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My wife feels the same way every time I try to have sex with her...

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Moderna piles on, reporting roughly 95% effectiveness.  Seems they can do their thing in warmer temps, i think i was seeing above 0 c storage up to 30 days.  Every little bit helps.  

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Ozepete

Has anyone got anything to report about the Russian and Chinese Covid 19 vaccines? There appears to be excellent control of the virus in China specially, so any news?

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no idea what is going on with russia, they are using something called adenovirus delivery of the spike protein to elicit an immune response.  i don't know much about this approach with vaccines, but there were problems when using it for hiv.    the russians seem to be making things up data-wise, but maybe not.  

chinese are being a bit less than forthcoming themselves.  chinese have a couple of vaccines already being administered, prior to the final phase testing readouts (phase 3).  these are traditional inactivated virus particles and there is no reason to think they will be harmful (other than that sometimes these things surprise you and they turn out to be harmful), and it's a bit of a tossup as to efficacy.  inactivated virus is an old (think rabies) approach, sometimes it works, sometimes not.   i am not expecting particularly high response rates, the question is will they be high enough to be useful?  bioNtech and moderna are going to spoil us with their high numbers (assuming those numbers hold).  

upshot is without proper information it's hard to say what is happening with the vaccines.  the chinese results on containment are surely due to mask wearing.  masks, a bit of distancing, and good ventilation can go a long way.  and get some sun.  vitamin d is good for you and bad for covid.  

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liquido

Anyone else buy Moderna last week like I did? Homerun time if you did..not bad for a small company..Yes the government injected 1.5 Billion to fund the research..Been watching CNBC and I saw that by the end of January front liners and then seniors should get the vaccine ...Nice to feel optimistic for a change...

"Exactly who is first in line has yet to be decided. But Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said the hope is that enough doses are available by the end of January to vaccinate adults over 65, who are at the highest risk from the coronavirus, and health care workers. Fauci said it may take until spring or summer before anyone who is not high risk and wants a shot can get one."

https://us.yahoo.com/news/2nd-coronavirus-vaccine-shows-early-120002434.html

 

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On 11/16/2020 at 7:44 AM, rfm010 said:

Seems they can do their thing in warmer temps, i think i was seeing above 0 c storage up to 30 days

 

Cryoport stock down 14%. 

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jaybee747
8 hours ago, liquido said:

Anyone else buy Moderna last week like I did? Homerun time if you did..not bad for a small company..Yes the government injected 1.5 Billion to fund the research..Been watching CNBC and I saw that by the end of January front liners and then seniors should get the vaccine ...Nice to feel optimistic for a change...

The stock market is on fire since the November 3rd election, who knew drug companies will wait to announce their vaccines results after the polls are closed...

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16 hours ago, jaybee747 said:

who knew drug companies will wait to announce their vaccines results after the polls are closed...

 

The drug companies for one.  The people who paid attention when they publicly announced the expected timeline for two.  Very cynical people for three. 

Results for these tests are blinded from the company until particulr milestones are reached.  Results were in actually earlier than expected because of the very recent upsurge in cases, the milestone for these tests being a certain predetermined number of deaths among participants.  

Timing is everything.

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On 11/16/2020 at 1:38 PM, liquido said:

Anyone else buy Moderna last week like I did?

well played.  should anybody consider chasing, do be aware that moderna has a very high market cap already, much of this covid success is priced in already.  no products on the market yet, several up and coming drugs/vaccines but they are early stage still, some even delayed due to covid.  and there is an apparent patent problem with arbutus about which i don't know the details, one might take a gander here::

https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/07/24/tiny-arbutus-biopharma-wins-patent-litigation-figh.aspx

 

interesting that curevac was up better than moderna at about 14%.  european union just contracted for up to 400  million doses of their candidate.  their results are due sometime in the 4th quarter.    curevac is also a bit pricey and their stuff is early but nice to see these rna drugs showing what they can do.

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liquido
1 hour ago, rfm010 said:

well played.  should anybody consider chasing, do be aware that moderna has a very high market cap already, much of this covid success is priced in already.  no products on the market yet, several up and coming drugs/vaccines but they are early stage still, some even delayed due to covid.  and there is an apparent patent problem with arbutus about which i don't know the details, one might take a gander here::

 I was being a day trader last week and thought I would jump in and jump out of Moderna but for some reason I held on to it.I did finally dump it late yesterday..

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jaybee747
3 hours ago, liquido said:

 I was being a day trader last week and thought I would jump in and jump out of Moderna but for some reason I held on to it.I did finally dump it late yesterday..

Great! Moderna is down 6% today, next time tell us your trades in real time so we can all make money...:thumbs_up:

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liquido
1 hour ago, jaybee747 said:

Great! Moderna is down 6% today, next time tell us your trades in real time so we can all make money...:thumbs_up:

Im sure there are other day trader members here that done well with this stock and probably even shorted it ...

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Salty Dog

How about you guys take the trading talk to a more appropriate thread… 

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bioNtech /pfizer pile it higher and deeper, now at 95%efficacy, with 9 of 10 severe cases in placebo group.  Efficacy holding for the over 65 types.  No serious adverse events yet.  Mrna and cvac prices down, bntx up, but you didnt see that here.

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cookie47

Public needs to prep for vaccine side effects

Meredith Wadman

 See all authors and affiliations

Science  27 Nov 2020:
Vol. 370, Issue 6520, pp. 1022
DOI: 10.1126/science.370.6520.1022

Science's COVID-19 reporting is supported by the Pulitzer Center and the Heising-Simons Foundation

This summer, computational biologist Luke Hutchison volunteered for a trial of Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine. But after the second injection, his arm swelled up to the size of a “goose egg,” Hutchison says. He can't be sure he got the vaccine and not a placebo, but within a few hours, Hutchison, who was healthy and 43, was beset by bone and muscle aches and a 38.9°C fever. “I started shaking. I had cold and hot rushes,” he says. “I was sitting by the phone all night long thinking: ‘Should I call 911?’”

Hutchison's symptoms resolved after 12 hours. But, he says, “Nobody prepared me for the severity of this.”

He says the public should be better prepared than he was, because a subset of people may face intense, if transient, side effects, called reactogenicity, from Moderna's vaccine. Some health experts agree

“Somebody needs to address the elephant: What about vaccine reactogenicity? While it's … not going to cause any long-term issues … how is that perception going to go with the public once they start receiving it?” asks Deborah Fuller, a vaccinologist at the University of Washington, Seattle, whose lab is developing second-generation RNA vaccines against COVID-19. She worries the side effects could feed vaccine hesitancy. “I feel like it's being glossed over.”

Those concerns arise after a week of good news about coronavirus vaccines: Both Moderna and Pfizer, with BioNTech, announced their messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines reached 95% efficacy in clinical trials of tens of thousands of people. The firms added that the trials showed no serious safety concerns.

Both vaccines consist of a snippet of genetic code directing production of the coronavirus' spike protein, delivered in a tiny fat bubble called a lipid nanoparticle. Some researchers suspect the immune system's response to that delivery vehicle is causing the short-term side effects.

Those transient reactions should not dissuade people from getting vaccinated in the face of a pandemic virus that kills at least one in 200 of those it infects, says Florian Krammer, a vaccinologist at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, who participated in Pfizer's trial. Sore arms, fevers, and fatigue are “unpleasant but not dangerous,” he says. I'm not concerned about [reactogenicity] at all.”

Most people will escape “severe” side effects, defined as those that prevent daily activity. Fewer than 2% of recipients of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines developed severe fevers of 39°C to 40°C. But if the companies win regulatory approvals, they're aiming to supply vaccine to 35 million people worldwide by the end of December. If 2% experienced severe fever, that would be 700,000 people.

Other transient side effects would likely affect even more people. The independent board that conducted the interim analysis of Moderna's huge trial found that severe side effects included fatigue in 9.7% of participants, muscle pain in 8.9%, joint pain in 5.2%, and headache in 4.5%. In the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine trial, the numbers were lower: Severe side effects included fatigue (3.8%) and headache (2%).

But that's a higher rate of severe reactions than people may be accustomed to. “This is higher reactogenicity than is ordinarily seen with most flu vaccines, even the high-dose ones,” says Arnold Monto, an epidemiologist at the University of Michigan School of Public Health.

So front-line public health workers will need “to have a story that gets out in front of [stories like Hutchison's]—that responds to the way that people are going to try to make that a story about vaccine injury,” says Bernice Hausman, an expert on vaccine controversy at the Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine.

Transparency is key, Hausman emphasizes. Rather than minimizing the chance of fever, for instance, vaccine administrators could alert people that they may experience a fever that can feel severe but is temporary. “That would go a significant way toward people feeling like they are being told the truth.” Adds Drew Weissman, an immunologist at the University of Pennsylvania whose research contributed to both vaccines: “The companies just have to warn people: ‘This is what you need to expect. Take Tylenol and suck it up for a day.’”

Hausman also sees a need to support people who have serious reactions. For example, people may need “a hotline with a nurse triaging … figuring out if you need to go to the hospital or not. Will your medical expenses be covered if you do? These are important questions.”

Both Moderna's and Pfizer/BioNTech's vaccines require two doses separated by several weeks. Reactogenicity is typically higher after a second dose, Weissman says. The side effects “mean the vaccine is working well. … [It] means you had such a good immune response to the first dose and now you are seeing the effects of that,” he says.

“We suspect the lipid nanoparticle causes the reactogenicity, because lipid nanoparticles without mRNA in them do the same thing in animals,” Weissman says. “We see production, in the muscle, of inflammatory mediators that cause pain, [redness], swelling, fever, flulike symptoms, etc.”

Hutchison hopes better vaccines are on the way. Still, he says, “Given that COVID can kill or incapacitate people, everybody should bite the bullet and expect a rough night.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/370/6520/1022

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