring to what is more correctly termed "conical hull development". With a proper conically developed hull form (shape), there is no double curvature (dishing) in the plating. This makes it much easier to build when using plate materials such as steel, aluminium, plywood, etc.

 

The limitations of a fully conically developed hull form are that is must be chined (single or multi) and that there can be no flare. The cost (time) of properly designing a conically developed hull form is 3 to 5 times longer (or more) than normal.

 

Some hull forms have conically designed bottoms and the aft half of the sides. The rest is free-form with double curvature to allow for forward flare in the hull form.

 

Conical hull development is where the hull form is designed around part-cones, part-cylinders and flats, all meeting at common tangents. Many computer programs have tried to achieve conical hull development, some more successful than others, however none can yet match a naval architect's eye that is experienced in this method.

 

If it makes you feel better to cal it Conical Hull Development that's cool to me, but I don't know one builder who refers to it by any other way than Origami.  The folks who are building these boats don't see many disadvantages to a hard chine.  It's not so much a performance issue as it is an aesthetic one and for the most part the chines are under the waterline, so they are only seen when the boat is hauled.

 

I'm not a Naval Architect, but the guys I know who are and who are involved in these boats claim the process to layout the 3D form to 2D is done very easily in AutoCAD and is not a problem.  Like much of Naval Architecture there is a strong "art" component so the boat is sweet, but structurally, these boats are very strong, very sea worthy and perform well.  They are also much faster to build (at least with respect to the hull).  There is at least one Yahoo group on Origami boat building that is headed up by Brent Swain probably one of the most knowledgeable people around in this area.  There are also some U-Tube channels devoted to this method of building.

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Bill H

I am looking at this Cheoy Lee 43 Motorsailer... 2 controls, one inside and the other out, single engine but with a 500gal + fuel tank, air conditioned with a gen set...

 

attachicon.gifmain2.jpg

 

But I guess not... :D

 

Since you mentioned "air conditioning" I thought I'd add my 2p worth on the subject.  A person can live quite comfortably without air conditioning on a boat if you just do a few simple things.  Rig tarps to shade the deck, rig air scoops on the hatches to bring a good flow of air down below and make use of fans in all living areas and berths.  I've been living aboard boats since the 70's including a 3 year stretch in Houston.  It does not get much hotter and muggier than Houston, Texas.  I never bothered with AC and never felt the need.  Ont he hottest, muggiest nights, I would move the boat into Galveston Bay far enough from shore to be rid of the pesky mosquitoes and more often than not needed a light blanket for the evening chill.  That said, I have several friends who swear by their AC.  I've seen people use window style units jury rigged to fit the companionway to very sophisticated water cooled units.  If burning fuel is not a problem, rigging up an acceptable AC unit is not all that difficult a task.

 

In the PNW our problem is not AC it's heat, on my 65 I used a diesel powered radiant heating system that did not burn much diesel yet kept the boat warm enough.  Still, nothing beats a nice pot bellied stove on cold nights at anchor, it's just the ashes are a bit of a PIA.  My system incorporated a demand water heating system that was #1.  It would heat water until the tanks ran dry and nothing beats a hot shower on cold mornings.

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