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JamesMusslewhite

PT Boat - "Devil Boats" - style hulls

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PhilsFan

Yes, I have looked into freighting it. Not a viable option really. Sailing it down the Mississippi to the Gulf and through the Panama canal, then a Pacific crossing could easily take 2 years if you want to avoid bad weather. I looked into freighting it across the Atlantic from New York about 7 years ago and it was well over 5,000. plus you have lots of other issues to deal with too. I was considering marketing it to EU countries as they are very familiar with Moody's there and they bring more $ than in the USA due to that fact.

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Oz Jon

I was considering marketing it to EU countries as they are very familiar with Moody's there and they bring more $ than in the USA due to that fact.

Always the problem with boats - much easier to buy one than to sell one!

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colemanlee

I suppose most of you have seen this...but if you have not its pretty good, just noticed the PT9 seemed that the hull design had kind of a Hatteras flair....which makes sense as it was a British design for rough water...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTuyA84QXKs

Edited by colemanlee
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PhilsFan

Aye to that! Trying to sell my 50 ft Houseboat in Downtown St Paul...every one who looks at it, wants it...but nobody has the cash! Banks don't lend on older steel-hulled boats. Can't move permanently to Phils until its sol

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PhilsFan

"Permission Granted" is a good novel that features a PT boat and crew. I met the author who came down to see the real thing...we had a good visit..he was a nice chap but not real knowledgeable about the boats...he should have come down before he wrote the book!

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Bill H

Never heard of the Origami method.....

 

Origami is the Japanese art of folding paper into interesting shapes (often animals and flowers but not limited to those shapes.)  The designs can be quite intricate and quite beautiful.  In Origami boat building the computer lays the 3D hull out on a 2D flat surface.  Then it is just a matter of welding the plates together, cutting out the darts and pulling the resulting quite large flat metal plate up with come-a-longs.  Because all the welding is done flat, it is fast and the actual pulling up the hull into it's 3D shape goes pretty quickly.  Two weeks seems to be the average for boats up to 50' LOA with a few extra days for larger boats.  The only drawback is you end up with a hard chine, but those are pretty much under the waterline so they are not too noticeable.  I have a friend in Vancouver B.C. who specializes in sailboats of this type.  Once the computer lays out the flat sheet everything else is pretty easy and very fast and virtually all the welding is done flat.  These hulls have very few transverse frames, but longitudinal stiffener bars are added before the hull is pulled into shape.

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colemanlee

Thanks knew the term Origami but not in boat design....Wonder how a PT style boat would go with three MAN or MTU diesels...I even think Detroit has a 12v now thats something like 1100hp....that would be interesting....

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PhilsFan

Here.s another pic of PT 728. I was clowning around on one of the 50's... The Reagan hailed us and I had to get out of the turret...they were a little nervous and all due to War just being announced. Eventually, a retired admiral flew via helicopter over to the Reagan to meet the captain and he told them we were just a tour boat and no threat.

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PhilsFan

Thanks knew the term Origami but not in boat design....Wonder how a PT style boat would go with three MAN or MTU diesels...I even think Detroit has a 12v now thats something like 1100hp....that would be interesting....

 We ran 2 CAT Diesels...the original triple aircraft engines are to difficult to maintain and too thirsty.

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Bill H

Now!, now! Bill, don't raise that old chestnut again!

I presume you are talking about a cruising cat, not an off-beach cat or a racer. They flip frequently - all part of their game!

 

You are quite correct that a cat is more stable upside down than the right way up - that's why experienced sailors avoid tipping them over!

 

I'll give you the classic response: -

Tell you what though - in the unlikely event of a capsize, I'd much prefer to be on an upturned cat than on a holed monohull yacht! - Lol!

 

I've sailed my (or my mate's) cat in 50knot winds and 10m seas without even looking like capsizing - you have to know what you are doing though in those conditions - no room for errors - same goes for a monohull (power or sail) in the same conditions!

 

Anyway, there is no way that a cruising-type cat would overturn in James's application.

ie.cruising the Phills Islands (not much more than day-sailing, island-hopping, in good weather)

- unless he was absolutely stupid about grossly overloading it, over-canvassing it, or sailing in a typhoon.

 

Cheers!

 

:biggrin_01:   You are correct, I'm referring to larger CATS 12m or more LOA.  Unfortunately you are simply not correct about large CATS not turning over and being lost on the open see.  The last time I bothered to look up the Stats the number of lost CATS per year was 4-5.  That said, you are also correct that if the CAT is skippered by an experienced skipper one should not have a problem if they are prudent and don't push the envelope.  Then again, shit happens, even with CATS!  As for the mono-hull being holed when rolled over in heavy seas, it would be a rare occurrence.  About the worse thing that can happen is to loose the mast or at least a portion of it, but a properly rigged boat should not even loose the mast.  Mostly, you just turn rightside up, bail out the water and keep on sailing.

 

If you look closely at most large CATS they have cleverly disguised escape hatches built into the inner sides of the hulls so you can make an easy exit.  Of course, if you open them, the chances of the boat sinking are much greater, but isn't that why God invented life rafts?

 

There is no question CATS are faster, they sail flatter (less heeling) and they have much larger living accommodations between the two hulls.  However, while they have voluminous space, that space can't be used for much because CATS simply cannot handle the weight.  I regularly sail through the bar where the Columbia river enters into the Pacific Ocean.  Some of the roughest waters in the world.  So rough, the Coast Guard has a dedicated small boat handling school there to take advantage of the conditions.  30' swells are common, but it's not just the height of the wave it is the period (distance between waves) and steepness of the wave that can get inexperienced skippers into deep trouble quickly.

 

You don't have to be "stupid" to flip a CAT in heavy seas.  Of course, stupidity always helps in these situations, but the very inherent propensity of these boats to turn turtle is the real enemy, regardless of what the skipper does or does not do.  Fortunately in the Philippines, rough water is not the norm, so I would have no problem sailing a CAT here.  In fact, I believe a CAT to be one of the ideal cruising boats for these waters.  (Yes I just said that!)  You do need to understand the idiosyncrasies of this design, but in the Philippines it would be a good cruising boat.  Crossing the Pacific...not so much, but it can be done.  :cool:

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Bill H

I bow to both Bill H and Oz Jon in your depth of knowledge in sailing craft...back in the day, it was my dream to do the same...but alas work and other things got in the way...did some research back then, and always ended up back at the Valiant 40....still think it would be a great boat....

 

It is a great boat.  Designed by Robert Perry in the late 70's it is a very fine sailing machine.  The only reason I never owned one is they are Glass boats and I don't do glass boats, but Bob Perry is an outstanding designer and the Valiant 40 was probably the best production boat he ever designed.

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PhilsFan

I suppose most of you have seen this...but if you have not its pretty good, just noticed the PT9 seemed that the hull design had kind of a Hatteras flair....which makes sense as it was a British design for rough water...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTuyA84QXKs

And like the Brit's build the 60's sports cars...the (4) US manufacturers building PT boats made changes to the boats in production. very few of them were identical. PT 728 never saw action...she was in the process of being built for the Russians as part of Lend-Lease. The Keel was laid then the Japanese surrendered...permission was given to finish 728. I dont know who 1st bought her.

It is a great boat.  Designed by Robert Perry in the late 70's it is a very fine sailing machine.  The only reason I never owned one is they are Glass boats and I don't do glass boats, but Bob Perry is an outstanding designer and the Valiant 40 was probably the best production boat he ever designed.

This! 

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PhilsFan

:biggrin_01:   You are correct, I'm referring to larger CATS 12m or more LOA.  Unfortunately you are simply not correct about large CATS not turning over and being lost on the open see.  The last time I bothered to look up the Stats the number of lost CATS per year was 4-5.  That said, you are also correct that if the CAT is skippered by an experienced skipper one should not have a problem if they are prudent and don't push the envelope.  Then again, shit happens, even with CATS!  As for the mono-hull being holed when rolled over in heavy seas, it would be a rare occurrence.  About the worse thing that can happen is to loose the mast or at least a portion of it, but a properly rigged boat should not even loose the mast.  Mostly, you just turn rightside up, bail out the water and keep on sailing.

 

If you look closely at most large CATS they have cleverly disguised escape hatches built into the inner sides of the hulls so you can make an easy exit.  Of course, if you open them, the chances of the boat sinking are much greater, but isn't that why God invented life rafts?

 

There is no question CATS are faster, they sail flatter (less heeling) and they have much larger living accommodations between the two hulls.  However, while they have voluminous space, that space can't be used for much because CATS simply cannot handle the weight.  I regularly sail through the bar where the Columbia river enters into the Pacific Ocean.  Some of the roughest waters in the world.  So rough, the Coast Guard has a dedicated small boat handling school there to take advantage of the conditions.  30' swells are common, but it's not just the height of the wave it is the period (distance between waves) and steepness of the wave that can get inexperienced skippers into deep trouble quickly.

 

You don't have to be "stupid" to flip a CAT in heavy seas.  Of course, stupidity always helps in these situations, but the very inherent propensity of these boats to turn turtle is the real enemy, regardless of what the skipper does or does not do.  Fortunately in the Philippines, rough water is not the norm, so I would have no problem sailing a CAT here.  In fact, I believe a CAT to be one of the ideal cruising boats for these waters.  (Yes I just said that!)  You do need to understand the idiosyncrasies of this design, but in the Philippines it would be a good cruising boat.  Crossing the Pacific...not so much, but it can be done.  :cool:

You truly have some big balls to punch through that! 

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PhilsFan

Freakin' Cats are SO expensive. But I would love to own one... Perfect for the Philippines.

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Bill H

I am looking at this Cheoy Lee 43 Motorsailer... 2 controls, one inside and the other out, single engine but with a 500gal + fuel tank, air conditioned with a gen set...

 

attachicon.gifmain2.jpg

 

But I guess not... :D

 

Cheoy Lee set the standard for the Taiwan pleasure boat building industry.  They once had a stellar reputation.  They were also one of the first builders to utilize balsa core decks and that was their down fall.  One property of fiberglass that was not understood for years is that is leaks (small quantities to be sure, but it is NOT a water impermeable material).  Initially the balsa wood was untreated, so over time small amounts of water worked there way through the hull and decks into the balsa wood which soaked it up and then did what all wood does when exposed to water...it began to rot.  What a nightmare that turned out to be.  First the industry switched to foam, but not all builders were willing to pay for the more expensive high density closed cell foam and they used the much cheaper open cell foam, which is in effect a sponge.  More nightmares.  If it is used at all, balsa wood is sealed with epoxy before being laid into the deck now, but mostly its no longer used in favor of high density closed cell polyurethane foam.

 

I like motor sailors if they are set up correctly.  If you decide to go that route invest in a good feathering 3 bladed prop which will save you 20% drag or more depending on the prop.  Most of the better ones pretty much eliminate prop walk as well.  Variprop and Maxiprop both seem to be good products.  Autoprop seems to have some real problems, so investigate them before you go that route.

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