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Jess Bartone

Thanks Markham, I picked this up in "Today's active content", and I am fascinated, after labouring through some lengthy posts.

 

The naysayers, I thought, were looking at the project purely as a marketing exercise, and in my opinion, that is an insignificant aspect compared to the vision of the project. The "investors" all seem to agree that profit is secondary, and it's not exactly Wall Street-style high finance. Sooner or later it will sell, and could indeed make Nick famous some day. It may be a behemouth, but once it's rolling, there'll be no stopping it, and I for one would be very interested to buy a hard copy.

 

As for the bi-lingual classics, all it takes is some word of mouth for that sort of thing to go off like a rocket (P50 is not that much really, a niece of ours came home from carolling for a few hours with more than that). Just look at Harry Potter, we all know the movies are huge, but the vast majority of the fans have read the book long before that installment comes out in the cinemas.

 

As an English speaker keen to learn Visayan, it would be a fantastic learning tool to read a book I already know in the language I want to learn. When I read a book, I tend to visualise it like a movie (one reason why I am so often disappointed by movie adaptations of books). Armed with my "movie", the story will unfold in the new language, complete with correct grammar.

 

So how is it going Nick?

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Thirteen months have elapsed since Nick started this thread inviting members to invest in his Cebuano e-books project and he's had use of his investors' money for approaching one year. The money advan

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As of currently, I have managed to complete half of it. Unfortunately I have been stuck at that half way point for several months now. The point in bringing on investors was to hear other's opinions regarding the structure and layout of the book. The first update occurred only 2 weeks after the investors got involved and the response was good. After that, slowly and steadily those who I was relying on to help give me insight on the final outcome stopped responding to updates, so I have been stuck at the half-way point for several months; the last update I gave in which I had no responses from (two updates in a row).

 

None the less, irregardless of whether the book has been completed or not, I am a man of my word and repayment of the investments plus the interest is just about due so I am working on making sure I have all of the funds to cover the return at the moment. As far as my records go, repayment should be in or around the middle of February so I have my hands full; paying off Christmas and Economic recession debts as well as saving up the interest for the investor's investments which works out to be P8,000.

 

The biggest issues I have so far with what I have compiled, is the fact that I have those who know a significant amount about the language telling me one thing, and having the average Filipino tell me something completely different. For example, there are words and inflictions used which are part of Cebuano according to the keepers of the Cebuano Language; Akademika Bisaya. Those same words and inflictions are then contradicted by the averae Cebuano speaker who insists that they are not part of Cebuano, or that they are part of Filipino; simply because Cebuano has not been taught in schools for more then a half a century, and the average Cebuano speaker has absorbed so much Filipino from watching Wowowee and Korean Soaps that they don't even know what is and what is not traditionally part of their language.

 

I consistently asked whether I should include these inflictions and words, as well as whether or not the structure and composition of the book was too academic or not; without any responses. Maybe in a few months once I have more time, I can sit down again and finish the book, but as for right now it sits half completed.

 

-Nick

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You also have been moving into your new house with its problems so I know that took you out of the project while you dealt with making sure you had a decent place to live.

 

Its really hard for me to know how to advise you Nick as I am learning slowly and I am still a beginner. I would think you have to decide if you want to include past usages I know languages change over time and past uses of words tend to be irrelevant to current usages so they become historical curiousities.

 

I am wanting a working language reflecting current use as my interest is in everyday communication not necessarily at a deeper or academic level or even a nostalgic level. I think you are wanting to preserve the historical culture of Cebuano but who is the target audience of your work? Foreigners looking for a work book on Cebuano so they can communicate or the Cebuanos themselves?

 

I am also wanting a reliable dictionary as Angie corrects some words and usage that I have taken from Tom Markings PDF and also some of the other PDF"s put out by foreigners.

 

You seem to be caught between producing an authentic language guide or a working language guide I would opt for the working language as most of us who would use the books just want to converse with the locals and we would adapt to current usage even if its derived from Tagalog. When in Rome....

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  • 4 months later...

Any update on this project Nick? I am in Cebu now.

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Markham

As of currently, I have managed to complete half of it. Unfortunately I have been stuck at that half way point for several months now. The point in bringing on investors was to hear other's opinions regarding the structure and layout of the book. The first update occurred only 2 weeks after the investors got involved and the response was good. After that, slowly and steadily those who I was relying on to help give me insight on the final outcome stopped responding to updates, so I have been stuck at the half-way point for several months; the last update I gave in which I had no responses from (two updates in a row).

 

None the less, irregardless of whether the book has been completed or not, I am a man of my word and repayment of the investments plus the interest is just about due so I am working on making sure I have all of the funds to cover the return at the moment. As far as my records go, repayment should be in or around the middle of February so I have my hands full; paying off Christmas and Economic recession debts as well as saving up the interest for the investor's investments which works out to be P8,000.

 

The biggest issues I have so far with what I have compiled, is the fact that I have those who know a significant amount about the language telling me one thing, and having the average Filipino tell me something completely different. For example, there are words and inflictions used which are part of Cebuano according to the keepers of the Cebuano Language; Akademika Bisaya. Those same words and inflictions are then contradicted by the averae Cebuano speaker who insists that they are not part of Cebuano, or that they are part of Filipino; simply because Cebuano has not been taught in schools for more then a half a century, and the average Cebuano speaker has absorbed so much Filipino from watching Wowowee and Korean Soaps that they don't even know what is and what is not traditionally part of their language.

 

I consistently asked whether I should include these inflictions and words, as well as whether or not the structure and composition of the book was too academic or not; without any responses. Maybe in a few months once I have more time, I can sit down again and finish the book, but as for right now it sits half completed.

 

-Nick

 

Nick,

 

You wrote the above post in January since when there has been no mention of it. Speaking as one of your investors, I'd really like to know whether you have - or are about to - complete(d) this project? You also stated that you intend to repay your investors in February which, as far as I am concerned, didn't happen.

 

Nick, on 20th July 2009, you posted a lengthy message detailing your Cebuano books project and stated you were seeking to raise between PHP40,000 and PHP50,000:

Basically what I am looking for is between P40,000 and P50,000 in investments to help get these finished before the new year.

 

I will give up 20% of the profits from every online sale to be divided amongst the investors until the initial investments plus interest are paid in full. Furthermore, every investor will get a free copy of the set of books on top of repayment plus interest as soon as the book is finished. Meaning that the investors will get the very first copies available.

 

Turn around time for the completion of the project assuming I can get the necessary financing will be on or before January 1st of 2010. The repayment will be by the time that the 100th copy is sold online. At 20% of the profits we are talking about P500 of every copy sold will go to the repayment of investors. I cannot see any reason why full repayment plus interest will not be within the next 6 months. I would like to see 4-5 investors of P10,000 each.

If you recall, you told me that you had found your five investors (which included me) when we met in Badgers in August and I handed you PHP10,000 as my investment. In handing you my contribution, I assumed you would press ahead with the project and complete it on time. I was disappointed to read your 29th January post, but noted that you appeared prepared to fulfil your obligations to your investors by repaying them in full the following month. That you did not is one thing, that you failed to contact us and explain your reasons - and still have not contacted us at all over the last four months is, to my mind, inexcusable.

I, and I guess your other four investors, have been very patient with you and I have put off writing this in the hopes that you would do the Right Thing but sadly you haven't. As investments go, it wasn't a large sum compared to Legacy or V8 but that is irrelevant. You successfully canvassed on this Forum for investors who are members of this Forum and who trusted you. You now owe this Forum an explanation and your investors a total of PHP60,000.

 

 

 

 

Mark

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smokey

As of currently, I have managed to complete half of it. Unfortunately I have been stuck at that half way point for several months now. The point in bringing on investors was to hear other's opinions regarding the structure and layout of the book. The first update occurred only 2 weeks after the investors got involved and the response was good. After that, slowly and steadily those who I was relying on to help give me insight on the final outcome stopped responding to updates, so I have been stuck at the half-way point for several months; the last update I gave in which I had no responses from (two updates in a row).

 

None the less, irregardless of whether the book has been completed or not, I am a man of my word and repayment of the investments plus the interest is just about due so I am working on making sure I have all of the funds to cover the return at the moment. As far as my records go, repayment should be in or around the middle of February so I have my hands full; paying off Christmas and Economic recession debts as well as saving up the interest for the investor's investments which works out to be P8,000.

 

The biggest issues I have so far with what I have compiled, is the fact that I have those who know a significant amount about the language telling me one thing, and having the average Filipino tell me something completely different. For example, there are words and inflictions used which are part of Cebuano according to the keepers of the Cebuano Language; Akademika Bisaya. Those same words and inflictions are then contradicted by the averae Cebuano speaker who insists that they are not part of Cebuano, or that they are part of Filipino; simply because Cebuano has not been taught in schools for more then a half a century, and the average Cebuano speaker has absorbed so much Filipino from watching Wowowee and Korean Soaps that they don't even know what is and what is not traditionally part of their language.

 

I consistently asked whether I should include these inflictions and words, as well as whether or not the structure and composition of the book was too academic or not; without any responses. Maybe in a few months once I have more time, I can sit down again and finish the book, but as for right now it sits half completed.

 

-Nick

 

Nick,

 

You wrote the above post in January since when there has been no mention of it. Speaking as one of your investors, I'd really like to know whether you have - or are about to - complete(d) this project? You also stated that you intend to repay your investors in February which, as far as I am concerned, didn't happen.

 

Nick, on 20th July 2009, you posted a lengthy message detailing your Cebuano books project and stated you were seeking to raise between PHP40,000 and PHP50,000:

Basically what I am looking for is between P40,000 and P50,000 in investments to help get these finished before the new year.

 

I will give up 20% of the profits from every online sale to be divided amongst the investors until the initial investments plus interest are paid in full. Furthermore, every investor will get a free copy of the set of books on top of repayment plus interest as soon as the book is finished. Meaning that the investors will get the very first copies available.

 

Turn around time for the completion of the project assuming I can get the necessary financing will be on or before January 1st of 2010. The repayment will be by the time that the 100th copy is sold online. At 20% of the profits we are talking about P500 of every copy sold will go to the repayment of investors. I cannot see any reason why full repayment plus interest will not be within the next 6 months. I would like to see 4-5 investors of P10,000 each.

If you recall, you told me that you had found your five investors (which included me) when we met in Badgers in August and I handed you PHP10,000 as my investment. In handing you my contribution, I assumed you would press ahead with the project and complete it on time. I was disappointed to read your 29th January post, but noted that you appeared prepared to fulfil your obligations to your investors by repaying them in full the following month. That you did not is one thing, that you failed to contact us and explain your reasons - and still have not contacted us at all over the last four months is, to my mind, inexcusable.

I, and I guess your other four investors, have been very patient with you and I have put off writing this in the hopes that you would do the Right Thing but sadly you haven't. As investments go, it wasn't a large sum compared to Legacy or V8 but that is irrelevant. You successfully canvassed on this Forum for investors who are members of this Forum and who trusted you. You now owe this Forum an explanation and your investors a total of PHP60,000.

 

 

 

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

Lesson well learned huh!!!!!!!!! when all the guys were pitching a fit about loosing millions of peso all we heard from staff was .. never invest more money then you can afford to loose..

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Alan S

I would prefer to limit comments on this until Nick has had a chance to respond, either here or via PM to those directly affected.

 

Accordingly, I will delete any further comments except those that are from the investors themslves or from Nick.

 

That is purely to prevent the thread becoming needlessly long, with comments that arent helpful to this specific situation.

 

 

(NB, that may be reviewed after discussion between the admins.)

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Markham

Lesson well learned huh!!!!!!!!! when all the guys were pitching a fit about loosing millions of peso all we heard from staff was .. never invest more money then you can afford to loose..

 

Robert, there's a big difference between the Legacy/V8 investments and the investment in Nick's eBooks other than the amount of Pesos involved. As far as I know, no member actively canvassed for members to invest in Legacy/V8 on this Forum whereas Nick did precisely that. There's another difference: Nick's need for a cash injection was short-term - four months - to enable him to employ and equip someone to help him complete this project; I viewed it as more of a loan than an investment.

 

 

 

Mark

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Markham

I would prefer to limit comments on this until Nick has had a chance to respond, either here or via PM to those directly affected.

 

I fear we may not hear from Nick. He last accessed LinC on 22nd March which is about the time he advertised the sale of a computer system and other computer equipment in the Classified Ads section.

 

 

 

Mark

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Paul

I just deleted three irrelevant posts.

 

Unless you are directly involved with this, please refrain from posting in this thread.

 

Alan has already made that same statement.

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JamesMusslewhite

As of currently, I have managed to complete half of it. Unfortunately I have been stuck at that half way point for several months now. The point in bringing on investors was to hear other's opinions regarding the structure and layout of the book. The first update occurred only 2 weeks after the investors got involved and the response was good. After that, slowly and steadily those who I was relying on to help give me insight on the final outcome stopped responding to updates, so I have been stuck at the half-way point for several months; the last update I gave in which I had no responses from (two updates in a row).

 

None the less, irregardless of whether the book has been completed or not, I am a man of my word and repayment of the investments plus the interest is just about due so I am working on making sure I have all of the funds to cover the return at the moment. As far as my records go, repayment should be in or around the middle of February so I have my hands full; paying off Christmas and Economic recession debts as well as saving up the interest for the investor's investments which works out to be P8,000.

 

The biggest issues I have so far with what I have compiled, is the fact that I have those who know a significant amount about the language telling me one thing, and having the average Filipino tell me something completely different. For example, there are words and inflictions used which are part of Cebuano according to the keepers of the Cebuano Language; Akademika Bisaya. Those same words and inflictions are then contradicted by the averae Cebuano speaker who insists that they are not part of Cebuano, or that they are part of Filipino; simply because Cebuano has not been taught in schools for more then a half a century, and the average Cebuano speaker has absorbed so much Filipino from watching Wowowee and Korean Soaps that they don't even know what is and what is not traditionally part of their language.

 

I consistently asked whether I should include these inflictions and words, as well as whether or not the structure and composition of the book was too academic or not; without any responses. Maybe in a few months once I have more time, I can sit down again and finish the book, but as for right now it sits half completed.

 

-Nick

 

I think you should keep your first book true to the original root language. The after it's release, compile these other words into a smaller book as a list if revisions, new common language, and slang words.

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booger10

2_little_time,

 

I can't speak for the others, but for me... I pay out a hell of a lot more than that each year, to do what I can to help others here. So, if this benefits even one person in this country, for me... that makes it worthwhile.

 

It's like I said in post #26, above, maybe it will help others to sharpen their language skills. God knows, many Filipinos have contributed to helping me learn Cebuano. Why would I not try to give back to them?

 

Paul, I agree totally, not all investments are made with the intent of becoming "a millionaire". If all this can be done, is workable, then yes it will help anyone that reads there. Today, just now I read this topic. Even if it doesn't break even, it is an admirable project. Perhaps if there is a workeable PDF edition, maybe the government there would be willing to subsidize the publication, especially if translations of great book can be more readeable to everyone there. I am not sure if it would be the education department or the church bishops. I am sure there are more than just here that are interested in projects like this. I will be living in Iligan City area which even has their own dialect of visayan... (smile) Maybe a future project...

 

Many here have made their home there as I plan to make my home there too. Improving home, what else is better?

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  • 2 months later...

Thirteen months have elapsed since Nick started this thread inviting members to invest in his Cebuano e-books project and he's had use of his investors' money for approaching one year. The money advanced to him was a short-term loan to have been repaid, with interest, by the end of last year. He has not repaid his investors; I know, I am one of them.

 

Nick, who use to be an active member and frequent poster on LinC, has not even logged-in at all in the last three months.

 

LinC is full of messages urging its members not to loan to their wives' or girlfriends' family members as these loans are regarded by the recipients as gifts and will never be repaid. I think that advice should be changed to "Never lend money to, or invest in anyone in the Philippines, Filipino or foreigner, family member, forum member or friend as it will probably never ever be repaid."

 

 

 

 

Mark

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From Shakespeare's Hamlet, 1602:

 

LORD POLONIUS:

Neither a borrower nor a lender be;

For loan oft loses both itself and friend,

And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.

 

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I'm still hopeful Nick will honor his word and complete the project even just a book that would give a working knowledge of Cebuano and a useful dictionary is all I want. It doesn't have to be a classical text book most of us just want to get by in Cebuano not be able to read Shakespeare's plays.

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