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Dafey
3 hours ago, Chris24 said:

So I made up for it by adding 70% isopropyl and later 91% isopropyl, which of course is different than the ethanol in vodka and in hand sanitizer,  so I'm sure I violated several rules of both chemistry and nature in the process.

Sounds like a waste of perfectly good 'Snake Bite' medicine to me!

:ROFLMAO:

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Cgu

As slowly countries begin to reopen a lot of people question the actual figures (and the plus and minus side). The economist started to look at "excess deaths", which might be one of the most accurate estimates regarding deaths. Most western countries seem to have underestimate the death counts if they look at the 5 year average deaths. I believe in western countries it is quite a good indicator. They do not include the US itself, only New York City. The New York Times did a study as well and the excess deaths and it seems there is a under reporting of around around 25%.

 

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Dafey

What was your source @Cgu?

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Cgu
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Dafey said:

What was your source @Cgu?

Oh, just forgot, than you for reminding me :D

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries

The data is coming from github (I came across there):

https://github.com/TheEconomist/covid-19-excess-deaths-tracker

The US data comes from the NYT ( I do not know if there is free access there)

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

 

For 3rd world countries it might not be so accurate, as they might have died causes related due to the lock down (no access to emergency services, medicines etc.)

 

 

Edited by Cgu

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Soupeod

Getting confused, what’s the difference between this thread and below:

 

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Salty Dog
4 hours ago, Soupeod said:

Getting confused, what’s the difference between this thread and below:

 

The thread you quoted is for Philippines related COVID-19 info. If members are talking about personal accounts of COVID-19 and related issues in the Philippines, they should post in that thread.

This thread is for general COVID-19 discussion and elsewhere around the world. 

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onemoretry

Im in Sweden that have the worst goverment ever who think they better then the rest of the world how to fight the new covid 19... As we in nordic country escape our homeland during the cold dark winter season I know a few that was really afraid to go back as normal in late april and may for the summer here . they all did everything to stay longer in the Phillipines...  As now no lockdowns ! super high rate of death compare of population...elderhomes specific because no restrictions or cover instructions .. No checks on internationals flights especially from Italy when hell broke loose.. and as now still direct flight from beijing arrives when hear about 2e outbreak...well I can continue for long but you welcome to switch place anytime with me... i wanna escape as soon as possible back to philli

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Dafey
14 hours ago, onemoretry said:

Im in Sweden that have the worst goverment ever who think they better then the rest of the world how to fight the new covid 19... As we in nordic country escape our homeland during the cold dark winter season I know a few that was really afraid to go back as normal in late april and may for the summer here . they all did everything to stay longer in the Phillipines...  As now no lockdowns ! super high rate of death compare of population...elderhomes specific because no restrictions or cover instructions .. No checks on internationals flights especially from Italy when hell broke loose.. and as now still direct flight from beijing arrives when hear about 2e outbreak...well I can continue for long but you welcome to switch place anytime with me... i wanna escape as soon as possible back to philli

I was reading that Sweden basically did nothing and hoped for 'Herd Immunity'! They have a huge dead pool because of this and half are the elderly in nursing homes that nobody tried to protect.

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DeedleNuts
5 hours ago, Dafey said:

I was reading that Sweden basically did nothing and hoped for 'Herd Immunity'! They have a huge dead pool because of this and half are the elderly in nursing homes that nobody tried to protect.

They're basically average for western EU and probably don't have any worries WRT a second or third wave. 

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Salty Dog
Quote

7 Things to Know About Hand Sanitizer

When to use it, how it works and why you shouldn't make it at home

by Rachel Nania, AARP, June 12, 2020

woman outside rubbing hand sanitizer on her hands, the bottle of sanitizer sitting in front of her

 

One of the best ways to prevent a coronavirus infection is to wash your hands with soap and water — and when soap and water aren't available, public health experts say alcohol-based hand sanitizer is the next best option.

But just how effective are gels and sprays when it comes to getting rid of dangerous germs, such as the coronavirus? Here are seven things you should know about hand sanitizer.

1. Hand sanitizer kills germs but doesn't clean your hands

Soap and water reign supreme when it comes to infection control, but believe it or not, soap and water do not kill germs; they remove them. The duo's effectiveness boils down to the mechanics of handwashing.

The rubbing and scrubbing of soap between your palms and fingers creates friction that breaks down the structure of the bacteria and loosens the germs from your skin, explains Maryanne McGuckin, an infection prevention specialist and author of The Patient Survival Guide: 8 Simple Solutions to Prevent Hospital- and Healthcare-Associated Infections. When you rinse your hands under water, you wash those germs down the drain.

Alcohol-based hand sanitizers, on the other hand, do kill germs on the skin — most germs, anyway. Hand sanitizer is less effective at killing Cryptosporidium, norovirus and Clostridium difficile, all of which cause diarrhea, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) says. Scientists suspect hand sanitizer does, however, kill the coronavirus.

Hand sanitizers also don't work as well if your hands are visibly dirty or greasy, and they may not remove harmful chemicals such as pesticides and heavy metals like lead.

2. Sanitizer trumps soap and water in certain situations

Because handwashing — when done properly — is better at getting rid of germs and grime, hand sanitizer, for the most part, should be used as a backup to soap and water. “The time to use hand sanitizer is when you can't get to a sink and some clean water and a clean towel,” says Elaine Larson, professor emerita of epidemiology at Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health and a scholar in residence at New York Academy of Medicine.

That said, the CDC recommends using hand sanitizer as a first choice in certain situations, such as before and after visiting a friend or loved one in a hospital or nursing home. (That's why you'll often see dispensers posted directly outside patient rooms.) A squirt of hand sanitizer on your way in and out reduces the likelihood you'll introduce a dangerous bug or leave with one. It's also a good idea to use hand sanitizer regularly when interacting with people who have weakened immune systems, Larson says.

3. Not all hand sanitizers are equal

To kill most disease-causing germs, the CDC recommends using a hand sanitizer that contains at least 60 percent alcohol. Anything less than that may not work as well “for many types of germs,” and could “merely reduce the growth of germs rather than kill them outright,” the CDC says.

When searching the shelves, you may come across hand sanitizers that contain benzalkonium chloride instead of alcohol. These products, however, are not recommended by the CDC, since “available evidence indicates benzalkonium chloride has less reliable activity against certain bacteria and viruses” compared to alcohol-based sanitizers.

4. Sanitizing technique matters

Hand sanitizer works best when used correctly. Apply the recommended amount to the palm of your hand (make sure it's enough to cover the entire surface of both hands) and distribute the sanitizer all over, paying special attention to the fingertips, “because that's where you touch most other things,” Larson says.

Continue rubbing the hand sanitizer into your hands until your skin is completely dry — it should take about 20 seconds. This step is key, both Larson and McGuckin say.

"The alcohol works and it does kill the virus and most bacteria, but the problem that we have … is that people don't use it appropriately for the given period of time,” McGuckin adds.

infographic showing a series of nine diagrams demonstrating proper hand hygiene
COURTESY WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION

5. Cleaning products are not a substitute for hand sanitizer

Disinfectant sprays and antibacterial cleaning wipes should not be used as stand-ins for hand sanitizer. These products are meant for “hard, nonporous surfaces,” not human skin, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) says.

Even so, some people are using them this way. A report released by the CDC in early June found that approximately one-third of adult respondents in a recent survey engaged in “nonrecommended high-risk practices” with cleaning supplies in an effort to prevent a coronavirus infection. These practices included using bleach on food products, applying household cleaning and disinfectant products to skin, and inhaling or ingesting cleaners and disinfectants — all of which are unsafe.

6. Hand sanitizer can be dangerous

Hand sanitizer can be toxic when ingested, especially by children. It can irritate the lining of the throat and cause gastrointestinal issues. And “drinking only a small amount” can cause alcohol poisoning in kids, according to the FDA. If you or your child ingests hand sanitizer, call poison control or a medical professional immediately.

Hand sanitizer is also flammable. Though the CDC says the incidence of fires due to alcohol-based hand sanitizer is “very low,” it advises hospitals, nursing homes and other health care facilities to store hand sanitizer in a safe manner away from sources of ignition. The U.S. Postal Service also has restrictions on shipping alcohol-based hand sanitizer through the mail due to flammability concerns.

7. Homemade hand sanitizer can be ineffective

There's no shortage of recipes for homemade hand sanitizer on the internet during this pandemic era. But the FDA, which regulates hand sanitizers, says it's best to leave the production of germ-killing gels to the professionals.

"If made incorrectly, hand sanitizer can be ineffective, and there have been reports of skin burns from homemade hand sanitizer,” the agency says.

Also: Adding rubbing alcohol to a bottle of non-alcohol hand sanitizer will not make the sanitizer more powerful. The FDA says it “is unlikely to result in an effective product.”

https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2020/hand-sanitizer.html

 

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SkyMan
Posted (edited)

I use a mix of bleach, ammonia, and muriatic acid.  I like the smell and the tingle.

Edited by SkyMan

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HongKongPhooey
Posted (edited)

#8 Men should not apply to hands before a visit to the urinal.

source: guy who did that and didn’t enjoy the tingling sensation.

Edited by HongKongPhooey
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SkyMan

This is interesting about the rise of cases in the US.  I don't know anything about the reliability of PJ Media.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2020/06/29/dont-be-fooled-recent-coronavirus-data-suggests-the-lockdowns-were-a-colossal-mistake-n586155?fbclid=IwAR1Dq-1KYbJrInU8wnPXETIL61HwQJbUzAWJDv95PKHs_nEjdu3LxQCFiv0

Quote

Don't Be Fooled, Recent Coronavirus Data Suggests the Lockdowns Were a Colossal Mistake

In various states across the nation, there’s been a noticeable trend of an increase in coronavirus cases. While this fact makes the headlines, the detail that seems to get overlooked is the fact that deaths have declined. Florida, Arizona, Texas, California, and Ohio are among the states that have experienced spikes in cases but have maintained declining death rates or no spike in deaths.

How is this possible? Conventional wisdom suggests that a spike in cases should result in a spike in deaths, but that has not panned out. The protests and riots following George Floyd’s death have been going on for nearly a month now. Surely a spike in deaths should shave occurred by now. But so far, it hasn’t. 

Why not? 

According to Justin Hart, an information architect and data analyst from San Diego, “who” gets the virus is just as important as “how many” get the virus. “Right now the average age of infected cases has dropped nearly 20 years,” Hart told PJ Media. 

White House Coronavirus Task Force Member Dr. Anthony Fauci acknowledged this fact last week: “The overwhelming majority of people who are now getting infected are young people, like the people that you see in the clips in the paper or out in the crowds enjoying themselves.”  

Why does this matter, you ask? Let me explain.

Coronavirus data says risk is low for most Americans

Young people, possibly from the recent protests and riots, are likely behind the recent spike in cases, and that tells us a lot about why the data looks the way it does right now. According to the CDC’s current best estimate, the fatality rate of the coronavirus for symptomatic cases only are as follows:

0-49 years old: .05%

50-64 years old: .2%

65+ years old: 1.3%

Overall ages: .4%

When you take into account that approximately 30% of coronavirus infections are asymptomatic, that drives the fatality rate down even further. “The risk of death for the general population of school and working age is typically in the range of a daily car ride to work,” notes Josh Ketter on Medium.

Professor Mark Woolhouse, an expert in infectious diseases in Scotland, led a study that determined current lockdown restrictions could be easily lifted as long the most vulnerable populations are left protected. According to Woolhouse, for the non-vulnerable population, the coronavirus is comparable to a “nasty flu.”

Lockdowns should have focused on protecting the vulnerable

What the data is clearly telling us is that the lockdowns were not implemented correctly. While there is a significant risk for the older, at-risk population, for those under 65 years of age, the economy could have been kept open. Schools didn’t have to close down, and “non-essential” businesses could have continued to serve the public, many of whom had as much a chance of dying from the coronavirus as they did dying on their daily commute, but the lockdowns kept everyone, including the young and healthy, at home. We could have worn masks out in public to help slow the spread and flatten the curve to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. Life could have remained relatively normal, and the economy didn’t have to suffer the way it did. 

“We knew early on that younger cohorts managed very well,” Hart explained to PJ Media. “We should have let that group thrive to keep the economy going while protecting the vulnerable.” 

Protecting the vulnerable is where many, particularly New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, went wrong. On March 25, Cuomo ordered nursing homes to accept patients regardless of their coronavirus status. Even back then, it was known that the elderly were more vulnerable to the virus, so having coronavirus patients in nursing homes allowed the virus to spread like wildfire. Cuomo tried to cover up his deadly mistake before ultimately rescinding the order on May 11. 

Nursing home patients represent a mere .46 percent of the United States population but account for approximately 43 percent of all coronavirus deaths. States should have protected them better from the beginning. Had they, we could have had a more strategic approach to the coronavirus lockdowns that allowed businesses and schools to stay open while quarantining the vulnerable.

The one-size-fits-all approach was a mistake

If school and working-age Americans understood that their risk of dying from the coronavirus was roughly the same as it is of dying during a daily car ride, do you think they’d want to continue the lockdowns? I don’t think so. Whether people realize it or not, every day they are making an assessment of risk as they go about their lives. It was true before the coronavirus, during it, and it will continue to be afterward. Is it really worth being afraid of living given the extremely low risk of fatality for a majority of the population? We should redirect resources to protecting the vulnerable and let the rest of us get this country working again.

The United States isn’t alone

Israel is also experiencing a second wave of cases that is mostly occurring in younger people. Israel did not experience the protests and rioting we had in the United States, but bars, beaches, and school reopened, causing a spike in cases, but, as you can see from the graphs from Worldometer, no spike in deaths.

Note: This post has been updated with new information.

 

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Ozepete

When there is so much evidence of how to contain the virus from countries that have vastly different (smaller) infection rates, why is there so much difficulty in countries with huge rates, following what they can learn from those successful?  Is it a pride thing or what? Find out what worked for successfull countries and apply that... not rocket science surely! 

All of Oz got shut down and well policed with heavy fines for violators.  Even state borders closed.  No one can fly / sail into Oz without going into state run quarantine for at least 2 weeks and passing tests otherwise stay locked up. Our leaders actually acted quickly and observed / applied the successful practices of several SE Asia countries. 

This full on action has all but eradicated the virus with restrictions now gradually being removed. We've got footy again and can travel around, thank God! Expecting all back to normal soon except still no country border entry from overseas.  Stopping all border free people movement is essential. 

The interesting thing is the test results and origins tracking which they are doing with every case. The vast majority of new cases were tracked back to persons entering the country and therefore the controlled state quarantine of all arrivals including Aussies returning from o/seas was enforced further.

It's been tough for many but worked. A short period with total involvement seems to be the answer, short of a vaccine. 

Edited by Ozepete
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Dafey
4 hours ago, SkyMan said:

In various states across the nation, there’s been a noticeable trend of an increase in coronavirus cases. While this fact makes the headlines, the detail that seems to get overlooked is the fact that deaths have declined. Florida, Arizona, Texas, California, and Ohio are among the states that have experienced spikes in cases but have maintained declining death rates or no spike in deaths.

How is this possible? Conventional wisdom suggests that a spike in cases should result in a spike in deaths, but that has not panned out. The protests and riots following George Floyd’s death have been going on for nearly a month now. Surely a spike in deaths should shave occurred by now. But so far, it hasn’t.

The recent spikes are predominantly younger Americans that thought since the government opened up it was cool to go out and party, protest and practice social closeness again.

The older folks are, (I dare say), a little wiser and are waiting for this to happen, or not before they jump back into society.

When the young ones bring the virus back to Grandma we'll see the death rate rise again....wait on it...

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