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Citizenship Retention and Reacquisition Act of 2003 (RA 9225)

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NOSOCALPINOY

We just made an appoitment for my wife to get duel citizenship next month, supposed to cost about $50. We live in Oregon but they have satellite consulates that come not too far from us. 

Good luck and best wishes to your wife in getting her dual citizenship. It should be a no hassle process. It could take 1 hour or all afternoon just depends on how efficient they are. 

When my wife did hers at the San Francisco Philippine Consulate back in 2008, we were out of there within one an hour. 

BTW, after her oath taking, make sure that there aren't any errors on her Identification Certificate aka an "IC" letter and it's an original copy and with a raised seal on the 2nd page. With my wife's "IC" letter after getting home, I discovered it was not an original copy and had errors like wrong gender, misspelled first name and without a raised seal. The original is of heavy light brown paper requiring left and right hand thumb prints. After I sent them an email, the Consulate mailed us a replacement, which was an original "IC" letter this time, at our U.S. address where we were staying (just needed her thumb prints) and It had all the correct information on it.   

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Edited by NOSOCALPINOY
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jassy

He has a BC, right?  That proves where he was born.  

 

Lots of people have.  People who naturalized in countries that allow Dual Citz.  Japan isn't included on that list.  If your husband wants to be recognized as fully Filipino he needs to go take the RA 9225 oath at which time he'll get an IC and risk losing his Jap citz.Is that really what he wants?  As a former Filipino he's allowed BB privileges to enter the country and he can purchase some land in his own name.  If you're a Filipina you can purchae land in your name so what is the problem?

 

 

There's no problem  We want to get rid of the Icard. Its an extra expense everytime we go out of the country. And we go out a lot.

And having to report annually for the Icard is just a hassle.

 

Went BI cebu. They don't process recognition here.

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NOSOCALPINOY

There's no problem  We want to get rid of the Icard. Its an extra expense everytime we go out of the country. And we go out a lot.

And having to report annually for the Icard is just a hassle.

Went BI cebu. They don't process recognition here.

Even if he can get a Recognition of being a Filipino citizen, he runs the risk of losing his Japanese citizenship, because according to the Japan Nationality Law, it states that a Japanese citizen can only have one citizenship! 

Why would he want that to happen? It will happen if he insists in his effort to be recognized as a Filipino citizen, but isn't he already since he was born here and it's in his Japanese passport? He will then be obligated to renounce his Filipino citizenship or jeopardize his Japanese citizenship if he doesn't abide by the Japan Nationality Law!

If he is a Balikbayan with a Filipino spouse as his sponsor, ACR I-Cards are not required, but if he decides to become a permanent resident, he is required to have an ACR I-Card or a PRA I.D. for those who have the SRRVisa and still will be restricted to purchase real estate in his name only other than a condominium!  

We've already strayed off from the main topic. You can make a different topic to further continue this discussion since RA9225 does not apply in his situation.

Edited by NOSOCALPINOY

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NOSOCALPINOY

The only last resort option he has is to renounce his Japanese citizenship according to the Japan Nationality Law and just renew his old Philippine passport, which will be his only passport and only citizenship! He will just then be a Filipino tourist in Japan with a limited stay. http://www.rappler.com/nation/32282-japan-relaxes-visa-rules-filipinos-asean-citizens

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jassy

 

 

but isn't he already since he was born here and it's in his Japanese passport?

 

 

He was born here but there's nothing in his japanese passport that says place of birth.

The process for re-acquisition and recognition is similar. The process doesn't interfere with a persons status outside the philippines. That's why they don't require a natural born to renounce his other nationality. Basically its just giving the person the same rights as a filipino, nothing more nothing less.

You surrender your icard and given a piece of paper.

I think your wife has this right? What does she tell the airport in the US when she comes to the philippines? Does she show the paper? She's not questioned whether she has a visa, icard, etc? Because if she's an american citizen she should have something to show that she can stay in the philippines, right?

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SkyMan

If POB is not in his pp then the next time he enters the country he should have an NSO copy of his BC or an old RP pp with him and he should ask for Balikbayan status.  He won't need an ACR-I card, won't pay travel tax when leaving the country, and won't need to set foot in the BI.

 

 

 

The process doesn't interfere with a persons status outside the philippines.

Until Japan finds out and then it's sayonara sucker. 

 

 

 

Basically its just giving the person the same rights as a filipino, nothing more nothing less.

You mean like it makes him a Filipino citizen?  Yeah, it does, Filipino only, and soon to be a former Japanese citizen.  Which one does he want.  Japan says, "He can be only one."

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Headshot

Jazzy, if you want to do your husband a favor, advise that he should forget all about attaining Philippine citizenship. Japan is not the US. Japan does NOT recognize dual citizenship. If he acquires Philippine citizenship, he will lose his Japanese citizenship...no do-overs. There is no way to reattain his Japanese citizenship because he has willingly relinquished it. Maybe he wants to buy property in the Philippines in his own name and sees this as a way to do it, but believe me, it will be way more costly to him than he could ever imagine. He would be much further ahead to just rent here in the Philippines or put property in your name than to give up his Japanese passport in exchange for a Philippine passport. The problem has nothing to do with the Philippines and everything to do with Japan. He simply has to choose which citizenship he values most and stick with it.

Edited by Headshot

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jassy

Thanks guys. I appreciate the advise.

Just to note. We talked to a chinese friend. He said there are a LOT of of Fil-chis who have an Identity certificate but are still chinese nationals in the philippines.

China also doesn't allow multiple citizenship. But according to those who have ICs, its outside the chinese law whatever rights are given to them by the foreign country, in this case the Philippines, as long as they don't exercise whatever rights given to them outside of the Philippines. It only applies to the Philippines.

Anyway to make sure we will ask an immigration attorney what RA 9225 implies.

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NOSOCALPINOY
You must have been misinformed, but under Chinese law, I do not see anywhere in their law allowing them to have any rights living in the Philippines, unless they are Filipino citizens and who have renounced their Chinese citizenship. 

An Identification certificate (IC) and or Recognition Certificate identifies that individual as being or have become a Filipino citizen, so therefore under Chinese law, he/she will lose their Chinese citizenship automatically according to China's Nationality Law under Article 9.

RA9225 only pertains to former Filipino citizens who have been naturalized as a citizen of that foreign country, where dual citizenship is allowed. 

As you already know Japan and China does not allow dual citizenship! 

 


 

Nationality Law of the People's Republic of China

 

Article 3

The People's Republic of China does not recognize dual nationality for Any Chinese national.

 

Article 5

Any person born abroad whose parents are both Chinese nationals and one of whose parents is a Chinese national shall have Chinese nationality. But a person whose parents are both Chinese nationals and have both settled abroad, or one of whose parents is a Chinese national and has settled abroad, and who has acquired foreign nationality at birth shall not have Chinese nationality.

 

Article 8

Any person who applies for naturalization as a Chinese national shall acquire Chinese nationality upon approval of his application; a person whose application for naturalization as a Chinese national has been approved shall not retain foreign nationality.

 

Article 9

Any Chinese national who has settled abroad and who has been naturalized as a foreign national or has acquired foreign nationality of his own free will shall automatically lose Chinese nationality.

 

Article 13

Foreign nationals who once held Chinese nationality may apply for restoration of Chinese nationality if they have legitimate reasons; those whose applications for restoration of Chinese nationality have been approved shall not retain foreign nationality.

 

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RogerDuMond

Thanks guys. I appreciate the advise.

Just to note. We talked to a chinese friend. He said there are a LOT of of Fil-chis who have an Identity certificate but are still chinese nationals in the philippines.

China also doesn't allow multiple citizenship. But according to those who have ICs, its outside the chinese law whatever rights are given to them by the foreign country, in this case the Philippines, as long as they don't exercise whatever rights given to them outside of the Philippines. It only applies to the Philippines.

Anyway to make sure we will ask an immigration attorney what RA 9225 implies.

 

 

I am not going to pretend that I am qualified to give you advice like our three immigration "experts" are doing here, but I believe that you are correct. It seems logical that if the IC is only used  in country if needed for something like land ownership, there should be no problem. That being said, my advice to you is take the information that you have and consult an immigration attorney in Japan instead of basing any action on hearsay that you acquire here.

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That Masked Man

Until Japan finds out and then it's sayonara sucker. 

 

And how would that happen if he never gets a Philippines passport? Where would Japan get the information from? Not that I am suggesting hiding things from the government, but how would they know?

 

 

Nationality Law of the People's Republic of China
 
Article 3
The People's Republic of China does not recognize dual nationality for Any Chinese national.
 
Article 5
Any person born abroad whose parents are both Chinese nationals and one of whose parents is a Chinese national shall have Chinese nationality. But a person whose parents are both Chinese nationals and have both settled abroad, or one of whose parents is a Chinese national and has settled abroad, and who has acquired foreign nationality at birth shall not have Chinese nationality.
 
Article 8
Any person who applies for naturalization as a Chinese national shall acquire Chinese nationality upon approval of his application; a person whose application for naturalization as a Chinese national has been approved shall not retain foreign nationality.
 
Article 9
Any Chinese national who has settled abroad and who has been naturalized as a foreign national or has acquired foreign nationality of his own free will shall automatically lose Chinese nationality.
 
Article 13
Foreign nationals who once held Chinese nationality may apply for restoration of Chinese nationality if they have legitimate reasons; those whose applications for restoration of Chinese nationality have been approved shall not retain foreign nationality.

 

 

That could get really odd interacting with foreign nationality laws. A Chinese person born in the USA to Chinese partents, who have not yet "settled" abroad would be both a Chinese and a US citizen at birth, even if the family returned to China immediately after the birth. China would not recognize this second citizenship but could do nothing about it as a minor cannot renounce US citizenship. It would get even weirder with a country like Mexico where it is not possible to lose nationality if one is born with it. Not that any of this applies to any of the people we have discussed so far.

 

That being said, my advice to you is take the information that you have and consult an immigration attorney in Japan instead of basing any action on hearsay that you acquire here.

 

I'll second that. Check with an immigration attorney in Japan before making any decisions that could jeopardize your citizenship.

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NOSOCALPINOY

I am not going to pretend that I am qualified to give you advice like our three immigration "experts" are doing here, but I believe that you are correct. It seems logical that if the IC is only used  in country if needed for something like land ownership, there should be no problem. That being said, my advice to you is take the information that you have and consult an immigration attorney in Japan instead of basing any action on hearsay that you acquire here.

I'm far from being an expert, my knowledge is just from personal experience over the years dealing in these matters and also from the advise of a few BI immigration attorneys I personally had face to face consultations with over the years and whatever facts I find on the immigration websites that are not too complicated to comprehend.

Jassy has repeatedly mentioned the identification certificate and the recognition certificate. The main purpose of those two certificates is for identifying an individual who have applied for dual citizenship either by under RA9225 or the Recognition process that he/she is a Filipino citizen and that he/she has proven to be a Filipino citizen by way of legal documents submitted to immigration.

The only drawback to that is if the foreign country does not allow dual citizenship, which in effect these two certificates would be irrelevant for the purpose which they were intended for, because if he/she insists on being a Filipino citizen, he/she will lose their foreign citizenship automatically by which rendering the two certificate useless and unobtainable since they are no longer Filipino citizens just due to the fact that their foreign country does not allow for becoming a dual citizen at any circumstances and besides, they will have to renounce their Philippine citizenship. It's just a case in having to choose only one citizenship, one country!    

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RogerDuMond

 

 

It's just a case in having to choose only one citizenship, one country!

 

Please explain how Japan would ever know?

 

Also your experience with BI personnel has nothing to do with this particular case and my advice to her still stands. She needs to contact a lawyer in Japan to give her advice and not take it from any of us.

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NOSOCALPINOY

Please explain how Japan would ever know?

Also your experience with BI personnel has nothing to do with this particular case and my advice to her still stands. She needs to contact a lawyer in Japan to give her advice and not take it from any of us.

It's all about the integrity and honesty of the individual to notify their government according to the Nationality Law of their country of citizenship! It says in the Japan Nationality law http://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/information/tnl-01.html

under Notification of Article 18, 19 and 20. Not to abide by these laws would be trying to hide the facts and one can be liable of fraud of false notification or no notification when it's mandatory. JMHO

(Notification, etc., by legal representative) Article 18.

In the case where the person who intends to acquire, choose or renounce nationality is under fifteen years of age, notification of the acquisition of nationality under Article 3, paragraph 1 or Article 17, paragraph 1, the application for naturalization permission, the declaration of choice or the notification of renunciation of nationality shall be made by the person's legal representative on his or her behalf.

(Ministerial ordinance) Article 19.

Except as provided for in this Law, the procedures concerning the acquisition or renunciation of nationality as well as other rules necessary to enforce this Law shall be prescribed in the Ordinance of the Ministry of Justice.

(Penal provisions) Article 20.

Any person who has made a false notification when filing a notification pursuant to the provision of Article 3, paragraph 1 shall be punished by imprisonment with work for not more than one year or a fine of not more than 200,000 yen.

2. The crime set forth in the preceding paragraph shall be governed by the provision of Article 2 of the Penal Code (Act No. 45 of 1907).

 

Our personal experiences does too pertain to the issues being discussed here! She asked for opinions and suggestions so we gave it to her to consider to the best of our combined knowledge! Sure, her last resort is to consult with an attorney in Japan, if she is not confident with the Philippine BI attorneys at the district level in Cebu, Davao or Manila and not just at any local BI filed office. 

Edited by NOSOCALPINOY

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RogerDuMond

 

 

Sure, her last resort is to consult with an attorney in Japan,

 

No it should be her first action not a last resort because it concerns Japanese law not Filipino law.

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